blue_knight wrote:Jman, I just wanted to let you know (and everyone else too) that the script speed is MUCH better now. I've seen cases where the performance literally doubled, now that's a nice improvement 😊
Ah yes, the fix to the execution speed of scripts. I can say that it took a whole night for him to work that one out (profilers are a must!), and hopefully that sort of performance issue won't crop up again.
Amaster42 wrote:urrrrARGHHHHH...STOP IT JMAN, you always do this. It's DRIVING ME INSANE. And you Revfan, consorting with him. I expected better of you than to leave your fellow quest makers in the dark when you have a tantalizing secret. Your both enjoying this, arent you? Argghh, JMan, you and your stupid little "A revolution is coming" fetish.
Sorry, I'm sword to secrecy :P
Revfan9 wrote:Sorry, I'm sword to secrecy :P
Yes, "sword" :laughing:
While I like surprises, I hate being left in the dark for a while. Why do you always do this sort of thing to us, jman? Do you even ENJOY tormenting us like that?
Actually, I am sword to secrecy. He's holding it to the back of my neck right now. Send help.
And yes, we do like tormenting you like this. We did it for a whole summer with Beta 11, and we're gonna do it again.
*has no idea why I am reffering to the devs as "we"*
pikaguy900 wrote:Yes, "sword" :laughing:While I like surprises, I hate being left in the dark for a while. Why do you always do this sort of thing to us, jman? Do you even ENJOY tormenting us like that?
Because if he told the public about it, he would be committing to have it done (or risk disappointing the fans, knowing what that feature was), whereas keeping it secret just leaves you wondering what it could have been if he doesn't follow through.
A lot of developers do this, myself included, just to cover our backs in case something doesn't pan out like we'd like.
...And also for his own enjoyment...
Keeping something big a secret, in case it doesn't work out I can understand.
But he deliberatly drops little hints just to drive us mad. :banghead:
I was told, but was NEVER sworn to secrecy so I guess I can blab it, but a disclaimer first: THIS IS IN NO WAY GOING TO BE ADDED FOR SURE. If it doesn't work out, it will get removed. So just because I said it here doesn't mean its going to happen! They are simply just experimenting. REALIZE THAT. Anyway, Z3 scrolling. Its a nice idea, but in all actuality, I'm afraid of the new bugs that could arise from this feature. But like everyone has said in this thread, if this totally gets nuked and fails and bugs the ZC engine to all holy hell, we're back to 16c and starting over again. So don't hold your breath over this feature.
Aww... Thanks for ruining the fun DFW!
I personally advocate the reasoning that its better for people to know what you're doing and then have it not work out, than be in secret. At least then we know you're still actually doing something to better the game engine. For example, I'd like daily posts by devs about the bugs they squashed that day. That would be a good POSITIVE thing contributed to these boards. That way everyone could visually see and get re-affirmed time after time that some thing was being done. And as for new features, let people know, that way people can discuss it and its potential ramifications with bugs introduced into the engine. Personally, Z3 scrolling is an excellent idea, but at the cost of many potential bugs thus pushing back stable 2.5 until late 2007? We have to weigh these consequences. Why keep that a secret?
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Let's just get back to fixing bugs so if another attempt is made at implementing it in 2.5, we won't have to worry about fixing every other bug at the same time. It's already swamped enough as it is.
I'm *VERY* interested in seeing Z3 Scrolling. Moreso than even I could've ever imagined. This is particularly due to that amazing Parallel Worlds hack in GGD quite a few forums up from here. (Not to mention the Z3 engine as a whole. Man oh man, what an awesome force they would be.) But we just really have to focus on fixing the bugs that are already present before doing anything major like this. Even if it could be reverted back to 16c, .. or even if it could be finished flawlessly, (Which would be as amazing as seeing a double-headed Unicorn kissing the moon from the other side of Neptune.) it'd still be taking time from bug testing.
...Because now, everyone will delete their quests so they can redesign everything to work with Z3 scrolling, then when it doesn't work out, they will have nothing. Great job.
AH-HA! Why is it that my first assumptions are sometimes right? XD Seriously, I figured that's what it'd be, but... I NEVER THOUGHT THE DEVS WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO TRY MAKING IT! Thanks for telling, DFW. I'm sure that many people will be happy if it's made (even if it's super-buggy). But here's a good question: If Z3 scrolling is perfected, will ZC be renamed Z3C? I mean, think about it- Drowning and falling are being worked on, we have a ton of stuff from Z3, and jman's experimenting with Z3 Scrolling. If THAT gets in, we'd have just about everything we'd need to have an LttP Classic! O_o
Edit: By the way, Revfan, you're wrong. I, for one, won't use Z3 Scrolling much if it's implimented. Only times I'd use it in Realm of Mirrors is in dungeons. Seriously. Who would delete a ton of stuff they worked many days on in their quests just so they can use a cool new feature? 😉 I know a lot of people who wouldn't do that, like Freedom. ESPECIALLY Freedom, that is.... :laughing: Then again, who LIKES building a ton of screens from scratch just because of a new feature?
See what you did DFW?
Revfan9 wrote:See what you did DFW?
😛 Read my edit. As my parents have told me time and time again: It's bad to make assumptions. That's because they're usually wrong and give you a pain in the neck if you act on them when they are. You honestly can't say that people will do that just because Z3 Scrolling is something a lot of people want.
And don't get onto me about what I just said, okay ShadowTiger? I'm just trying to make a point. (Besides, I find it odd how people can be rude to me and no one will say anything about it, but the minute I'm rude to someone, whether on purpose or accidentally, I get a big warning from you. Nice. That just makes me angry.)
I did nothing. From my perspective, if the devs are as smart as I know they are. People will not need to have to quit their quests to remake them for Z3 scrolling, but rather implement it already into quests already existing. That would make backwards compatibility AND the chance to update old quests a reality. No one has to trash anything should this feature even be executed flawlessly. You are worrying over nothing. And as I started earlier and must restate again: THIS IS NOT A SURE THING. So don't go freaking out that its gonna go in. Its just being experimented with.
pikaguy900 wrote:AH-HA! Why is it that my first assumptions are sometimes right? XD Seriously, I figured that's what it'd be, but... I NEVER THOUGHT THE DEVS WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO TRY MAKING IT! Thanks for telling, DFW. I'm sure that many people will be happy if it's made (even if it's super-buggy). But here's a good question: If Z3 scrolling is perfected, will ZC be renamed Z3C? I mean, think about it- Drowning and falling are being worked on, we have a ton of stuff from Z3, and jman's experimenting with Z3 Scrolling. If THAT gets in, we'd have just about everything we'd need to have an LttP Classic! O_oEdit: By the way, Revfan, you're wrong. I, for one, won't use Z3 Scrolling much if it's implimented. Only times I'd use it in Realm of Mirrors is in dungeons. Seriously. Who would delete a ton of stuff they worked many days on in their quests just so they can use a cool new feature? 😉 I know a lot of people who wouldn't do that, like Freedom. ESPECIALLY Freedom, that is.... :laughing: Then again, who LIKES building a ton of screens from scratch just because of a new feature?
1) Diverts attention from Bug Fixing.
2) We don't know the code as well as the devs. We can't assume that just because we're not using the Z3 scrolling feature, doesn't mean that something else seemingly unrelated won't be totally screwed up because of its mere presence within the engine. (Not the quest file, as per the quest rule. The whole engine.)
3) There are more than enough bugs in ZC already without adding new features.
4) See #1 and 3, then read #4 again. That should cause an infinite loop within this list. The longer you read that, the more you will realize that this features is best left for 2.5.
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I really didn't have to have DFW saying anything to tell that jman2050 meant "something big will happen that will break a lot of things." It's nice to know what it is, of course. 😉
But seriously... I'd rather something like that waited until after 2.5. I want to see it myself... but PLEASE wait on trying to do it. Please, please, please, please, please wait on it. I am so sick of this plea falling on deaf ears.
-100 points to DFW for being pedantic about our last convo :P
Regardless, I don't think I'm gonna go through with this. Just the preliminary preparations seem to be causing enough problems.
yay -100 points for me! XD Oh well.
jman2050 wrote:-100 points to DFW for being pedantic about our last convo :PRegardless, I don't think I'm gonna go through with this. Just the preliminary preparations seem to be causing enough problems.
Oh well. Easy come, easy go. ZC has lived without Z3 scrolling for a while, so who says the feature can't wait for a while longer? No hurry. But it would've been nice to have. You gotta admit that.
Thanks Jman. Seriously. You saved us from a long and grueling flaming session.
Hang on, I'm lost here. What's Z3 scrolling?
basically it'd be like attaching a multitude of screens together so that instead of transfering from screen to screen by exiting out their sides, the camera would follow Link across all those screens. Sorta like in LTTP where there were areas that were bigger than just 'one' screen.
Oh, I get it. That would be really nice to have eventually.
I guess what some of it somes down to is: once we release 2.5, are we going to take a break for a few months, or are we jumping right into the next version.
I actually have a proposal that would be pretty cool, apease the masses tired of waiting years between versions, and actually may speed some things up.
What if after 2.5, we do single feature releases. For example, maybe 2.6 only adds Z3 scrolling. It only takes a few days/weeks between versions, and single feature focusing makes DBugging MUCH easier. The downside here is that people constantly need to download new versions, but I'm sure something can be worked out.
....If I had to download a new version every week just to play new quests, I would leave ZC, for sure. Again, think of the dial-up users.
@Amaster42... I wouldn't mind that at all really. And seriously, 4 megs isn't that bad to download, even on dial-up. So I say go for it. Besides, most cable companies charge high speed around 30-40 bucks now. So its more than affordable.
...It takes me 2 to 4 hours to download a 4MB file, and I cannot get a faster connection in my area. Again, think of the dial-up users.
The only major problems that could come of Z3 scrolling are: