2.11 Beta 1(and 2) Progress

Actually the SNES (and probably the GBA too) uses 16 color palletes - 16 of them at a time to get 256 colors. This is exactly how ZC works currently. Although not having to worry about palletes when you rip tiles would be nice.

Indeed... the only thing really keeping us from true SNES color is the fact that we can't use all 16 CSets on a palette at the same time. I'm curious to hear how this new format is going to work, and how it will effect older quests.

Orion wrote:Indeed... the only thing really keeping us from true SNES color is the fact that we can't use all 16 CSets on a palette at the same time. I'm curious to hear how this new format is going to work, and how it will effect older quests.

Well, .. there's also layering. O_o You could layer things from other Csets onto the same general area, if you also make good use of the Cset 2 ability for combos. :shrug: ... Pretty useless considering the alternatives though. :sweat: But if it had to be done now, it could!

I think what orion's talking about is how there's only 4 csets that can change from pallete to pallete, since the others are reserved for the subscreen, enemies, items, and the like. If palletes were expanded to include all 16 csets, then we could do color just like is done on the SNES. But yeah, if we're going to get 16 bit color, then there really isn't a need for this.

Dark Nation wrote:10. Sprites now have a Z variable. This allows for expansion for new enemies (and other things) that will be able to jump and fly. Although a few enemies already do this (tektites and peahats, for instance), the calculation for them is faked. The new method makes jumping/flying easier to do from a programmer's prospective.

Is this going to allow us to be able to have playable, and enemy sprites bigger than 16x16? Like 16x32, or something?

The Z index is exciting. I'm looking forward to seeing what cool new stuff comes from it.

Preparation for higher color depths is also great... Just don't let it end up like Alpha 173. 😛

You know, I feel the need to make another thread about a new release of ZC with an enemy editor and all sorts of new things. Anybody remember beta 179? Those were the days...

Lol. Or tell them DN's real identity is an 11 year old kid in the 6th grade. That'd be funny too. 😉

I love the idea of a z-variable...some ideas:
1) Aquamentus 2: A dragon like that of the aquamentus, except instead of moving back & forth, it flies in a circle and shoots flames while doing so, so link can't hit it. Then it'll land back on the right side of the screen again (so maybe a left & right one would be required so to designate what side it will be on when landing)

2) Jumping/Roc's Feather: Item can make link jump, allows him to jump over one space...perhaps a new "jumpability" square for combo editor would need to be in order so as to designate what link can jump over.

3) Digging and '-1' layer: Negative z-values can designate things underneath the ground, perhaps maybe a new "-1" layer can be made, which appears invisible in the editor unless you uncheck the visibility boxes of all other layers...the layer also appears invisible in the game, but you can see parts of it when you "Dig" on "Diggable" spaces, or when you move blocks, erasing layer 0, revealing layer '-1'.

4) Z-Values for layers: Certain z-values for layers can mean different things, perhaps to reorder layers--so if layer 2 is assigned by the creator a z-value higher than layer 3, it will actually appear above layer 3--or maybe a layer w/ a z-value of 1 makes it so link can jump onto the layer, but if higher than 1, link will always be underneath it. If, 0, link will always be above it.

5) Z-values for items: Maybe it can make items drop from enemies, or pop-out of a new kind of bush, or fall from the 'sky'! 😊

6) Z-values for enemies: Can make enemies jump to various heights: -1=dig underground (like leevers), 0=ground enemies, 1=hovering enemies 2=flying enemies (as they are currently) 3=flying that link must use certain enemies to reach them or to 'jump' and attack them--likewise, they must fly lower, to a value of 2 or less, to hit Link). 4=Link can never hit them (unless it 'swoops' down)

idontknow wrote:5) Z-values for items: Maybe it can make items drop from enemies, or pop-out of a new kind of bush, or fall from the 'sky'! 😊

personally, I can't wait for extended CSet. Golden Sun tileset here I come!

I also liked BH4's Item Spawn idea, and it made me think of another idea; overworld/menu items. here's what I mean

say you have an animated tile of a sword resting in a pedestal, like the Master Sword, for an item. Link would come up, and pick it up like normal, but it wouldn't show the sword as it looks while in the pedestal, but looking like it was laying down, or something like that. in the menu, as well, it would show that "laying down" sword, instead of the one in the pedestal. get it? you could do so much with this; 50 rupees partially buried, a mushroom growing off the side of a tree, a bow and arrow set hanging on a rack...

I updated the first post will a complete list of all the changes. However, here are the most recent ones.

28. Fixed the year in the end game credits.
29. Fixed the tile import/export.
30. Now, changing the title screen for ZC causes it to reset so that the correct title shows immediately. Before you had to either wait for the title to cycle through once or manually reset the game.
31. Alternative music now continues to play while the game is paused (with the p key, not the Start button).
32. Fixed the bug where the Triforce init settings weren't being saved by ZQuest.
33. Fixed the bug where the Triforce init settings weren't being used in ZC.
34. Fixed the bug where a DMap Intro on the starting DMap could freeze the game.
35. Misalignment arrows now show up on disabled screens.
36. Pasting a map screen now causes the color to change immediately (before, you had to switch screens and then return to see the correct colors).
37. The 'Heart Container' room type is now called the 'Red Potion or Heart Container' room type.
38. There is a new List Combos Used (shortcut key is `) under the Tools menu. This will show you a list of all of the combos used on the current screen.
39. Deleting a screen now counts as a change, so ZQuest will ask about saving when you try to quit after doing a screen delete.
40. Panel 4 now shortens the room string when displaying it so it doesn't run into the combo scroller.
41. The Catch All caption and value now match up with the other captions and values in panel 4.
42. The room types are now alphabetized.
43. The screen palette dialog now has a dropdown list of the screen palettes with the palette names instead of a numeric entry box.
44. The < and > keys (you have to hold the shift key down) will now flip through the 256 possible screen palettes.
45. Changing the message more x and y variables now counts as a change in ZQuest.
46. When deleting a message string in ZQuest, the scring is shortened so it will fit in the confirmation dialog.
47. When deleting a message string in ZQuest, the End Game string value is updated if necessary.
48. Fixed the bug where there would sometimes be random characters appearing at the end of a message string in panel 4 and in the confirm string delete dialog.
49. The DMap number in the Edit DMap dialog titlebar is now correct (before, it was 1 number too low).
50. Going to the MIDI editor now stops music playback in ZQuest.
51. If a screen doesn't have a message string associated with it, it is now shown as (None) instead of (none) on panel 4, to make it match up with the other items there.

Dark Nation wrote:43. The screen palette dialog now has a dropdown list of the screen palettes with the palette names instead of a numeric entry box.

Thank you!!

Sounds great! How far are you from a bug-free release?

I'm looking at May. Of 2007. 🙄

Actually, I'm not sure. Hopefully, I will start to get some more free time soon so I can get 2.11 out.

Dark Nation wrote:I'm looking at May. Of 2007. 🙄

Actually, I'm not sure.

I'm *SERIOUSLY* considering going open source. Definitely have to talk to PM and WL first. It would cause development speed to skyrocket, but there would be no more security on quests.

Thoughts?

I know what that means.😞 Quest security isn't exactly Brinks quality right now. Open source would be a double edged sword, but if you're seriously considering it still, I'd suggest you do the old process of pro/con reduction.

Blonde799 wrote:I'd suggest you do the old process of pro/con reduction.

Dark Nation wrote:Thoughts?

Dark Nation wrote:I'm *SERIOUSLY* considering going open source. Definitely have to talk to PM and WL first. It would cause development speed to skyrocket, but there would be no more security on quests.

Thoughts?

Would it cause development to skyrocket? Certainly open source allows the possibilty, but there's no guarantee. First you have to spark people's interest, second, those interested have to become familiar with the code and what it's doing, and that takes some time. ZSNES's development skyrocketed after it went open source, but only because they got one really really good developer. (Nach, in case you follow ZSNES development) But it's not the same for every open source project.

Making ZC open source could help in many ways, but I wouldn't want it to branch out into other versions. Plus, if ZC became open source, it could be included in Linux distros and other products, possibly drawing more attention to ZC.

Oh yeah, Open Zelda went open source, anyone know what happen to that?

Open Zelda got Daniel Barras's attention, that's what. He used them in his little game of "eliminating the competition while coming up with an excuse for why my stupid project is never getting done" and successfully fooled their webhost and everyone at GU into thinking Nintendo wanted the project dead.

After that they eventually made a few engine updates and just decided to rewrite the whole thing from scratch, and as far as I know it is still being worked on. Interest pretty much died when they started turning away "copyrighted materials".

But as to ZC being Open Source, well... ZC is a lot more famous, and some decent programmers should come along in no time. The problem is working with distribution splinters and quest security.

I think it'll come down to this:

• Quest security is already breakable, you know. Only the competent and dedicated ever try to do it, and that's not going to change even if somebody writes a cracking utility. (Which they probably could have done even now.)
• A resourceful community will probably actually find a way to circumvent distro splinters. Either there will be one definitive version that everybody uses because it's so good, or someone will establish a "feature pool" and everyone will just want to share. There are other ways, too... Drop-in features that don't require modifying a quest file directly, etc etc

However, without the right license, Open Sourcing will decentralize ZC from AGN. This may ensure that nobody can ever kill it, but it can also lead to a control nightmare if you're not careful.

Another possibility is to get a team of competent, trustworthy, and available programmers together to work on ZC. The current programmers (myself included) seem to be lacking the last attribute. Other programmers on this board seem to be lacking in one or more of the three afore mentioned qualifications.

Open Source? In Which ONLY these set people, X, Y, and Z, can design the engine and new items and all that, and all the members can do is make quests? They won't be able to build their own modules, such as new combos and such for their quests, which will then be incompatible with the player, and ... ... Okay, I'm confuddled. How will this work exactly? 😮dd:

Does this mean that you're retiring from ZC, DN? I hope not...

I really don't think open source is a great idea. Maybe you and fatcatfan could take on another couple of helpers. Any prospects?

BH4: You're confusing my two ideas. Open Source means everyone gets the source code. Upside is that people we've never heard of would have a chance to contribute. Downside is that we'd lose control of the source and there would be no quest security anymore (anyone could open, edit, and rip anyone's quests). The other idea is to just hire more help, but good help is hard to find. Even harder is finding good help that has the time to help (as is the case with the 3 current programmers).

JM: No, I'm not retiring. I'm just limited on how much time I have to work on ZC and am looking for ways to speed up development.

Oh good, you scared me!

My first thought for new programmers was Mottzilla.

If it weren't for the episode with Kenage, I'd have already asked him on the team.

Well, if all else fails DN, you can move to FPS creator, heard that was the Zelda Classic of FPSs.😛

I thought about Mottzilla too, but then I remembered that previous incident. Maybe a sparring of certain bygones are in order? It seems that open source isn't exactly favored. I'm sure you've thought of this already DN, but maybe developer concentration could be the order of the day? Since no one has time to work around the clock it seems, maybe a specific direction would work. From what I've heard, 3 folks navigating a large cluttered room seems to be a challenge.

Sparring? Or sparing?

Sparing, sparring, you get rid of them in the end.😛

EDIT:Nevermind, got the details. I should've read her forums when I had the chance like a bajillion years ago.😛