The Official 4th Quest Contest

Yes, it's important that we stress that while modern design philosophies are welcome, ultimately what it comes down to is how faithful the quest is to the design of the original game and, of course, how fun it is to play. Make sure not to skimp on that last part everyone :P

I'm making some use of custom enemies in mine, but that's about it other than the very few custom tiles, and the custom dungeon palettes, which still fit in the NES palette so far. Two of those enemies are just about as strong as normal enemies, and are used psecifically for certain item drops which I won't spoil. There's also customized bosses (still all within the enemy editor functionality, and not much different than the original at this point. The only thing I'm gonna really be worried about is the Bombtoroks in level 2, as they're 4 hits and shoot lit bombs. Hopefully that won't cause too much of an issue, as other than that, it pretty much fits in with NES limitations. I decided against using new combotypes as well in the end to try to avoid straying too far from what it can do. Pretty much minus the enemies and customized shops/item drops, it fits in with what ZC 1.00 could do, which is my goal.

I think it should be strict, NES things only, with the exception of Strings. For one, it will make it so that everyone is on even ground, so to speak. And for two, things like layering, etc. were not around back then, so all those semi-advanced features suddenly being used in the fourth quest would be weird.

Also, what version do we use?

Out of curiosity, how far is everybody? I've got all the level shapes and the items they house planned out, I have some of the level locations planned, and I'm copy/pasting blank rooms to get the dungeon shapes out. How far is are you?

I've got Level-1 done. Now, I'm working on Level-2.

BTW, I have a question: When we turn in our submissions, do we do it on the Quest DataBase or by other means?

Russell wrote:Out of curiosity, how far is everybody? I've got all the level shapes and the items they house planned out, I have some of the level locations planned, and I'm copy/pasting blank rooms to get the dungeon shapes out. How far is are you?

I've completely finished the Overworld and Level 1. I've planned out the shapes of all the other levels and what items they'll contain. I am currently working on Level 2.

JP Blanchette wrote:I've got Level-1 done. Now, I'm working on Level-2.

BTW, I have a question: When we turn in our submissions, do we do it on the Quest DataBase or by other means?

Any method is fine as long as we have access to it and know you've actually finished.

I've done Level 1, some of Level 2, the overworld secrets (minus most of the entrances for the dungeons), and am now waiting for the next build so that I can choose secret combos without ZQuest crashing.

I've gotten level 1, level 2, and 3/4 of level 3 done, and a chunk of the overworld done here already. Just planning as I go instead of wasting time doing it in advance, and its coming out fairly well so far.

EDIT: Level 3 is done. Going to start on 4 tomorrow.

EDIT2: Another 2 questions I need clarification on:

1: So customized bosses made with the enmy editor are allowed? (I've assumed its a yes up to this point, as you defined a custom boss as something not made in the editor. The level 1 boss is an Aquamentus with a different cSet and more HP)

2: Also, I need to make a small hole in the desert mountains to go between there and the original level 2 entrance for the desert dungeon. I would guess that's permitted? The original way of going up the ladder from the screen below is still there of course. Just adding another entry. I'm also changing around the enemies on the overworld to go with the increased difficulty. Is that ok to do also?

Question.

d) In maintaining consistency with the first three quests, the overworld must remain almost entirely identical to those quests. There may
be subtle aesthetic differences (such as changing the entrance of a dungeon to the entrance of a cave) but aside that must be the same.
Note that you are free to rearrange secret entrances, item locations, and cave types to your liking, but any entrances that are NOT
secrets must remain in the same place, though of course they don't have to LEAD to the same place...

However, from 1st to 2nd quest, there WERE some Overworld differences concerning entrances. If memory doesn't fail me, the Level 5 Entrance in 1st became a Fairy Pond in the 2nd, the Level 2 Entrance in the 1st was submerged into a lake in which you have to use the whistle to enter Level 3 in the 2nd...

...are changes like these permitted, then? Or must we stay faithful to the other overworlds? If the latter, then which one? 1st or 2nd quest?

EDIT: Also, are we able to change the warps? As in, from Cave/Item warps to a Instant Warp w/Blackout to another screen in extra maps (that look the same as a cave)?

Those changes were what I was referring to when I said "almost identical". I forgot about changing the entrance to a fairy pond though. Changes of those type are permitted if used sparingly.

Got it. Thanks. Also, are multiple tile warps in the same screen allowed? Including the overworld?

Well, you can't change the overworld in the first place, so no multiple warps in the overworld, as there were never any multiple warps there in the original.

You could add multiple secret caves though, right?

[QUOTE='ShadowTiger']Well, you can't change the overworld in the first place, so no multiple warps in the overworld, as there were never any multiple warps there in the original.[/QUOTE]

No, I mean... one cave already existing in the oveworld and a second cave that is only discovered by a secret.

EDIT:
[QUOTE='Shazza Dani']You could add multiple secret caves though, right?[/QUOTE]

...or like that. (Reminder to self: read every post there is before posting a reply. >>; )

The number of caves/entrances must be the same and in the same location as 1st/2nd/3rdquest (/ means "or"😉

Rule 2d.

But, the rules say you can add secret caves (ones that you bomb open).

Russell wrote:But, the rules say you can add secret caves (ones that you bomb open).

This basically. Don't forget armoses and pushable rocks either.

So it does need to be the exact same number of secrets and of the same types? And what about my question on changing the screen enemies? Because I've already started moving secrets to totally different spots/wiping some out/adding others and redoing all the enemies on each screen.

you don't need the same number of secrets. That'd just be silly.

Changing the onscreen enemies is fine, provided the changes are minor and in spirit with the rest of the game.

jman2050 wrote:This basically. Don't forget armoses and pushable rocks either.

This actually doesn't really answer the question of multiple warps per screen. This only says (Due to defaulting to the minimum in case of a post like mine here.) that we're allowed to add secrets to screens that don't already have them. Doesn't mean we can have more than one secret on the same screen.

However, rest assured, I am certainly expecting a yes. Though that doesn't quite account for room types though, as you still have to use screen 80, which disallows more than one Room Type per screen.

And another quest has arisen... must the level dungeons all fit under one DMap? Or are we allowed to use more than one DMap per dungeon if, say, it's bigger than what the limits allow?

I've made some additions and clarifications to the rules, as I assume is my right as a judge. Most all of what I added is commonsense, though!

If you want to be a bit more adherent to NES limitations, here is a familiar-looking chart:

Note that this actually applies to palettes, not levels themselves. For instance, level 2 of Second Quest used palette #3 - hence the Manhandlas and Darknuts.

....

Incidentally... I've been thinking about the password for the 4th quest. I'm personally wanting it to fit in with the ZELDA password. How about, say, GANON? (Note: this is deliberately not GANNON)

See comments in bold.

* Levels must use one of the NES dungeon palettes, and two or more levels can't use the same palette. Level 9 must use "White/Red".

Gah, there went the time I spent making some new palettes that actually match the levels.

* "Dungeon entrance" refers to the First Quest screens containing the entrances to the first six dungeons. It's unlikely that you'll be
permitted to change the structure of 0x6D (which is in the middle of a forest) and 0x05 (Spectacle Rock).

Now I've gotta revert 0x05 as I changed it slightly to add in a mouth shape at the bottom since its a face shrine in mine. I would also assume that the small 1-tile high hole I cut between the desert area and the screen with the original L2 entrance has to be reverted too?

* You can also change a dungeon entrance into a fairy pool or a whistle->stairs pool, and vice versa. And, of course, you can
change First Quest's existing whistle->stairs pool into a fairy pool or an ordinary pool with no secrets. But don't overdo this.

I hope this won't cause too much trouble, cause I switched that one to a bomb secret, then switched a fairy pool elsewhere to a whistle-stairs one.

* The same restrictions also apply to Item Drop Sets. Also, Item Drop Sets can't contain items with the "Equipment Item" flag checked.

Shot me again. I had a L2 Peahat set for letter drops, and a custom moldorm (rock worm) set for the bracelet.

Gah, there went the time I spent making some new palettes that actually match the levels.

Now I've gotta revert 0x05 as I changed it slightly to add in a mouth shape at the bottom since its a face shrine in mine. I would also assume that the small 1-tile high hole I cut between the desert area and the screen with the original L2 entrance has to be reverted too?

I hope this won't cause too much trouble, cause I switched that one to a bomb secret, then switched a fairy pool elsewhere to a whistle-stairs one.

Shot me again. I had a L2 Peahat set for letter drops, and a custom moldorm (rock worm) set for the bracelet.

P.S: I decided just now that two more quest rules can be permitted. See first post!

Questwizard88 wrote:See comments in bold.

Gah, there went the time I spent making some new palettes that actually match the levels.

It seems to be a point in contention, so all of us devs should probably get together and find out where we stand on this. L makes a good point that the NES palette was pretty restrictive, but it seems like an unnecessary stipulation to me.

Now I've gotta revert 0x05 as I changed it slightly to add in a mouth shape at the bottom since its a face shrine in mine. I would also assume that the small 1-tile high hole I cut between the desert area and the screen with the original L2 entrance has to be reverted too?

I somehow missed your previous post mentioning this. Really, one of the biggest thematic elements between all the official quests is that their overworlds are pretty much identical. _L_ basically outlined the permitted and non-permitted changes I was thinking of when I mentioned "aesthetic differences".

I hope this won't cause too much trouble, cause I switched that one to a bomb secret, then switched a fairy pool elsewhere to a whistle-stairs one.

As L said, that's fine

Shot me again. I had a L2 Peahat set for letter drops, and a custom moldorm (rock worm) set for the bracelet.[/QUOTE]

Also as L said, enemies can carry items, why can't you just do that?

Questwizard88 wrote:See comments in bold.

Gah, there went the time I spent making some new palettes that actually match the levels.

It seems to be a point in contention, so all of us devs should probably get together and find out where we stand on this. L makes a good point that the NES palette was pretty restrictive, but it seems like an unnecessary stipulation to me.

Now I've gotta revert 0x05 as I changed it slightly to add in a mouth shape at the bottom since its a face shrine in mine. I would also assume that the small 1-tile high hole I cut between the desert area and the screen with the original L2 entrance has to be reverted too?

I somehow missed your previous post mentioning this. Really, one of the biggest thematic elements between all the official quests is that their overworlds are pretty much identical. _L_ basically outlined the permitted and non-permitted changes I was thinking of when I mentioned "aesthetic differences".

I hope this won't cause too much trouble, cause I switched that one to a bomb secret, then switched a fairy pool elsewhere to a whistle-stairs one.

As L said, that's fine

Shot me again. I had a L2 Peahat set for letter drops, and a custom moldorm (rock worm) set for the bracelet.

Also as L said, enemies can carry items, why can't you just do that?

I reverted those desert changes and killed the rocks at the level 9 entrance. The bracelet's now carried on a screen with a stronger enemy (had to mod the enemies on just that screen). I ended up just moving the letter back into a secret cave. I also did just change the trunk color on 4 trees in the overworld, as its gonna be significant to a certain set of secrets you have to get after level 4..

By the way, the dungeon palettes I had do fit with the NES palette limitations, using the "fixed" slightly darker version of the palette that the game icons use now, which makes me wonder why the proposed quests all use the old brightened palette still, when in reality they should be using the fixed one.
If you're curious, here they are: http://www.questwizard.net/misccrap/qw4thnewdgnpal.png

Question, are we allow to change the whistle warp/3-stair warp locations.

_L_ wrote:

Just an observation… I'm guessing the first enemy is supposed the be a Fireball, right? Because Moldorm uses the same sprite as the Fireballs, and you didn't include Moldorm on that chart anywhere.