2.11 Beta 1(and 2) Progress

Just a random thought... would there be any legal rammifications regarding going open source? I know Nintendo is cool with ZC now, but is there anything that might change it's mind if something happened after it went the open source route?

If it goes Open Source, it basically becomes untouchable, since anyone can modify/distribute it. One place gets shut down, another opens up. *shrug*

I could think of a few things that I could do with it if I had some experience with C++, most of which have some sort of negative intent.😛 Not that I would really do these things, but what I'm saying is, the open source idea while having the potental to be very helpful, could be potentially explosive as well. So DN, get any replies from ML and PM?

Another thought I had: open-sourcing ZC MAY speed up the development, but there are obstacles too. One of them is handling the influx of people we would probably get. Would the staff already in place be able to handle it? And are they dedicated enough to handle it? I say this because many of the bug report/forum sections of projects I've read on sourceforge have an enormous amount of activity that requires a lot of community effort.

About the possibilty of me contributing to ZC: even if I did contribute to ZC somehow, I don't know how much time I would be able to work on it. And from what I gather, you guys need people who can dedicate sometime to the project :shrug:

Well, Mott turned down the offer. Seems he doesn't have as much free time as once believed. Any other recommendations?

yeah, get Vegeta to help out 😉 He's awesome!

Vegeta doesn't have time either. I'm out of ideas...go open source I guess. What does PM have to say?

I'd like us to have a stable, bug-free-as-possible version before we go open source...is that possible?

What about Sludge? He's a great programmer.
And when do you plan to release 2.11 beta 1?

:king: PrinceMSC :king:

Well, your thread in ZC Discussion didn't turn up much, though Solaris Omega sounds like a possibility. Could you let us know what's going on, if you've heard from PM, etc.? Open source is beginning to look like the only option.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...it looks like you have a lot of bug-fixes in 2.11 Beta 1 already. Any chance you could let us try it on for size?

I saw the post by Solaris Omega. For some reason, his name is raising warning flags in my mind, though i can't figure out why. It could just be a case of mistaken identity, but I want to be sure before I follow up on that train of thought. As for a new beta version, I'm in the process of finishing up a change to the code (that currently has the program in a non-operative state). Once I get it hammered out, I should be able to give out a new beta.

Edit: Did some searching and found/remembered that Solaris Omega also goes/went by the name Link Hylia, which definitely set off alarms, though I can't remember why. The only thing that springs to mind is a post made from his IP address under the name 'Dark Natlon', though he attributed that to his brother. For some reason, I'm thinking there is something else I'm forgetting. Anyone have any information they wish to contribute?

Since I can't poke around the forums, I'll just say that I do remember Solaris stirring up trouble somewhere and getting banned or something. I didn't know Link Hylia was under the same IP or whatever, but I do remember that user.

BTW DN, old posts are still archived right?

I think he got in trouble for spamming, or flaming in General Discussion some time ago. I know he got in some sort of trouble at one point, but what it was for, I'm not quite sure

Dark Nation wrote:I saw the post by Solaris Omega. For some reason, his name is raising warning flags in my mind, though i can't figure out why. It could just be a case of mistaken identity, but I want to be sure before I follow up on that train of thought. As for a new beta version, I'm in the process of finishing up a change to the code (that currently has the program in a non-operative state). Once I get it hammered out, I should be able to give out a new beta.

Edit: Did some searching and found/remembered that Solaris Omega also goes/went by the name Link Hylia, which definitely set off alarms, though I can't remember why. The only thing that springs to mind is a post made from his IP address under the name 'Dark Natlon', though he attributed that to his brother. For some reason, I'm thinking there is something else I'm forgetting. Anyone have any information they wish to contribute?

And of course, once more, thank you for all the work you're putting into ZC, DN. 😊 ... You pwn. :P

Dark Nation wrote: As for a new beta version, I'm in the process of finishing up a change to the code (that currently has the program in a non-operative state). Once I get it hammered out, I should be able to give out a new beta.

Cant wait 'til you have it ready. I've got some plans related to bug tracking that I'll lay down once it's done.

As for open source, I have to say it would probably be best to wait until the inevitable (and unfortunate) day when ZC isn't going to have a home site anymore. Until that time, let it continue to be AGN's flagship game, and seek new programmers, because there are, as others mentioned, some obstacles to deal with in open source as well.

As for new programmers, I don't know of any. I wish I'd learned C++ by now. 😛 But alas, of the languages I do know, C++ isn't one of them, and it'd probably be a while before I could grasp the depth involved in making a game.

At one point we thought that he was impersonating Phantom Menace.

By any chance will there be a linux release also?

*Reads entire thread*

God... talk about absolute perfect timing XD I was a bit befuddled at the speed and apparant openness with which I was attended to when I PMed PM. JayeM suggested it to me, so I did it, not really expecting much more than the ability to make utilities in a support role (like fcf did with his mapmaker). When I was offered the job almost immediately, I couldn't do anythign BUT accept.

Now I see why... I have no clue where FCF is and DN says he doesn't have time to work on it, so I guess more programmers were needed, and I happened to come at the right time. I guess I'm just saying this to confirm the fact that my participation here is a complete and total fluke XD

As for ZC going open source... I have my reasons, but I'm usually against the open-sourceness of specialized projects like games. I just don't think it really is neccesary. Then again, I suppose this gives me more incentive to work hard, since if I do a good enough job, going open source or not won't even be a factor ^^

And on another note, I made my first change today. The source gets a LOT more understandable as you work with it, and I'm starting to get an overall picture of the system in place. What's the change? Nothing too major depending on who you ask, but you all won't know until I progress further. Once again, I thank everyone for their support.

Well, just cant wait until the next beta comes out! Once it does, I will again attempt to compile a list of the remaining bugs.(Hopefully with the help of others!)

Good luck, jman!

jman2050 wrote:Newest Zelda Classic Developer. All ZC bugs are now retroactively my fault XD.

I think you'll do a great job. 😊

jman goes to #PureZC on occasion, where he is but a lowly user. I am an op. jman is also a developer now... sweet. now I can ban and kick him till he adds the features I want!

kidding. I wouldn't do something like that. I'll just probably keep you from speaking

2.11 Beta 2 Progress

1. Direct Timed warps. Still uses the side warp and is controlled via the screen data dialog. Difference is, there's now a screen flag called 'Direct Timed warp' that, when checked, saves Link's position onto the new screen when warped. Custom bosses should be easier now, although there are a few more things that need to be worked on to make things more versatile.
2. New quest rule: 'Combo cycling on layers' Incorporates code that allows combos on layers to cycle in the game engine. Properties don't take effect (as usual), but I assume it'd be useful for certain animations as well as changes in collision.
3. Fixed the bug where the dungeon progress maps would not save correctly.
4. Changed the way Link Tile Modifiers work. Now ALL of Link's animations should be changed when you pick up an LTM item other than a shield. As for the shield, it's LTM value will only affect Link's downward and left/right walking animation. Keep this in mind.
5. New quest rule: 'Full Priority Damage Combos'. When checked, damage combos will ALWAYS take effect over any other combo if you walk between two different combo types. If this poses a potential problem, an effort will be made to give more flexibility to the user for determining priorities of combo types.

To-do:

New password encryption
Working with the continue bug as respects to the side warp
The MIDI bug (may be difficult to do)
New subscreen types
Some new combo types
Other stuff :P

New beta should be coming soon.

Dude, you are MAD Cool! 😛 *Applauds* Your first update. So cool, man. 😊 Bet you're really happy with the progress. ^_^ It's not easy, and the community is backing your every need.

Now, ... question. (And Comment.)

The Direct Tile Warp, still uses the side warp? Couldn't get it to use the Side Warp? So you had to decide between tile warp, which has BOTH stair warp (Destination) and Direct (Same Spot) ... And Side Warp, which generally ONLY has Destination? .. So that's why we have Side warp as the direct timed. Nice.

Now for the comment. The Link Tile Mods have a great acronym, but so does LinkTheMaster. 😛 We should keep this in mind. ^_^ :laughing:

I noticed that. Lately in chat that's been used and I thought someone was talking to me. :tongue:

Anyway, these are some really good updates. I loved the timed direct warps and the layered combo cycling stuff. And, it's great to hear my point about the damage combos has been looked into. 😉 Great stuff, jman. :thumbsup:

You've answered a lot of problems I've had with some certain things with just those few additions. :scared:

Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

Wow, that was fast.😊 Good work. I hope to see more progress from you in the future jman.

wow... smokin' Jman2050

One bug that is causing me great problems right now is the shops not showing up bug.
It seems to be even worse when the item being sold in Misc. 1 or 2.
When this is used to block access and then decides not to show up, it stops the player dead at that point.... quest then unbeatable.

Changed the way Link Tile Modifiers work. Now ALL of Link's animations should be changed when you pick up an LTM item other than a shield. As for the shield, it's LTM value will only affect Link's downward and left/right walking animation. Keep this in mind.

Also of note is this entry from the Categorized Bug List:

Because the sound code has changed starting with 1.93 alpha 4, people have been reporting many odd sound-related issues, mostly distortions or failures of some kind.

Dart Zaidyer wrote:This sounds retroactive. Shields need to go all the way, and I'll tell you why: Some of us have already drawn Link tiles where he's holding a different shield when facing upward. We were looking forward to doing it for many more animations, like sword swinging.

Also of note is this entry from the Categorized Bug List:
I think DN said it had to do with a different version of Allegro being used.
That being the case, try switching back to the sound code used in 1.92 b183 and that should solve everyone's problems. Nobody EVER complained about that one.

Fact is, until the references to the link tiles are changed all together (come to think of it, it might not be THAT hard, but it would most definitely break older quests without some work), it has to be this way if people want to take advantage of the Link Tile Modifiers. Notice how on the tile sheet, there is only 1 tile for Link walking up in 2-frame mode, and only 3 frames in BS mode. Furthermore, swimming, attacking, heck almost any action except walking the tiles don't take into account any modifiers on the shield's part. That leaves two options aside from this one:

1. Remove the shield check, and force the user to redraw all the link tiles at a different location so getting the shield doesn't break the graphics.
2. Change the link tile sheet altogether and make it more flexible, adding in new graphics for the shield modifying.

I know a lot of you wouldn't mind the first option, but for every advanced user of ZC there are 5 ZC n00bs. We have to cater to the n00bs too ya know. As for the second option, perhaps in the future, but DN is already planning/working on a more flexible approach to Link's tiles anyway, so I won't deal with it until I ee what DN has in store. So I went for the lowest common denominator, and with all due respect, considering the constraints, I think the tradeoff is worth it.

EDIT - As for the sound problems... We're working on it. Somehow >_>

Well, making Link's tiles selectable shouldn't be too hard; it's just a matter of doing it. That's what the Link tile sprites dialog is supposed to accomplish eventually.