Who wants a stable release?

As far as what I can see, there are things that should be done to speed up the release of 2.11/2.5. For instance, there are certain things that I see that are worth keeping for now, others aren't, as in this list:

~Things we don't need right now~
1. Z3 Animation. I say put this in the next beta after ZC 2.11/2.5 since it's too buggy and requires much more work to fully complete.

2. Complex features in the editors. One suggestion for this is the Subscreen Editor. Basic selections are fine, but do we need an unimplemented Selected Item->Tile? No. Keep these out of the list until fully functional.

3. Roc's Feather. Until adjusting Z variables(made a suggestion on that) and drowning is possible, it's just pretty and has little use. Its fate should reside with Z3 Animation, though.

~Things we do need~
1. The loud and clear statement that you do not need scripts to make a quest, and that it is an optional feature for advanced users. This scares beginners away from ZC most of the time.

2. An updated Zquest.txt file. Someone is working on that, right? Even more to boot, why not make a Zquest.hlp file as a second source?

3. "NES Style" quest rule. Recently the devs say that the bugs are mainly quirky NES inconsistencies... Why not make a quest rule that uses somewhat modified(updated for custom items and such) code from an earlier build that actually works like the original LoZ?

4.(For Alphas/Betas)"Bug Report List" txt file, updated when ZQ crashes or makes errors; reports exact point in the script where the beta crashes or errs in a txt file. For this, I say beta testers should keep this file open while working in ZQ, that way they know if an error is a bug or not. Definitely useful, but I don't know how this could work.

Anyone here agree?

Hm. Would it still be called "The finished Zelda Classic 2.5" if it had features that are obviously unfinished with no use? Is the human body "finished" with the Appendix in it? ... Just something to think about; it has no impact on anything either way. 😛

If we just stop finishing up the unfinished .. things, ... there are quite a few things which need to be removed before it can be considered "complete." At least for illusions' sake. Just so people don't download it and say "Hey, why doesn't this work?!! All the bugs are out!!!"

.. Actually, this would just mean that ZC 2.5 would be identical to Beta 403 in every way except for the lack of bugs. I guess that's what it'd mean. No finished Subscreen or item or enemy editor. Misc values would remain inoperable. There would just be no bugs associated with them, unless you consider the lack of functional prompts or checkboxes and such a bug.

Linkus, the Roc's feather works fine. What are you talking about?

And yeah, all of the unimplemented stuff in the Subscreen editor can wait, btu it should at least be removed, so no one says "Hey, how come this stuff isn't implemented?"

What I mean is that the very complex ones will be removed, ST. the editors would still be there, but it wouldn't be very flexible, since some options won't be there because they either are broken and still in early development or haven't been implemented at all yet. In case, fix most of the pestilent problems right now, then decide what suggestions should be added/removed for ZC 2.11 and later betas.

The Roc's Feather messes up when layers are used. And ALL good questmakers use layers, so the Roc's Feather is either A)not in the quest or B)disabled for 98% of the time. I say take it out until a Z-Axis is implemented.

I'm all for a stable release now. But, the devs shouldn't stop working on new features. Continue on, just put them in a 2.6 version. Or something. Just get it out!

What I mean is that the very complex ones will be removed, ST.

Amaster42 wrote:Linkus, the Roc's feather works fine. What are you talking about?

Has drowning/melting/falling into a pit been implemented yet? The original idea of Roc's Feather was to bypass certain hindrances, like water, lava, and pits, and reaching ledges(and enemies) in sidewivew areas.

Ebola Zaire wrote:
I'm all for a stable release now. But, the devs shouldn't stop working on new features. Continue on, just put them in a 2.6 version. Or something. Just get it out!

My thoughts exactly. ZC loses public interest because

A. No working QDB
B. Very long periods of time between releases.

If those two problems can be remedied, the community is sure to thrive again.

Okay, true, things around the Roc's feather need work. But the feather itself is good. And now that it looks like we might lose the feather, I would like to re-re-suggest my "1 feature build" idea, so I don't have to wait till 2010 for the feather and other items.

The Feather and Scripting stay IN. Everything else unfinished/buggy/not implemented can wait. I have MADE the feather functional in my quest. Heck, you START with it. Also, level 4 is HEAVILY dependant on scripting, and the boots are not in. How will the player get across large "gaps" of damage combos? With the feather, and Hover boots. If those are taken out, my whole quest goes down the drain. :|

Clean up scripting, optimize/add to it later. DEBUG everything. But certainly don't remove useful things. When Documentation arrives, the Newbies will look at scripting and laugh. So keep scripting and the Feather, otherwise 2.5 won't be here for a while.... because then ZC will be 2.3 if you remove those two things.

EDIT: Kudos to BigJoe for 5K posts! 😃

The feather is already in, no need to take it out just because features surrounding it dont work.

Okay, everyone knows, that I am a huge supporter of the bug-free 2.5. I been waiting for a hell of a long time for it. And lately, the developers been doing great.

But when you add those things like sidescroller, etc. there so going to be things you have to add, like ladders. Now that it is added, you have finish it as the feature wouldn't be finished. I know that will take longer to do, but it is already added, you have finish it as people are excepting it, and to me that is like a bug. As for new, new features, wait until after 2.5.

I just think that they have to finish the features that are planned, and then make it stable. I know that will take long. I know that there may be a chance that I may leave ZC before then, however, I don't want them to not finish things that people are expecting. But don't release it without being stable afterwards.

This is a hard choice, honestly.

I want both stability AND functionality. All the good features should be in AS WELL AS bug fixes.

Fix what needs to be fixed then finish off the planned stuff! It may take longer to iron out the bugs for it, but it will be complete. I don't want to see another case where some features are there, but they just doesn't do anything. (Longshot in 2.10) Anything other than what's been started or planned should just be left out until the next release.

Look here is what I think you should do

Finish

Bottomless Pits and Drowning
Sideview Stepladder
Choose fonts in the String Editor
Ladder combo

Compleat the changes to the eminey editor

Also I hear something about a custom item drop editer or something is this true (an editor that you can pick what emies drop on death (and what i meen is like hearts ruppies and so on)) and if so finish it

[SIZE="1"]also my spelling is bad because it is late where i live and I'm tired[/SIZE]

Also i can't vote in the poll yet (not enthoe postes)

Linkus wrote:
1. The loud and clear statement that you do not need scripts to make a quest, and that it is an optional feature for advanced users. This scares beginners away from ZC most of the time.

What's that high-pitched whine I'm hearing again? I've been hearing alot of it around these days... makes me feel oddly compelled to say:

1. Once a script is completed, applying it is no more complicated than setting up a Combo. Not everyone needs to script, but everyone can learn how to apply a script while knowing zilch about the script itself.
2. Supply and demand. As more people use scripts, more people will make them.
3. The more users are scripting, THE LESS NEED THERE IS FOR THE DEVS TO ADD NEW FEATURES. You want something new? Script it or ask someone to script it. I know scripters don't get to every suggestion in the ZScript Request forums, but most of them get done eventually.

Stop it with the script-phobia. No, you don't need to use it to make a great quest. Yes, it will add features to your quest. Learn to love it.

I cant vote on this poll either, but if I could I would vote for a stable release
before adding new features.

Edit; I dont want to code out any Incomplete features though.

Ditto for me.

Some of you act like the next release is the last one that ever going to happen.

Please make it as bug free as possible.😊

I agree that L made a massive mistake in that he added scripting and other stuff that set back a stable 2.11 beta 10b a fair bit.

i agree that darkdragon and others are currently putting a much greater focus on bug fixing.

L is starting to focus more on bug fixing.

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the thing i find at the moment annoying is that there is NO stable version, I CAN NOT PLAY OLD QUESTS PERFECTLY ! nor have i seen a decent quest be made with any of the alpha's, so i assume there are still plenty of bugs in zquest to piss off most people who know what there doing.

there IS documentation, however it is all over the forums in various places, and worst of all, you have to pay AGN if you want to be able to search the forums.

what happened to 2.10.2 and newer builds? we were promised i think a stable 2.10, what happened to it? no status update on it in months >.>

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EDIT: whats the point in finishing it if the people that DO make decent quests are 90 years old by the time a stable version is made? no offense intended for all the mediocre quest makers intended.

okay here we go again , we really need a stable version and we need it soon , questmakers don't make quests anymore they are all waiting , players can't even download a quest anymore here ( I know that's up to warlord but Dark Nation is also an admin here and maybe he can convince him how important it is we tried several times but failed ) I know we still can download quests from PureZc but really that isn't a Questdatabase like the one we have here .......if you like it or not here is the big Zelda gang coming for everything , and what do they find at this moment nothing .
So PLEASE make a stable release so questmakers can start making quests again
, Please warlord make that questdatabase so we can get the programs and quests again without going through all kind of tricks to get them , and when thats all done and everybody is happy again go and make other stable versions with new adds in it

I say fix all the bugs, don't add anything new, and just release it. We don't need any new features, alls we need is a stable engine to make our Zelda games on, and to play these games too.

I'm more neutral-- leaning towards stability, but I picked features... Could you switch my vote?

We need a few features-- finish the ones that were started at least a month ago (except drowning!), finish off the signpost combos (maybe), finish implementing anything unfinished in ZScript... But other than that, BUGFIXES ONLY!!!!!

Or we could just stop now and bugfix and call it 2.40. I can live with what we have for a while. If we stop now, it's no doubt not the final version.

I hate all of the 1.92 and 2.10 bugs!

Okay, all PureZC members that wanted to vote here but couldn't should be able to do so now. However, to prevent poll skewing, please make a note in the PureZC thread about this poll:

http://www.purezc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29136

However, for those that have created an account here for voting purposes, only people with 50 or more posts at PureZC will be counted.

As I've been saying a thousand times already and to answer the poll question: Halt with the new stuff and fix the damned bugs! Not a single new thing added or ZC will never be stable + this questmaker will pull all his support from ZC. Period.

Ok, I voted now, I picked

Release - Complete feature halt / reversion. Bugs fixes are the only work allowed.

Dark Nation, L, Koopa, DarkDragon, and anyone else who might be developing.

With all due respect, what you guys are doing and have done is deeply appreciated.

There are two things however that have come to be a sore spot with me and I'm sure others.

1) the many times my quest (s) have become corrupted from upgrading to a new beta, FFC's getting wiped out, subscreens turning to crap, etc.

The only way I can make progress in my quest and feel safe in doing so is to keep building in 2.11b10b or another earlier build, and just ignoring the new builds, OR be a full time tester and ignore my quests.

2) Not really being informed about progress.
Sure I can see in the channel log what bugs have been fixed, but I don't know how many are still being added, or any time frame of WHEN they (bugs) will stop being added, and seeing the same bugs come back time and time again is a real pisser.

THIS is why I've been so insistent on a stable release.
My tileset I built while waiting on a stable release was done in 2.10, there's no taking it back to 183 without just redoing it all, and 2.10 isn't suitable to use anyway, in addition I've moved up to 2.11b10b so going back to 2.10 even if DN finished doing a 2.10.3 isn't much of an option either.

I don't mind beta testing one bit, but I do mind when it becomes ALL I can do because I can no longer work on my quest because of fear of one of the betas destroying it again.

Do you realize how many times I've added and then removed things like true arrows, or scrolls, or subscreens to go back and forth with these betas?
It's a total waste of time, and it removes all the JOY from dealing with this program.

All these features added by L as of late are a nice thing, but where they all necessary before a stable release which is causing builders like myself such frustration?
I don't believe so, but I'm just one opinion of many.
If there's some reason that I'm not aware of to keep postponing a stable release, by all means let me know and I'll stop asking for it.

I'm gonna say the same thing here as I said at PureZC: LET THE DEVELOPERS FINISH WHAT THEY STARTED. They agreed upon a plan as to what features should be worked on and implemented in 2.5, and are trying to meet that goal with steady and definative progress. If mistakes were made in the past, it is exactaly that, the past. Constantly whining about it does absolutely NO good whatsoever. You want a stable version rushed out, well think back to 2.10, wasn't that rushed out? As far as the argument "well once they finish these new features, they're just gonna keep adding more, more, more" I don't think that is the case. It's been argued too many times, and I think the Devs are working on getting everything together and trying to make b18 as bugfree as possible. From what i've read the enemy re-jiggering is almost done, the message, item, and string editor have few bugs, along with Zscript. Why work so hard to rush out an incomplete 2.5? I also realize this post will be subject to counter-posts and random bashings with pointy sticks, But I have to side with the developers here, they have an intamate knowledge of coding ZC, and if they believe a stable beta is not far off I will believe them. Thus I propose three things:

1) A stable 2.10.3 -DN is this still progressing? I too would love to see a stable 2.10

2) Not rushing out and a massive bugfix b18 and making it a quest designers dream.

3) No newer new features beyond that which is being ironed out.

-Therefore I have to vote 1: finish the features as planned, don't half-ass anything.

-N

The developers agreed on a stable release last year too.

As for constantly whining, I've only returned to this board twice now in the last 6 months for two short periods of a couple of days, so I don't think asking for a stable release is whining, or do I think it's been constant.
You seem to be a new hog here, so I can understand you not minding the wait, I was that way for my first few years too, now I want something stable I can just use and release quests with.
If that's not going to happen any time soon, then all I want is for them to be honest and say so, if finishing up what is there now isn't months or years away again, then they can say that too.

http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/announcement.php?f=149

Freedom wrote:As for constantly whining, I've only returned to this board twice now in the last 6 months for two short periods of a couple of days, so I don't think asking for a stable release is whining, or do I think it's been constant.

I was more referring to the constant bashing over the head with a nerf bat of _L_, Whom many point the finger at. Which doesn't help matters any and isn't going to make 2.5 get done any faster, so I see no point in it.