Emulation (open discussion)

I'm planning on building a MAME cabinet from my scratch design..

it's the games that are illegal, not the player, so no, Cyborg, it's not illegal to play official disks with an emulator... or is it? I'm pretty sure it isn't, but don't hold me to it

*b* wrote:it's the games that are illegal, not the player, so no, Cyborg, it's not illegal to play official disks with an emulator... or is it? I'm pretty sure it isn't, but don't hold me to it

Heh, I won't hold you to it, but something comes to mind:
bleem! Who remembers that program that allows a person to play PS1 games on the PC?
Eh, oh well.

Thoughts on public domain roms?
(and would it be alright to post links to them, as long as there are no 'indecent' links or illegal roms/links with them?

The Cyborg wrote:Heh, I won't hold you to it, but something comes to mind:
bleem! Who remembers that program that allows a person to play PS1 games on the PC?
Eh, oh well.

Well, there's also Magic Engine, which allows you to play PC Engine and Turbo Duo games on your PC. They charge money to register it, and haven't been shut down.

Sony DID get into a legal battle with bleem!, but as I recall, bleem! won, and were allowed to keep selling their product... I think bleem! had to shut down simply because of a combination of legal fees and the fact that they really weren't making that much money.

Here's a snippet of an article I found about the subject:

Bleem launched its PlayStation emulator just over two and a half years ago, only to be instantly sued by Sony for a mix of copyright infringement, intellectual property violation and brand degradation.

Sony's case against Bleem followed a parallel action targeting Connectix, which launched a PlayStation emulator of its own earlier in the year, for the Macintosh. Unlike the Connectix case, however, Bleem won the support of the court, beating a temporary injunction against sales of its emulator and later defeating Sony's demand to ban the sale of the emulator permanently.

Sony's failures in court went to its head, Bleem later alleged in a countersuit of its own. The emulation company claimed that the Japanese giant's US operation had initiated a dirty tricks policy which, in part, involved attempting to have Bleem thrown out of the May 1999 E3 show, one of the world's largest games industry shindigs.

May 2000 saw the announcement of the Dreamcast version of Bleem - Bleemcast - at which point Sony sued the company again. Once more, Sony alleged that Bleem was violating its patents.

Now, as we all know, bleem! shut down shortly after the Bleemcast announcement. I think that they just weren't making enough money to pay the legal fees to deal with all of Sony's lawsuits, and were thus forced to give up.

I dotn agree. Its rips off the company. Well, if its a new game at least.
Nes, Snes, N64 and Gamboy are all ok now, as there are no gfames selling anymore. Byt GBA, GC etc is wrong methinks.

yeah.
right now emulation for old/outdated systems is kind of a grey area for me.
new systems/games is completely out of the question
it's just not right

I think that morally (not legally) it's ok to download new games if and only if you are doing it just to try it out, like a rental. And if you like it then you buy the game. After all, it's usually better to play a console game on the console, right?

Feasul wrote:I think that morally (not legally) it's ok to download new games if and only if you are doing it just to try it out, like a rental. And if you like it then you buy the game. After all, it's usually better to play a console game on the console, right?

Well, sure, it's like a rental, except that instead of a rental place buying 1+ copies which are rented out to a few individuals temporarily, one person gives permanent copies to 1000+ individuals.

But yes, unless you've got a controller or modified one of your own, it's not even close to the origional experience. Ever play a 6-button fighting game with a keyboard? Hadoken suddenly becomes DIFFICULT. So when you want to do something complex like, say, Somersault Justice... I mean, I suck pretty bad on my own, but it's like some sort of joke to watch me play on a keyboard.

BTW, there's a post in one of the Sticky topics on this forum about posting ROM links: NO. Emulators are okay, but if there are ANY roms on the site which aren't PD, then NO. And if you need to ask, then NO, your rom is NOT PD.

There's nothing I love more than downloading fresh PS2 isos and playing them on my PS2. Or pulling the old rent, rip, burn is also tons of fun. I rented about 7 PS2 games from the local video rental store, and the clerk asked me "Are you gonna play all those games in 5 days?" "Hell no, buddy, it'll take me atleast a few months." 😉 So in conclusion... Yes I think it's wrong. No I do not care. If I can obtain 30 - 50 dollar software for free, then I'm not going to hesitate. =p

*note to mott- it just came in today, and i don't even need the damn card! XD*

The Cyborg wrote:Heh, I won't hold you to it, but something comes to mind:
bleem! Who remembers that program that allows a person to play PS1 games on the PC?
Eh, oh well.

there's also epsxe, which is alive and well, as well as my player of choice.

I would rather actually buy the game because I'd hate playing it on the computer. I find it more comfortable to play on the system and that way you can take it to your friends house and play it on thier console.
Using a ROM just as a "rental" I think would be ok. Why pay for a game that ends up being horrible in the first place? It wouldn't be wrong if you just keept it for like a day or two.

Kairyu wrote:But yes, unless you've got a controller or modified one of your own, it's not even close to the origional experience. Ever play a 6-button fighting game with a keyboard? Hadoken suddenly becomes DIFFICULT. So when you want to do something complex like, say, Somersault Justice... I mean, I suck pretty bad on my own, but it's like some sort of joke to watch me play on a keyboard.

Kairyu wrote:BTW, there's a post in one of the Sticky topics on this forum about posting ROM links: NO. Emulators are okay, but if there are ANY roms on the site which aren't PD, then NO. And if you need to ask, then NO, your rom is NOT PD.

Anyone reccommend a SNES emu that can run smoothly on a P1 MMX @ 233 MHZ?
(and yes, that's my main computer 😞 )
Gens(and Gens+) works excellent on my 'dinosaur' of a system(now I just need to get a few Sega CD discs to try with it...)

I do not download ROMS, but this is only because I have all of the ROMS that I could want already. I have about 600+ NES ROMs and quite a few SNES and genisis roms. I have little interest in using emulators for high end consoles.

I think it is okay, but you can never beat the feel of the real system. That is why I have been looking for an NES. They are getting to be pretty rare it seems.

The Cyborg wrote:heh, I have a sidewinder gamepad, so it's pretty easy to play some of the games.

Thanks for clarifying that for me :thumbsup:

Anyone reccommend a SNES emu that can run smoothly on a P1 MMX @ 233 MHZ?
(and yes, that's my main computer 😞 )
Gens(and Gens+) works excellent on my 'dinosaur' of a system(now I just need to get a few Sega CD discs to try with it...)

Well, I'd say try ZSNES, DOS version, and then ZSNES, windows version. If it's still slow, try doing stuff like changing the screen size/filtering or disabling the sound. Beyond that, you'd be better off asking an expert in the field...

Edit: I've got a Sidewinder, as well a Capcom PC Fighter 6 pad which I got with MMX PC. They just doesn't work with my computer. There seem to be compatibility issues with the hardware that can't be fixed.

Kairyu wrote:Well, I'd say try ZSNES, DOS version, and then ZSNES, windows version. If it's still slow, try doing stuff like changing the screen size/filtering or disabling the sound. Beyond that, you'd be better off asking an expert in the field...

I would love to tell you guys where I found a good amount of PD roms, but there's links to illegal roms, and hentai links. If there wern't, I'd post the link. But if you want to know where the PD roms can be found, give me an e-mail, or IM me via AIM (The Cyborg x2)
(but don't say I didn't warn you!)

Sidewinder? What's the point when you can use a PSX controller with a Radioshack PSX to USB adapter? The things are only $10.50, support the joysticks and force feedback, and work with both the original controller and the later varieties such as DualShock 2.

Needless to say, playing PSX and N64 games on my PC and laptop is much, much better with my DualShock 2 than with a keyboard. When it comes to NES, though, it's keyboard all the way! 😉

As for the thread's topic, I don't see a problem with emulation of anything that isn't produced anymore. Beyond that, however, emulation of games should only be done if you own a game (preferably, you'd dump the ROM or ISO yourself instead of downloading it. The hardware for this isn't really expensive for the GBA). But that's just my opinion, anyway. *shrugs*

The Cyborg wrote:I'll try the dos version, I just have to remember where it can be found...

anyways, you're going to need at least a p300 or more to have a decent framerate... or a damn good video card.

... :mad2:
just have to browse aroud garage sales for parts then...

What are some of the best emulatiors for every single system?

*b* wrote:it's the games that are illegal, not the player, so no, Cyborg, it's not illegal to play official disks with an emulator... or is it? I'm pretty sure it isn't, but don't hold me to it

It's not illegal IF YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE GAME. It is if you don't own the original copy.

The only new games I get are the ones for gba since they seem to be easy to rip off either way.

Daywalker

The Cyborg wrote:I've tried ZSNES for windows, and it doesn't cut it. 😞 I'll try the dos version, I just have to remember where it can be found...
btw, SNES9x works better, but the frame rate is still choppy(about 3/4 speed)
Now if I can find a better emulater for NES besides JNES.

I would love to tell you guys where I found a good amount of PD roms, but there's links to illegal roms, and hentai links. If there wern't, I'd post the link. But if you want to know where the PD roms can be found, give me an e-mail, or IM me via AIM (The Cyborg x2)
(but don't say I didn't warn you!)

Get Nesticle or RockNES. Nesticle works well for PCs that have low performance rates. My old packard bell comp was slow as fuck. Talking about 75 mHz here but it work for that.

RockNES has most of the sounds and graphics down to a T.

The only ROM I really need is the jap version of Mario 2. In the states its called The Lost Levels.
Sorry for the double post.

Daywalker

DsS Game wrote:It's not illegal IF YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE GAME. It is if you don't own the original copy.Daywalker

Uh, I hate to say that you're wrong, but Nintendo(and possibly other companies) DO NOT allow archive copies of games; but that doesn't stop people :mischief:

Could that be contested? Probably. Look at what happened with DVD rippers, they won the archive battle. The same thing could happen with Nintendo. Who knows?

If I may, what games has anyone downloaded, and why?
(for me, it's usually public domain roms, and imports that haven't been released in the US at all, like Final Fight Tough for the Super Famicom, or Zero Wing for the Mega Drive)

Cyborg, what "Nintendo" allows or says, doesn't mean jack shit. The law states and any prior actions support that you are legally entitled to make backup copies of any software you purchased. There is no reason for you not to be able to as far as common sense goes.

However, making copies of games and distributing them to those whom are not legally entitled is not. This means, putting files up for download, giving your friends copies, etc.

Anyways emulation is totally legal. The only things to keep in mind are COPYRIGHTS. System bios roms are always copyrighted. All commercial game software is ussually copyrighted. These things you may not obtain or make a copy of unless you own the original. :O It's all common sense really.

As far as the old vs. new, no one really gets hurt horribly by old game system roms being distributed. If anything it raises populairity for sequels.

You make a good point Mott.

DsS Game, thanks for pointing out Nesticle(and RockNES) for me, thanks!

The Cyborg wrote:Uh, I hate to say that you're wrong, but Nintendo(and possibly other companies) DO NOT allow archive copies of games; but that doesn't stop people :mischief:

Could that be contested? Probably. Look at what happened with DVD rippers, they won the archive battle. The same thing could happen with Nintendo. Who knows?

Dude if u read disclaimers on any site where you would normally download ROMs, it gives you an agreement. You agree to that agreement only if you have the original copy of a game.

Daywalker

Er, yes, because we all know that everything on ROM site agreement pages, like the 24 hour rule, is true. </sarcasm>

It's my understanding that there really is no problem with dumping/ripping your own ROM or ISO from your own legitimate copy of the game. However, downloading a ROM or ISO for a game you own is not legal. People simply use that as an excuse to justify downloading games. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with the excuse, since not everyone has backup software and downloading games can be more convenient than dumping/ripping them yourself, but it's still not an adequate excuse.

It really isn't illegal if your downloading a game that yo already own. Your practically downloading a backup of a ame you have. I don't see that being illegal.

Daywalker

DsS Game wrote:It really isn't illegal if your downloading a game that yo already own. Your practically downloading a backup of a ame you have. I don't see that being illegal.

Daywalker

HA HA HA no.

It really IS illegal if you're downloading a game that you already own. You're literally downloading a copy of the game which you didn't pay for, unless you paid some ROM site for the download, which would probably be even worse than just downloading it for free.
Not that downloading it for free is good just because it could be worse. Think of it this way: there are very, very few judges in this country who would be willing to let you get off with having shot someone in the foot just because it was better than shooting them in the head.
Of course, if you don't already see it as being illegal, I doubt you're going to listen to some random poster on a message board like me. Regardless of the fact that I actually have a slight clue as to what I'm talking about.

Now, here's something unrelated to the immediate discussion I've been wondering about. Are .SPCs, .PSFs, etc. legal? I can't imagine how they could be. But they're on Zophar's Domain, and I was under the impression that the point of that site was to have a compilation of all emulation materials that they could get away with providing(legally). So is Zophar's Domain less legit than I thought, or do the sound files not qualify for legal protection, or what?

I used to download tons of ROMs. I had... *counts* All but 8 SNES games, all the NES games, all the GBA and GB games up to 2003, and one N64 ROM. I deleted them, and now only use ISOs to pre-view games.

...Oh, and can you make a CD Burner into a DVD Burner without buying the harddrive? And can you edit blank CDs to make them bigger?

😮dd:
interesting question; but I wouldn't know how to answer it :shrug:

Anyways, I just got BattleArena Toshinden 2 PSX game, and I was wonderin what would be a good emulator that can (a) play the black CDs, and (b), would run semi-decent on my system(see page 1)?

Here's another question: what do you think of 'hacked' ROMS?
(like the PD ROM Atari Invaders)