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[5th Quest Entry] Nightmare

93 replies · 108,301 views · Started 31 August 2013

This thread included a poll: Something Something
Nightmare 02 Oct 2013, 23:21

Joki81 wrote:I cant access the top left of level 3's map. Is there a route I need to follow?

You don't need to access the top part of the map to get to the key It's on the left, follow the long path.

-James

CJC 03 Oct 2013, 01:03

Joki81 wrote:I cant access the top left of level 3's map. Is there a route I need to follow?

In the eve of the 'V' you can see once you acquire the map, there's a walk-through wall.

[MENTION=38509]Nightmare[/MENTION]
Level 4 is too hard. And it's not fun hard. :cowsleep:

There are too many necessary shutter doors, the enemies are MUCH too harsh for players that do not yet have access to a blue ring, and once you get through the key door YOU GET STUCK! There's a room with three darknuts and a row of graves; I've killed them and tried both pushing every grave and blowing the whistle... nothing.

My recommendation: Remove some of the shutter doors or, better yet, make the Old Man's hint actually useful: place "Push-No Wait" blocks instead of "Push-Wait" blocks and have the shutters triggered in that manner, so players can advance without fighting the enemies (that would make this dungeon fun).

EDIT: Found Blue Ring, argument still stands (since you need the Whistle to get it). Also, you forgot to check 'Hold up Item' in that room... unless you meant it to be like picking up the Boomerang.

Nightmare 03 Oct 2013, 01:57

Bomb the Graves where you can't get past, just as in Lv. 9 of New Quest.

If it's really that much of a problem I'll put in the cracked blocks to tip it off.

-James

Gleeok 03 Oct 2013, 02:24

Level 4 wasn't too hard I don't think. You just have to be in heart conservation mode as with any long linear sequences.

I'm also a firm believer that in "fighting in the forefront" quests the red candle should be given before it's completely useless.

Nightmare 03 Oct 2013, 03:38

CJC wrote:Couldn't find the boss key for dungeon 4, going in search of Level 5.

Whistle While You Work! And a Whistle While You Work! And a Whistle While You Whistle While You Whistle While You Work!

Joki81 03 Oct 2013, 07:55

Nightmare wrote:You don't need to access the top part of the map to get to the key It's on the left, follow the long path.

-James

I just cant find it... Ive found the money or your life room. Just keep hitting dead ends...

Can someone give me a room by room guide from the money or your life room?

If not, no worries, my copy of the Windwaker HD should be arriving today... Will abandon this quest for something easier...

CJC 05 Oct 2013, 04:12

I think the purple rupee is the small wallet, which limits your total to 255. Either that, or it might be a bug.

After much toil and a lot (LOT) of luck, I managed to acquire the Letter. Let's see if I can finish Dungeon 5.

Nightmare 05 Oct 2013, 04:38

The Flashing Rupee is the Large Wallet and boosts your money to 999. Screen north of old Power Bracelet in the 1st Quest, move an Armos.

-James

Joki81 05 Oct 2013, 09:45

CJC wrote:I think the purple rupee is the small wallet, which limits your total to 255. Either that, or it might be a bug.

After much toil and a lot (LOT) of luck, I managed to acquire the Letter. Let's see if I can finish Dungeon 5.

I found level 5 too difficult, so after getting the bow went into level six for the upgraded power bracelet... Got the extra heart container next to level 8... then got the level 3 sword... Now level 5s easier.

My copy of the windwaker hd has also arrived, so doubt I'm gonna have time to finish this quest... but thanks for all your help guys.

Nightmare 05 Oct 2013, 13:39

CJC wrote:I think the purple rupee is the small wallet, which limits your total to 255. Either that, or it might be a bug.

After much toil and a lot (LOT) of luck, I managed to acquire the Letter. Let's see if I can finish Dungeon 5.

Joki81 wrote:I found level 5 too difficult, so after getting the bow went into level six for the upgraded power bracelet... then got the level 3 sword... Now level 5s easier.

My copy of the windwaker hd has also arrived, so doubt I'm gonna have time to finish this quest... but thanks for all your help guys.

Well, as you might have guessed by now, Level 5 is a test. If you are playing all the Z1 quests made by either AGN or Nintendo, by the time you get to Level 5 you should know a bit about challenge running Zelda quests by the time you get there. The enemy sets are for the most part familiar as I took them out of Level 8 of the First Quest, with a few new wrinkles among other things. It's kind of where I start to separate the "men from the boys."

Level 1, show we have an enemy editor
Level 2, do you remember how to play Level 7 of the First Quest and Level 8 of the Second Quest, with far fewer Hearts
Level 3, once again featuring the enemy editor, bringing out powered versions of Zols and Keese.
Level 4, try to be a little more creative here, as 2 had the old Goriya feels.
Level 5, I'm not fucking around. We're going to find out if you're good now and can earn the right to see newer enemies and things.

Joki81, nice one. I didn't think of pulling that one in tests, as I'm perfectly able to kill Blue Darknuts easily with the White Sword. With the Magic Sword it should be relatively trivial to kill Level 5 as the Blue Darknuts should drop more life than you lose. Keep playing, I wish you luck. Kudos. I see someone has played the Second Quest and remembers the Ladder break-in trick.

-James

CJC 05 Oct 2013, 19:29

Nightmare wrote: It's kind of where I start to separate the "men from the boys."

Well guess what! I passed your little test! : P

Found Level 6, going to try and get the item quick so I can fetch the Magic Sword (since the batrobe was a nightmare). ...I suppose I should also actually LOOK for the Magic Sword.

sctmorgan 06 Oct 2013, 23:58

Can someone lead me in the direction of level 2. I can't finish level 5 & 6 without the whistle. Since I haven't been to level 2 I'm assuming the whistle is there.

Joki81 07 Oct 2013, 08:22

sctmorgan wrote:Can someone lead me in the direction of level 2. I can't finish level 5 & 6 without the whistle. Since I haven't been to level 2 I'm assuming the whistle is there.

Check where level 8 was in the 1st quest.

sctmorgan 07 Oct 2013, 21:52

Joki81 wrote:Check where level 8 was in the 1st quest.

hmmmm...Can't remember where level 8 was in the 1st quest. It's been a while and I've played other quests since then. :crushed:

Joki81 08 Oct 2013, 00:45

sctmorgan wrote:hmmmm...Can't remember where level 8 was in the 1st quest. It's been a while and I've played other quests since then. :crushed:

From the start in the over world, go 4 screens east, 1 screen north, and 2 screens east. Thats level 8 from quest 1.

CJC 08 Oct 2013, 01:55

Whistle is in level 4, in the lower right leg of the 'x'.

Level 2 is in the green forest east of start. You need to stab a bush to reveal the entrance. It's sort of sticking out, blocking a path as it is... it's also geographically close to the 1st quest's level 2 entrance (One screen east and a few screens south).

sctmorgan 09 Oct 2013, 21:35

Thanks so much for the help...but I have to say my quest is different. I can't recall when I downloaded the quest but the filename is 5thquest.qst.

bigboylink 02 Nov 2013, 06:45

Very fun quest to play and a solid contender for the winner (I do anticipate having time to play through all of the entries). My playtime for this quest was 13 hours with 19 deaths (and a bunch of restarts).

Some quick bugs/errors to report:

(1) Level 7 - In the room one east of the triforce room, pushing the block does not make a stairway appear.
(2) Similar bug - in level 5, four screens west of the triforce, pushing the block does not make a stairway appear. So if you missed the boss key, you're forced to quit/continue.
(3) Similar bug in level 9 - in the room one north + one east of the entrance.
(4) Another moving block bug in level 9 - 3 rooms east of the top-left corner, after killing the manhandla, pushing the block does not make a stairway appear.
(5) I think someone else already pointed these out but I still experienced them on the most recent download - (a) there's nothing on the Quest1-Level6 screen. (b) Entering the cave on the screen of Quest1-Level2 gets you stuck in level 3.
(6) In level 6, the string "west of old letter two" is repeated from earlier. This isn't a bug, but its existence seemed unintentional.
(7) On the "old letter two" screen, the stairway that appears is a black tile.

Here are some suggestions for improvement. Most of these are minor and don't detract too much from the quest.

(1) It wasn't obvious to me that the Moblin giving you the big wallet was actually giving you the big wallet. He only says "Mo money, mo money"; that combined with the item tile being a purple rupee led me to infer that the Moblin was in fact giving me rupees. Since I had close to 255 rupees at the time, I didn't pick up the item, since I wanted to save it for any possible later purchases. All of that said, I really like the addition of having the big wallet in this quest (and its use in levels 7-8).
(2) In level 7, [spoiler] I found pushing all of the blocks to find the boss key to be tedious. I think it would be a better choice to put the boss key near the end of the level, in the room where fighting three yellow darknuts reveals a passage that gives you 200 rupees. [/spoiler]
(3) In level 1, before getting the sword it wasn't obvious to me that there was a stairway in the dark room with the Aquamentus.
(4) The stalfos sword beams only give 1 heart of damage; why not the original two hearts?
(5) I'm having a hard time trying to decide if the quest should lose "NES-authenticity" points for having bushes and graves in dungeons. Having to bomb the column of graves in level 4 felt even less intuitive and less "NES-authentic". I'm wondering if your string "Rules wre meant to be broken" might ruffle some feathers.
(6) Regarding level 9 - [spoiler]

I'm not a fan of giving the red candle so late in the game; the biggest gripe is that it makes exploring in the overworld a chore with only the blue candle. I anticipate that this comment is likely to apply to not just Nightmare's entry.

Case in point - I believe that in LoveForFire's 4th quest entry, before it was combined with QuestWizard's dungeons, the red candle was given in level 1 for exactly the purpose of exploring what someone else has previously described as "the exploration quest" (as contrasted with Alphadawg's "combat quest"😉. Consequently, switching the red candle with the power bracelet was a very poor design choice, in my humble opinion. Indeed the first and second quests provided the red candle late in the game; however, one of the reasons that Zelda 1 has not aged well (outside the ZC community) is due to the perceived tedious overworld exploration with bombs and the blue candle. As one component of showcasing the 5th quest as an evolution from the first and second quests, the ZC community should be mindful of such perceived conerns of tedium.

So I think you should consider having another item open the entrance to level 9. Perhaps the silver arrow? I know that using the candle to burn the big tree might seem more natural, but freeing the red candle early, say in level 2, also has these advantages that (imo) outweigh that:

(a) Making exploration of level 2 easier.
(b) There's a room early in level 6 where you have to burn a bush to reveal a passage. Trying to figure this out with the blue candle is tedious. (Again, I think you lose "NES-authenticity" points for bushes in dungeons.)

[/spoiler]

(7) Another level 9 spoiler - [spoiler] Since Ganon in quest 4 takes more than 4 hits, it would seem inconsistent if he only takes 4 hits in quest 5. Again, this comment is likely to apply to not just Nightmare's entry. [/spoiler]

PS - What does the "x" clue in the waterfall indicate? I wasn't able to figure that out.

Again, this is all-in-all a solid quest. I really like the use of yellow/purple bubbles, especially with dodongos. The modifications to the overworld enemies are thoughtful (red tektikes with more health, blue moblins giving slightly more damage). Dungeon design is superb, seriously; levels 7 and 8 were very fun to play. Late-game goriyas that are immune to the boomerang is a great touch.

Playing these quests has gotten me nostalgic for the early ZC quests. This is a shot in the dark, but here goes - does anyone have links to the 3rd quest entries for Glenn the Great and TSA? (can't find any links on Pure nor zeldaclassic.com).

Sorry for the long-ish post; I hope you find it constructive and useful.

Nightmare 02 Nov 2013, 08:38

Edit: Changed the bugs, and made an update to the candles. The Blue Candle now is unlimited, the red does more damage and opens Level 9.

I can always take this out if I get bitched at, but I wonder if this will make some people happier :: cough :: Gleeok :: cough ::

-James

Nightmare 03 Nov 2013, 00:47

I am testing a new version starting later tonight:

I have:
1. Made a new enemy group for Level 4. It's not on the NES, but it's the "Undead Enemy Group" featuring Stalfos, Gibdos, and Ghinis as its main features.
2. I have removed all the bushes in dungeons. Have fun with the bomb blocks in their places.
3. Cleaned up some random enemy groups in certain areas so they conform better, left Lv. 6's Darknuts on purpose so you have something to refill Hearts with there since I can't adjust floating Wizzrobe firing rates.

I'll hopefully be posting this before the deadline, but I want to run through and make sure none of the tile overhaul left residue bugs.

-James

Gleeok 03 Nov 2013, 07:50

If you're changing stuff around still: My biggest irk was the quantity of linear paths in dungeons, which works well for new quest but not as much an NES quest [where there are a lot of rooms *cough].

I think I mentioned all that stuff to you a while back but at the time you weren't changing anything.

Nightmare 03 Nov 2013, 13:28

Gleeok wrote:If you're changing stuff around still: My biggest irk was the quantity of linear paths in dungeons, which works well for new quest but not as much an NES quest [where there are a lot of rooms *cough].

I think I mentioned all that stuff to you a while back but at the time you weren't changing anything.

That I see no reason to: Most people seem to like my dungeons so far with the exception of 5.

BTW, changed the Candle thing to a Gold Candle. CJC and I found a workaround for the Blue Candle thing. You'll enjoy this one Gleeok.

-James

Nightmare 03 Nov 2013, 16:56

Updated

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90050799/5thnightmare.zip

1. Blue, Red, and Gold Candles now. All behave as Candles do in Zelda, though the Gold does more damage and opens a secret
2. Forest and Graves taken out of the Underworld. 😞 I really thought they added a touch, but this did not go over well, so they're gone. Have fun with the Bomb Blocks in their place.
3. Blue Like-Likes adjusted so that they eat Rupees at a more threatening pace and they're not so wimpy.
4. Ganon's HP doubled, he takes 8 hits (I will not boost him more, you don't have a Master Sword in this quest).

The only thing bothering me is that 9 is still kinda easy. Do you think I should buff the enemies more?

-James