Where did everyone go?

You're beating a dead horse man.
read the change log, look at what has been and is being done.
there is no effort being made towards a stable release and there hasn't been for several years now.
People testing gave up because there was no reward for their hard work, and they were being lied to about a stable release being "any day now" only for it to drag on some 6 years.
People building quests quit because the betas would corrupt their quests and even if they did manage to release one places like pure wouldn't host it.
whole tile sets were being destroyed and corrupted.
Building a quality quest became far too time consuming to make it worth while since work had to be done over and over again because of corruptions and changes in the betas.
even the most optimistic had to finally see the light that it is history.
I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's just the way it is.
This horse is dead.

If you're lucky, you'll see a tumbleweed or two. It's sad, really. So much potential. I came back for a bit of nostalgia and started work on a new quest. I had been sticking around AGN from time to time, but hadn't checked in on ZC in a long time. I was suprised to find out that its still in beta stages. The only thing I can guess is that the developers feel much the same way that Freedom says the bugtesters fealt. Theres no real reward for this project. These developers probably have lives and jobs and much more important things to deal with than this program.

*knock on wood* The 1296 beta has been fairly stable for me so far. I'm not jumping to the latest until I test it out a bit first, though. I'm not holding my breath for a final release any time soon, but I'll keep checking in and doing a bit of bug testing every so often to help reach the eventual goal.

I'd love to see this project bringing people in droves back to AGN like it was back in 2002 and 2003. Those were fun times.

Yeah, I agree with all of you guys. If they ever had the time to release a stable 2.5, they would have done it years ago! I don't mean to be blunt, but I on the other hand, think they should just cancel the stable 2.5 release and begin the rewrite right now, seeing as the latest 2.5 betas have been as unstable as hell... :shrug:
And as to any of you who import maps from other quests, do not download build 1313, because in that build, the first thing importing maps results in is corrupting your maps, then it will crash ZQuest after a few times, and yes, the bug has been confirmed.

Besides, I've been brainstorming a boatload of ideas for version after 2.5, some I would implement if I had any knowledge of the code.

I agree 100% that a release is due, but that makes no sense to completely scrap it. If they were to drop it right now for the rewrite, they'd at least release what they have as the official version, no reason to let all that work go to waste.

I wasn't saying that it should be scrapped, I was just saying they should start the rewrite now even if it means admitting defeat and releasing an unstable 2.5.
But if they do release a stable 2.5 anytime soon, perhaps they should fix the Import Map bugs and make all the bug fixes Dark Nation keeps forgetting to commit.

This is too funny
If they can't finish what they have, what makes you think they could start it from new and then finish it?
ROFLOL

Yeah, and think of all the features _L_ had planned, but had to put on hold indefinitely. The point is, the final 2.5 release will still be unfinished when it comes out.

I think most of the genuinely significant features (such as enemy attributes / defenses) have managed to creep inside over the years in slightly humbler forms. I'm not dissatisfied with what features we've got now.

Also, there is only one Import Map bug. I know what's causing it but, currently, not how to fix it. I trust another developer can provide illumination. Other than that 1313 has less crashes than the previous builds, courtesy of Saffith.

And since you're wondering: the release candidate will be created when Saffith or one of the other fellows decides that enough of the mysterious irregular crashes have been fixed, and when Joe123 grows bored with tinkering with the script engine. And when the verified crashes such as the aforementioned are fixed. And, after all that, when either Dark Nation or jman2050 decides to do it.

_L_ wrote:I think most of the genuinely significant features (such as enemy attributes / defenses) have managed to creep inside over the years in slightly humbler forms. I'm not dissatisfied with what features we've got now.

Also, there is only one Import Map bug. I know what's causing it but, currently, not how to fix it. I trust another developer can provide illumination. Other than that 1313 has less crashes than the previous builds, courtesy of Saffith.

And since you're wondering: the release candidate will be created when Saffith or one of the other fellows decides that enough of the mysterious irregular crashes have been fixed, and when Joe123 grows bored with tinkering with the script engine. And when the verified crashes such as the aforementioned are fixed. And, after all that, when either Dark Nation or jman2050 decides to do it.

That doesn't sound like too much longer. I know you guys probably have a lot on your plates besides this side project, so it'll probably still be awhile. Keep chugging away and thanks for not completely bailing on the project. I know a lot of people are out for your heads over this, but they need to chill and realize that Zelda Classic isn't the meaning of life, and the developers have lives that revolve around more important things than this.

Anthony wrote:That doesn't sound like too much longer. I know you guys probably have a lot on your plates besides this side project, so it'll probably still be awhile. Keep chugging away and thanks for not completely bailing on the project. I know a lot of people are out for your heads over this, but they need to chill and realize that Zelda Classic isn't the meaning of life, and the developers have lives that revolve around more important things than this.

Yeah, I'm very grateful on it too.

Anthus wrote:Thank you. People need to be grateful with what we have. ZC is a free program.

Why don't you get on that release of a stable version, then, Franpa, or use 1.92. I don't understand why all of these people feel like the developers owe them something. It isn't their duty. They aren't getting paid. Its a hobby. How many hobbies have you dropped or spent less time on over the years? I mean, someone give me a good arguement as to why the developers really owe us anything. If you don't like the unstable versions, use the stable ones. You don't get your new features, but you get what you pay for, and you aren't paying anything.

franpa wrote:You do know the last stable version is many, many years old right? (1.92 beta 184)

I'm not one of those anti-ZC beta haters, I'm just saying that people should be thankful. I still mess around in 2.10.2, and I still use the newer betas. I'm not working on anything serious, since I kind of have a lot going on right now. I use ZC for fun. The devs make it for fun. they work on it when they feel inclined, and have time. I'm also surprised they haven't up and left it due to all the negativity about it.

I think Anthony is pretty right on about the whole thing. Everyone is ready to complain.

Everyone lost hope. I am not an anti-ZC hater, I am very thankful for what they have done. I just lost hope.

Anthony wrote:Why don't you get on that release of a stable version, then, Franpa, or use 1.92. I don't understand why all of these people feel like the developers owe them something. It isn't their duty. They aren't getting paid. Its a hobby. How many hobbies have you dropped or spent less time on over the years? I mean, someone give me a good arguement as to why the developers really owe us anything. If you don't like the unstable versions, use the stable ones. You don't get your new features, but you get what you pay for, and you aren't paying anything.

Anyways, I'm not trying to be mean or harsh, just saying that so far all they have to show for there work is buggy beta after buggy beta for a few years now.

Anthony
after you invest a SEVERAL years of your time beta testing and wasting YOUR fucking time, THEN you can say something to those of us who have and feel betrayed after being promised time after time a stable release for all of our hard FUCKING FREE efforts.
Until then STFU, you haven't contributed shit so who are you to tell those of us who have how to feel or what to think.

Freedom wrote:Anthony
after you invest a SEVERAL years of your time beta testing and wasting YOUR fucking time, THEN you can say something to those of us who have and feel betrayed after being promised time after time a stable release for all of our hard FUCKING FREE efforts.
Until then STFU, you haven't contributed shit so who are you to tell those of us who have how to feel or what to think.

Well, then I thank you for working towards the current state of the program and I'm sorry that you've wasted so much time. I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't have put so much time and effort into an online collaborative effort because I would be afraid it would come to the same end. I still stand by the fact that the developers are human, have lives outside of coding this project and don't have any real duty to their users. Whatever man, I guess all I can say is that I don't understand getting bent out of shape over trusting people I don't know in person...and free video games, no matter how much time you've invested in it. So I'll go ahead and STFU and continue enjoying the program when I have time to between working, going to school, doing reserve time, playing in a band, and living my life away from the computer and let sleeping dogs lie.

Anthony wrote:Well, then I thank you for working towards the current state of the program and I'm sorry that you've wasted so much time. I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't have put so much time and effort into an online collaborative effort because I would be afraid it would come to the same end. I still stand by the fact that the developers are human, have lives outside of coding this project and don't have any real duty to their users. Whatever man, I guess all I can say is that I don't understand getting bent out of shape over trusting people I don't know in person...and free video games, no matter how much time you've invested in it. So I'll go ahead and STFU and continue enjoying the program when I have time to between working, going to school, doing reserve time, playing in a band, and living my life away from the computer and let sleeping dogs lie.

A mans word should be as good online as it is in the flesh, sadly some people don't believe that.
The fault doesn't lay with those who take someones word, but to those who don't keep their word, in whatever environment.
It's sad that you have lost site of that.

Freedom wrote:A mans word should be as good online as it is in the flesh, sadly some people don't believe that.
The fault doesn't lay with those who take someones word, but to those who don't keep their word, in whatever environment.
It's sad that you have lost site of that.

I'm a viet nam era veteran
trusting someone to keep their word and holding them to their word are two different things.
I was there before they started using grease.

Freedom wrote:Anthony
after you invest a SEVERAL years of your time beta testing and wasting YOUR fucking time, THEN you can say something to those of us who have and feel betrayed after being promised time after time a stable release for all of our hard FUCKING FREE efforts.
Until then STFU, you haven't contributed shit so who are you to tell those of us who have how to feel or what to think.

How about instead of you bitching and moaning about there is no stable build out and just join the dev team and finish it yourself. I'm lucky enough to barely have time on the internet. My job, my girlfriend, and my little business takes up most of my time in life. People move on to better things and apparently you are still beating on a dead horse.

Anthony wrote:Well, then I thank you for working towards the current state of the program and I'm sorry that you've wasted so much time. I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't have put so much time and effort into an online collaborative effort because I would be afraid it would come to the same end. I still stand by the fact that the developers are human, have lives outside of coding this project and don't have any real duty to their users. Whatever man, I guess all I can say is that I don't understand getting bent out of shape over trusting people I don't know in person...and free video games, no matter how much time you've invested in it. So I'll go ahead and STFU and continue enjoying the program when I have time to between working, going to school, doing reserve time, playing in a band, and living my life away from the computer and let sleeping dogs lie.

Amen to that.

Well early on in development all that was happening was new features being added and debugged. With the introduction of scripting and the idea of changing everything to be dependent on it, there is no end in site. Why? Because there is always more script functionality to be added or existing functionality to be re-factored or updated. Changing everything to depend on scripting did nothing but introduce tons of obvious and obscure bugs and made it all temperamental and easy to create new bugs either obvious or obscure without intention while fixing another bug.

Why don't you guys launch a stable version without script an then keep working on the scripts?! or something like that 😛

There are pretty cool quests without scripting 😃

Or better yet, focus just on the bug fixing that has nothing to do with scripting, make an official release, with a warning about scripting, and then finally focus on the scripting more. Is that at least doable in any sort of way, or it is just too entangled with everything else to even make that possible? And if it is possible, is the leadership there to make sure it gets done that way? More than half of ZC's existence at this point has been post-2.10 development. Is there any way to convince anybody that has at least a hair of realism that there will ever be another stable release of ZC, at least outside of scripting? Unless the right leadership is ever there on the development team, I can't fathom any of it happening, seeing where things are now. I understand this is amateur work, and people only do this on their spare time as a hobby, people have lives, yada yada yada, point taken, point understood, and that is fine and dandy. Nevertheless, I have to admit I can understand Freedom's frustrations, which have gone on for years, and I know he is far from the only one, despite the larger crowd of people posting in this thread against him or anybody who sympathizes with that. It will never be a pleasant thing to discuss, because it is what it is, but sometimes things need to be said, pretty much.

Honestly, I think scripting might be the least entangled thing in the code. It's really pretty self-contained.
We're all ready to be finished with this. Once the crashes and other critical bugs are fixed, it's basically done.

Saffith wrote:Honestly, I think scripting might be the least entangled thing in the code. It's really pretty self-contained.
We're all ready to be finished with this. Once the crashes and other critical bugs are fixed, it's basically done.

There's only 16 bugs in the Open Beta Bugs forum, excluding NES inconsistencies. That's the lowest I've ever seen it!

You guys are doing a well job on fixing the bugs and whatever you are doing. Sorry for the pressure or inconvenience it may caused. I just haven't seen much forum activity lately. That's all. Thanks for the shardstorm changlog system which is a very awesome choice made. It help me and everyone to see what bugs it has been fixed.