Well, I don't know the specifics of ZC's programming, but I know some basics to think(keyword: THINK) that certain features like an enemy editor wouldn't be too hard, like in the case of said enemy editor, I can only assume that the behavior for each enemy is hard-coded into the program, and an editor would just be acess to said hard-coding.
Crunch Time
Saffith wrote:Heh, I didn't know you were down, too. I'm recovering from a hard drive crash, myself. Shouldn't keep me down more than another day or two, but still. Clearly, we're just not meant to get it done this year.Well, this version should be pretty much finished, feature-wise, but we can always have suggestions for the next version. The Beta Suggestions board would still seem to be the appropriate place for those if they're related to features introduced in 2.5.
i never said to STOP people from making suggestions... i said to make it so you cant suggest TILL the new 2.5 is out... then re-enable the suggestion areas.... or atleast this is what i meant.
elise wrote:Look whats happening at this moment with ZC .......The zelda questbase is down for almost a year .........the 2.10 bugfree version everybody asked for and could be done in only a short time ( that was what was told ) never heard from it again ...............the beta releases are filled with bugs and new features constantly.............. so questmakers stop making quests .......what will we have at the end ...........maybe sometime there will be a new stable release but no questmakers around to make a quest and no players cause there is never a new quest in the questdatabase .........We can't blame the developers they do it all in their free time .........we can't blame the questmakers everytime they work on a quest they can throw half away what they made because of a new release that messes up all the work they have done till then............we can't blame the players they found other games to play because there is nothing new to gain here ..............No we can't blame nobody but it's still a sad process to see happening :shrug:
elise has a strong point here. Much of the interest in the site has dwindled. With the main site in shambles, the quest database not active anymore and not being run. Why should anyone be interested in it anymore. When I first came here and started messing with ZC, the main site was perfectly fine. In fact, it's WHY I joined. Now it's a total shame. Does anyone know what happened to Eckels? He WAS fixing it, then he disappeared again before he finished it and now it's a mess. And now rumor has it that the mirrors aren't working either.
As for ZC itself. I agree with Freedom. I think too many features were jammed into this new version already. It's nice to see new stuff, but when is enough, enough? It gets very frustrating when you're working a quest and have to wait for a fix because something isn't working right. I have a quest now that can't be released because of the combo cycling issue and it's very frustrating. I honestly think it's time to stop adding more features and stick to what we already have. Adding more will only bring more bugs to be fixed and a longer wait time on a stable release.
I have total faith in the devs of ZC and expect good things from them. But Freedom is right. If you look at the boards, people are starting to get irritated at ZC because of all the flaws. Then you get the ones like Freedom here and just retire. I don't mind messing around with the new stuff and finding the errors, but can't we just stick to what we already have?
I say the devs should do the following things in this order.
1.FREEZE FRAME. That means stop adding new features. What's there now can stay. but NO MORE.
2.KILL ALL BUGS. Wipe them out, all of them.
3.MAKE STABLE RELEASE. A new bug free version would make many people happy.
4.START WORK ON A NEW VERSION. Add all the mega crazy features that people want. 😉
I'm starting to get a little fed up as well. Not angry at anybody or anything, but losing inspiration. Its hard to test a quest with Wizzrobes when your magic shield don't want to work. Or test a quest that uses the raft when that isnt operating. I look forward to seeing a bug free version, but do I have to rely on cryogenics in order to endure the wait for that?
I've had the same problem, so I've taken to planning out every aspect of my quest in excruciating detail. Not only does it pass the time, but over the iterations,I belive I've really improved my quest. Not that I'm saying that that we can delay the release forever or anything, and we do need something to attract members.
Don't plan every detail of your quest out yet... or when a new item comes out you'll have no place to put it.
I agree with Bigjoe.
He also brings to light something else that's been bothering me.
Some of these bugs seem to be operating system specific.
I've had no trouble with the combos (cycling or otherwise) or the mirror shield, and some of the problems I've had didn't seem to be a problem for others.
It's going to take some time to sort those out.
something i didnt think of is that they will keep the engine in a state that can be easily updated... so if people keep making suggestions then the devs will know how to design the engine for maximizing future upgradeability... this is also possible why its taking a while to make a stable release... yes they can make it not upgradeable AND stable or they can not make it upgradeable yet still be stable.
Yeah, Bigjoe has a good point...
if the bugs aren't fixed we can't continue our quests, b15 has some fatal bugs like the raft bug and not being able to go up in sidescroller rooms.
My level 2 is meant to have the raft there... also it needs the sidescrolling mode passageways.
So just stop adding the new features and focus on smashing the bu-bug-bgg-bu-g-g-g-gs.
I'd rather have beta 16 have a lot of fatal bugs from b15 than have a lot of new features that have a side effect - spawning antlions that render quests obsolete. My emphasis is that it's more important to smash ALL bugs, regardless of size and/or severity. What do you want more? An enjoyable game with very few/no bugs, or a game with lots of bugs because it was rushed?
Though that very few bugs that are fatal/game-stopping are the antithesis of very few bugs/inconsistencies that are of no harm, I'd rather have Zelda Classic be free of bugs before adding new items. Take your time, smash ALL bugs that spawned in b15, and fix the ones that appeared prior to b15, then release beta 16. Please quit adding new features, and let beta 16 be a major bugfix edition. (about time we have one)
I want to see only bug fixes now. No new features anymore you foolis zc makers!! 😞
Notice how the devs stopped responding here. Maybe we should wait and see what happens after New Years. :P (because nothing is obviously going to happen before that.)
Actually, I stopped responding cause I won't have consistent internet until the 29th :P
Anyway, as a status update, the enemy editor is 95% done. It and the enemies need to be tested THOROUGHLY in the next beta, though we'll make sure on our end that the editor and the enemies are as stable as possible before we put it in your hands.
The more advanced string editor is also coming, _L_ seems to be working hard on that based on the code here, although he would give a better status report on that than I could.
After that and MAYBE an item set editor, that's it; no more new big features. Maybe a couple of little ones, and perhaps finishing of unfinished features, but nothing major after that.
Awesome to hear about an enemy editor. It was way overdue. I'll be testing it madly, since its the one thing I've wanted the most for YEARS.
I guess it's okay to work on new features since there is now a more stable 2.10. I'd still like to see a new bug free release soon though, and I think the you developers are capable of that.
Luck with the internets, jman.
So what about the yet-to-be-implemented Floormaster and Z3 style Moldorm? What about the Subscreen features that aren't implemented yet? What of those "Unused" combo types? Will all of those be left in there come 2.5?
bigjoe wrote:Awesome to hear about an enemy editor. It was way overdue. I'll be testing it madly, since its the one thing I've wanted the most for YEARS.
I guess it's okay to work on new features since there is now a more stable 2.10. I'd still like to see a new bug free release soon though, and I think the you developers are capable of that.
I have to admit I'd really like the enemy editor too.
The 2.10.1 is worse than the 2.10 at this point, I'd wait for another round of testing on it before calling it "more stable". 😉
Oh, didn't really read up on that. I guess I didn't notice anything since I usually dont use the cheat menu when playing other peoples quests. Or since I didnt try any spc music. But at least its being worked on. And when there IS a bug free 2.10 , that should be able to hold us over until the new release😉
I was trying to use the cheat in testing my own. 😉
The slow down when a screen has 4 or more layers is probably a bigger problem, it literally slows to a crawl.
Hmm. Probably one of my worst habits with quest building is that I literally test every last screen in the player to make sure every last little thing works. It slows down my quest building by about a hundred times. Same thing when I'm programming. Then again, there are no real bugs.
A question, was 2.10.1 just coded and not tested at all before release? That's what seems to have happened...
jman2050 wrote:The more advanced string editor is also coming, _L_ seems to be working hard on that based on the code here, although he would give a better status report on that than I could.
Things that have yet to be made:
* The "Signpost" combo.
* A way for scripts to produce message strings.
* Choices (Yes/No etc. May not have time for this.)
* Fonts (that is, selecting them.)
* Translucent text frames. (Harder than I thought...)
* Ability to make your file's name appear in strings ("So your name is ALPHA, eh?"😉
* Possibly an easier way to add control codes to strings than by typing arbitrary numbers. (Maybe arbitrary two-letter abbreviations?)
Apart from that, it's plain sailing!
Revfan9 wrote:A question, was 2.10.1 just coded and not tested at all before release?
To be blunt, yes. ZC 2.10.1 could technically be called a beta. It was put out there for everyone to find bugs that needed killing.
but what's confusing is now we have two things to test for in killing bugs: 2.10.1 and 2.11 beta 15/16. So which one is more important, which one is going to get the royal treatment? I thought 2.11 was the version that we were all aiming to make a full public 2.5 release with. But now it seems that's dashed and we're just working on 2.10.1 to satisfy the masses. Well, my latest quest won't work anymore with 2.10, its only compatible with 2.11 betas and above. So I'm not sure what this means for the future of my quest making. Or is DN working on 2.10.1 to get bug free and the rest of the devs are working on 2.11, beta 16? I'm very confused here.
I think DN is making a bug free version of 2.10 while the other devs continue with the new version. This way we have a stable version that doesn't have all the extra baggage of the new versions, and is fully compatible with all quests that 2.10 or below.
Signpost combo! Yay! Erm, that IS a 'press-A-to-read' combo, right?
Maybe even a "Press-A-while-facing-to-read" signpost combo? It would look kinda weird if someone was reading a sign that's behind them.
Maybe add a person combo; it's like an eyeball combo, only you can "talk" to it. Or it could be like a signpost only it faces you. Wait, you could fake it by using an eyeball combo, and a signpost.
What about just a plain old "display string" and "display string (press A)" combos?
Not to sound like a broken record, but I agree with most of the people here: finish what you're working on before releasing 2.5. Don't go for the Dec. 31st deadline; this is the worst time of the year to try to rush things.
Bug test, bug test, bug test. We want something stable if we're going to be using it as a primary version all year.
Also, I'm sure nobody remembers/cares about the question, but I wanted to point out that I only made Classic jumping tiles, not charge tiles.