Crunch Time

Hey, other developers, here are some long-standing bugs that I have no idea how to fix:

* Smart scrolling walkability detection bug!
* NES movement move-while-charging bug.
* Charging Link sprites don't animate in-game!
* Script bug #1: 'this' can't be used in functions (solved by making it so that 'this' always points to the FFC running the script.)
* Script bug #2: multiple instances of one script causes problems with variables.
* Mac OS X tile paste crash.
* Mac OS X fullscreen->windowed crash.

Also, the following features are unimplemented:

* Cane of Byrna's orbiting magic.
* L2 Amulet.
* When "More Sounds" is checked, the Lens of Truth sound effects play when the Lens is toggled on or off.
* More String Editor stuff. (I'm doing this.)

Also, we're going to need to have:

* Default jumping and charging Link tiles in the appropriate dat file.
* Default enemy tiles in for all of the new enemies in the appropriate dat file.
* Default item tiles for all of the new items.
* Default effects tiles for Nayru's Love, Cane of Byrna, Hover Boots and Fire Magic.
* Default sound effects for WAV_ZN1DINSFIRE and WAV_ZN1FARORESWIND.
* An updated zquest.txt.

P.S: What a coincidence... I'm moving house this week as well.

Default jumping and charging Link tiles in the appropriate dat file.

Default item tiles for all of the new items.

jman2050 wrote:Can we make it before the end of the year? Now I'm not so sure.

I'll say it again: TAKE YOUR TIME. Focus on making 2.5 the best release ever, and not on pressuring yourselves to do as much as you can as quick as you can with a deadline you yourselves set. I seriously doubt it's even possible you'll get all the bugs before December 31, 23:59:59. Just don't even try

That said, I'd be happy to help with any graphics you may need for the upcoming release

I say take your time. Now that you said you were making the dialogue editor, I want it bad. Really, really bad I mean. Like so bad that I would throw a fit if it was not in 2.5 as I stopped EotM because I am waiting for it. Anyways, I promise that next time you make a beta release I will test the whole game of HoD and report any small bug. I couldn't test it on this beta because of the raft and mirror shield bug.

Anyways, take your time, I think February is a good looking date if there isn't anything big after the dialogue editor added. But I know you will release it before then. And I will be bug testing like crazy as I am almost done with my graphics update in EotM, so now I have time to test. :P

Shoelace wrote:I say take your time. Now that you said you were making the dialogue editor, I want it bad. Really, really bad I mean. Like so bad that I would throw a fit if it was not in 2.5 as I stopped EotM because I am waiting for it.

Well, there's really 2-4 parts to the dialogue editor as we imagine it:

1) The dialogue editor.
2) The combo type that displays a message when you press A next to it.
3) The as-yet unimplemented ZScript command void ShowMessage(int m).
4) The item property where you choose the string that is displayed when you pick up the item.

Right now, I've jiggered up the normal String Editor such that, by inserting obscure numerical codes and backslashes* (for example \1\5\12) within the string's text, you can change the text colour and text output speed of portions of the string itself. Also, some codes allow you to dynamically set Link's HP, magic and rupees, and play sound effects of your choice. Furthermore, you can pick the upper-left tile of a 2x2 frame for the string, and toggle the translucency. Additionally, you can pick the sound effect (normally SFX_MSG) that plays as each letter of the message is "typed".

What I have yet to do is make "If"-style codes that switch to another string if Link has or has not got an equipment item, some rupees, or something else. Also, decisions (yes/no choices) might be a bit too much work.

Also, fonts. Because many of the fonts have different widths and heights, you can't switch fonts within a string itself. (For what it's worth, I doubt any Zelda game allowed this either.) So, you can only choose one font for the whole string. Also, because many of the fonts have different widths and heights, it's likely that the number of characters per line will change if you use a different font. Thus, it's going to be a bit tricky to implement.

I have decided not to implement scrolling textbox text on the basis that only four Zelda games have it: Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, and the Oracles. In all of the others, the textbox text never scrolls. You may not immediately believe this, but see for yourself!

Lastly, positioning. There doesn't seem to be any point to altering the X position of a string, so only the Y position of the string can be altered.

* This is because I wanted the markup codes to take up as little space within the string (as it is being edited) as possible. Rest assured that these codes will be copiously documented.

P.S: What does EotM stand for? "Eyes of the Medusa", a quest that blends Miyamoto's Hyrulean mythos with the legends of ancient Greece? Or "Egg of the Monkey", a retelling of Journey to the West in Zelda format?

P.P.S: I, being both youthfully energetic and highly ambitious, would quite like to break the "2.5 in time for Jan 1" promise that someone made.

I'm a bit torn here... 😛

I don't want you guys to rush it, but I don't want to see it delayed by any more months either. A new stable ZC is just needed so badly.
Is it necessary to add a dialogue editor in to 2.5? Can't that wait? Or any other new features? Just finish the features that are unfinished and fix the bugs and there we have a perfectly fine and fantastic ZC. Sigh... can it be so hard??

Yeah, please don't rush it! We don't want a ZC 2.10 with just some new features, but still all the bugs!

*b* is right, take your time.

I would like to see ZC 2.5 on February 23, because that's my birthday 😃

I recommend focusing on smashing the bugs, for now.

Yeah, awesome I love you now because of the string editor. *drools* Anyways, about the font size in the same string, I don't mind, I don't think it is that big of deal, however, you it doesn't change font in any Zelda game. Wind Waker does though. :P Don't mind though. As long as you can change the color in the same string. So we can do OoT clues where the key words are in red and such.

Changing the colour would be alright to me...
When you open the string editor, it would say something like

"BUY SOMETHIN WILL YA!"

Then you could select a color from a small dropdown menu with colored lines, then just click to a letter and it will change the color. Then just click a button or something with "Return to string writing". Just my thoughts.

BTW, could it be possible to create strings with 4 lines?

Please don't cram. When it's out, it's out. Deadline = BUGS, BUGS, BUGS.
All I have to say is "stop adding new features by a deadline so you can zero in on the bugs, but still finish what you're working on."
I'm mostly willing to wait. Plus, Neofirst needs more time.

I still don't really see a reason to have this released by December. People can wait. They've got other things to do in the meantime. This is crunch time for schoolgoers as well, as this week is finals week for a lot of people, or midterms week. Conversely, it's also potentially a winter vacation (Christmas break?) for a lot of people, so they have time to test or build as well while others don't. Still, the point here is, there's no valuable purpose in rushing other than to say "Christmas = ZC's All Important Release!" If you released it in March or something, the only difference would be the date, a distinct lack of bugs, and people having more content in their quests to upgrade.

2.5 Released by Dec. 31 = Disaster

😞 That's about as good as I can put it. Seriously, you've only got about 2 weeks left before the end of the month. That may seem like plenty of time, but get this: EVERY SINGLE DAY GOES BY VERY QUICKLY THESE DAYS. It may SEEM like enough time, but when you factor in that 24 hours is up really quickly these days, you're left with one thing:

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FINISH 2.5 THIS YEAR. Speed is NOT of the essence this time. Quit rushing yourselves. Give the people what they ask for, like the Dialogue Editor. By the way, if you DO put a limited enemy editor into 2.5, please allow us to select what tiles the enemies will use when the rule "Use New Enemy Tiles" is checked. You don't know how much it bugs me that I can't use that rule in my CGBZ quests because I'd have to do a TON of moving tiles and combos because most of my tiles are on pages 6 and up... That, and Pure requires some movement, too. What's going to happen when the enemies require pages 6-100? People would have to do a WHOLE LOT of scrolling in certain tilesets just to get to their dungeon and overworld tiles if they decide to use all the enemies ZC has to offer.

As a fellow developer, I'm going to take the middle around and say that both sides have merits. It's good to set deadlines, and I set deadlines for myself all the time to keep the project going. At the same time, I think that deadlines should be targets for completion, and not something your life depends upon. I too am planning to issue a major release of my project around Christmas, and while I am on schedule, I still treat it like a target deadline. I won't die if I don't meet it, and instead, I just push it back by a little, let the people know what's going on (just like you are doing right here), and that's that. As long as the people are informed, there's no harm done.

So in the end, I think that you should strike a balance between taking your time to ensure quality and meeting personal deadlines. Nobody's entirely right or wrong here.

I still stand by my previous statement of setting the new goal to be the Chinese New Year.

I say, like all the others, to take your time. There really isn't any rush(Although I'd like to see it before, say, April) Quality trumps speed. I would also say that you should implement the new featurs BEFORE debugging, only because you may spend time wiping out bugs, only to discover that the new features open up a whole load of new ones. Best to do it all in one shot.

I just want it to work, that's it, while it would be nice to see it soon, if it doesn't work right, then what the hell is the point, besides, I am sure everyone who can is playing Twilight Princess anyways, and if they aren't well shame on them.

if you look at how jman worded it you will see he worded it so as to make the situation look drasticaly worse then what it really is and as such most people posting here in this thread are purely making him laugh... nuff said.

[SIZE="1"]By Lotus_Eater[/SIZE]
Besides, I am sure everyone who can is playing Twilight Princess.

Tygore wrote:I still stand by my previous statement of setting the new goal to be the Chinese New Year.

I say St. Patrick's day at the latest possible deadline, though. How about we use Chinese new year as a feature deadline. Then until St. Patrick's day, we (devs?) focus solely on bugs.

Lol, just let the developers decide the deadline okay? 😛

I still have to wonder what's the obsession with all these new features. Am I the only one who wants to see a full ZC release ASAP? What's wrong with ZC at its current state? Just fix the unfinished features/fix bugs and there's a brilliant new ZC for this year's end... or if still bugs remain at that time, then for beginning of 2007. Sigh...

Well, all I have to say here is, the more time they take, the more Lost Isle will be postponed. As it stands, Lost Isle is meant for the next generation of ZC versions, but cannot be played at this present moment in time with all these bugs. You'd have to cheat at this point just to play it completely because of inherent ZC bugs. So if 2.5 is being held off because of adding all these 'cool new features,' and bugs are still present, then Lost Isle must be held off too. Its unavoidable if that's the case. Lost Isle could technically be done by early next year, but if there isn't a solid bug-free ZC to run it off of, then we have no choice but to sit on it until there is one.

Wolfie, this is an important thread and all you talk about is LOST ISLE!?!?

Actually the Mana tileset I am working on is also dependant on the release of 2.5. Ah well. It's best to have it stable than have your game crash every 5 minutes. Now I am off to figure out how the heck to make a good custom subscreen.

Later,
Lotus

Imprisoned, Wolfie's post may seem like a selfish "I wanna see a release quick so I can release my quest" but I'm sure her point is that Zc is fine the way it is currently, so why add all those new damn features because that results in even more bugs and even more delays. hate to be so repetitive and I apologize for that, but even though the dialogue editor and features like that are awesome, why can't they wait? Just fix the current bugs and features and we have the best ZC release ever. There will be plenty of ZC versions after that so all those features that wouldn't make it to the 2.5 would surely make it to the next Zelda Classics.

I'm sure we all have our selfish agendas... some say "no need to hurry, take your time, I dont care when the new ZC is out because my quest wont be out in a long time" and then there are poeple who may say "hurry it so my quest can be released!!" but the most important reason I am crying for the stable ZC asap is that I just think ZC community badly needs one. If the devs decide to announce "okay, we will still add some features and release the full ZC whenever it is ready" it starts to seem like there will never be a stable Zc then, lol. 😛

I think they should implement all the new features before releasing 2.5 not because I want them, but because it rather defeats the purpose of a stable version to release it and then immediatly launch into beta testing/bug squashing for the next one. I thought one of the points of this was to have a version that could just sit for a while and be, give us all a breather. My opinion is to get the new features over with, release it, and TAKE A BREAK.

@ & With Petoe: Lots of stuff to agree and disagree with. Overall, I'd love to agree with you, but on nothing that's been said. Really, I think that now that some sort of release date has been introduced, it's no longer an issue of just adding more and more features to be all bugged in. (No offense. No grammar either. :blah: ) Since there's a release date set on the table which can be moved back as necessary, there actually -IS- a focus on bug squashing this time. Eliwood's post is a very good indicator of some sort of progress, as he stated a basic summation of the process. Hopefully the bug squashing will become the priority now that a release date is set. The more new features are introduced, the less likely that date will be met, so I'm sure we all know what the focus will be now.

Hopefully.

Okay, finish what we've all been waiting for, (dialogue, enemy and item editors) and then focus on the bugs.
And PLEASE, push back the deadline! I don't want a lame/buggy ZC.

The thing is, I am confident enough in my abilities and the abiliies of my companion developers to have a stable version of ZC out before the end of the year. I also have another reason for setting such a deadline, though many of you will probably be very unhappy at said reason.

Moving and vacation has been difficult for progress, but starting with he release of beta 16 (which will be soon), I'll ramp up my side of the development to incredible proportions. _L_ is doing he best he can, though I'm sure he wants an extended deadline (which right now, isn't happening). DN will also be doing the best he can once his hiatus is over. We're gonna be clicking on al cylinders, and though I can no longer GUARANTEE a New Year's release date, I can say it's pretty likely.

We need your help too though, which is why I made this topic in the first place. Instead, it became a place of petty bickering, with no one paying attention to said purpose of the topic. So instead of arguing about release dates, let me and DN and _L_ and every other developer argue about the merits of a New Year's release, while you all do what you're here to do and find some bugs and make sure quest compatibility is maintained. Doing anything else doesn't help us any.

Sorry if that sounded harsh, but I'm slightl stressed out right now

I say leave out the enemy and item editors for a long time. They'll make a lot of bugs because those are almost editors inside of editors. The dialogue editor would be ok, though. I really think bugs are more important than features though. Sure the smaller features can be added but adding item and enemy editors is way to much to ask for while still asking for no bugs.

EDIT: You posted 6 minutes before me and my post wasn't showing up until just now