franpa wrote:I think, we just need to stop scaring people away from using the latest alpha/beta for quest building and playing quests with. that way 2.5 will actually come to fruition before the end of 2008.more people use it = larger debugging group.
I use the latest 2.5 beta, and I can say that it is both quite stable and adds a TON of new features. If everyone that uses 2.10 just knew how much more stuff was in it, I'm sure that a lot of people would switch over to it.
Yes, Pineconns idea rests upon 2.5 actually existing at some point 'soon' so i think what i said just above is what needs to be done.
you should be telling people about the new features and stuff more. putting emphasis on its bugs and glitches is stupid and counterproductive to getting a big user base for debugging it.
russadwan wrote:And if it gets advertized in Nintendo Power, chances are it will get profitable and Nintendo will shut it down. That's why I think it's a bad idea.
Why does that mean it'll become profitable?
Yeah, I think Joe123 meant "profitable" as "we get money."
I think Nintendo looks at ZC differently than ROMs. I believe they view ROMs as piracy and a form of their losing money, so they shut them down. However, I think when they see ZC, a project that was homebrewed, they view it much more favorably as a gratifying fan project and tribute to Zelda.
Well, either that, or they never found it since ZC doesn't show up by typing in "Zelda ROM". 😃
Pineconn wrote:Well, either that, or they never found it since ZC doesn't show up by typing in "Zelda ROM". 😃
ZC will always be free. The day we start charging for it is the day we get buried in DMCA cease-and-desist notices.
They definitely know about us - several troublemakers in the past have tried to shut down AGN by reporting us. They just figure that ZC benefits them more as free advertising for the franchise than hurts their profit margin.
DarkDragon wrote:They just figure that ZC benefits them more as free advertising for the franchise than hurts their profit margin.
The DMCA can go die. The ESA can go die.
I made this thread a poll. Vote! (It is not a public poll, so no one will be able to see what choice you selected.)
The Classic/BS/Pure Set graphics, items, enemies, and 1st and 2nd Quests make up the only content that is questionable on legality. The editor and player themselves and all fan quests and custom graphics are completely legal.
Your poll lacks the 4th option...
No it is not a good idea.
...why would we say it's a terrible idea?
It's a great idea.
Popularity is waning.
Its happened before how did you think i found it
yes i was looking thought an Nintendo mag (NGC) (what i live in the UK) and seen Zelda classic make you own Zelda games i said well this is for me.
SO yes this would work (not a think a would)
beefster09 wrote:The Classic/BS/Pure Set graphics, items, enemies, and 1st and 2nd Quests make up the only content that is questionable on legality. The editor and player themselves and all fan quests and custom graphics are completely legal.
What about fan quests that use Nintendo's graphics? I don't know of too many quests that are 100% custom graphics. Even non-Zelda quests often use Nintendo's graphics from Mario, Metroid, etc.
beefster, don't forget the legality issue's behind fully simulating a retail game in every way including level design.
I said "questionable" meaning it could be legal, but there's a decent chance it isn't. The graphics are probably fine.
I mentioned the level design when I said 1st and 2nd quests.
The actual programming code is legal, since it is not exactly the same; it's reverse-engineered, which is legal. Plus, it's a lot less efficient; it uses more RAM than the NES or even the SNES or N64 had.
Pineconn wrote:Yeah, I think Joe123 meant "profitable" as "we get money."I think Nintendo looks at ZC differently than ROMs. I believe they view ROMs as piracy and a form of their losing money, so they shut them down. However, I think when they see ZC, a project that was homebrewed, they view it much more favorably as a gratifying fan project and tribute to Zelda.
Well, either that, or they never found it since ZC doesn't show up by typing in "Zelda ROM". 😃
Actually zc did come up when I typed "zelda rom" back in the days of 1.92 . Thats how I found out about zc, long ago. But yeah I don't think Nintendo would do any thing about it because its free, and none of the .qst's are being sold! So Why would the trip?
Plus, Nintendo doesn't strike me as the kind of company that would do that anyway. I don't think the content is questionable enough for something too bad to happen.
You could write a formal letter to Nintendo asking whether we'd be allowed to advertise in a magazine.
ennonfenom wrote:Actually zc did come up when I typed "zelda rom" back in the days of 1.92 . Thats how I found out about zc, long ago. But yeah I don't think Nintendo would do any thing about it because its free, and none of the .qst's are being sold! So Why would the trip?
That's similar to how I found out about ZC. I had played Outlands and wanted to hack Zelda 1, but there were very few utilities like level editors...apparently Outlands was almost entirely done by directly changing bytes in the ROM with a hex editor! This was 2003, and I think there are more utilities now, but I always used to wonder why so little work went into modding one of the most popular NES games ever. (I originally came from the Mario modding community, which was saturated with hacks even then and there were many very powerful utilities.) Then I Googled every possible thing I could think of..."zelda rom data" and "zelda level editor" and "legend of zelda hacking" and such. At some point, I saw mention of Zelda Classic, which I had vaguely heard of but didn't know what it was. When I saw that Zelda Classic had a level editor, I immediately tried to learn how it worked and make my planned hack into a ZC quest. I never came close to finishing it.
Unless I hear differently from DN or War Lord, I'm not going to give official endorsement to any plan which might draw the attention of the Evil Eye that is Nintendo's anti-piracy division.
On the other hand, I'm powerless to stop any campaign undertaken by our fans 😉
Joe123 wrote:You could write a formal letter to Nintendo asking whether we'd be allowed to advertise in a magazine.
"Dear Nintendo,
We'd like to advertise a possibly illegal program in Nintendo Power in order to gain more popularity. This program happens to feature a near-exact copy of one of your best-selling video games of all time. Can we? For more details, you can go to www.zeldaclassic.com.
Regards,
Armageddon Games Community"
Yes, I'm not too sure about that. 😉
beefster09 wrote:it's reverse-engineered, which is legal.
depends on the EULA, im not too sure if such clauses where popular back then but these days reverse engineering retail products is a big no-no.
�_�
"Dear Nintendo,
I am a member of a fan-game community supporting your popular Legend of Zelda series of computer games.
We feel that the community is a great way of advertising your merchandise, and are all keen to buy more of your games.
Lately, however, we've waned in popularity, and as a way of trying to attract new members, we may advertise in Nintedo Power.
Regards
AGN"
That sounds good, without exactly telling them 'Lookie' Lookie' Nintendo, we've got an exact copy of your NES game, you wanna' know more about it?'
Pineconn wrote:"Dear Nintendo,
We'd like to advertise a possibly illegal program in Nintendo Power in order to gain more popularity. This program happens to feature a near-exact copy of one of your best-selling video games of all time. Can we? For more details, you can go to www.zeldaclassic.com.
Regards,
Armageddon Games Community"
Yes, I'm not too sure about that. 😉
Joe123 wrote:�_�
"Dear Nintendo,
I am a member of a fan-game community supporting your popular Legend of Zelda series of computer games.
We feel that the community is a great way of advertising your merchandise, and are all keen to buy more of your games.
Lately, however, we've waned in popularity, and as a way of trying to attract new members, we may advertise in Nintedo Power.
Regards
AGN"
I personally don't think this is a good idea because the current state of copyright law makes us look like a bunch of thieves. Even if we're not taking money that other people would actually be giving to Nintendo, we're "inducing piracy" by offering their game in a free form at all, never mind that the program's primary function now is the creation of fan works (which, while on murky legal ground in and of itself, I feel will eventually end up legal if there's any hope at all left for this country).
I agree that from any sane (as opposed to legal) perspective, ZC should be regarded as free advertising; on top of that, it should be considered a good portfolio-building tool for an aspiring game designer. But the fact is, corporate interests have corrupted US law such that they're no longer in line with what some might call the common law, and now those money-grubbing ideas are even being exported. -- Pteryx
Personally I don't think it is a good idea. Why risk ZC? I love this program to death. And I don't want it going away just to get on a magazine. Nintendo and Nintendo Power know about us, that is no secret. I know that they think ZC is free adverting, but Nintendo is a business. And you know that they have the money to shut us down. It is not like we can get lawyers to make a case. Plus, I don't think ZC is booming right now. If you really wanted to do this, why not do it at a time, say when 2.5 is released, so that we actually can have a good portfolio to show. ZC is stale right now as everyone really can't release their quests or are updating there quests to the betas. I just think it is a bad time... even if you do.
Pineconn's whole plan revolved around releasing it once 2.5 came out.
Hmm...I remember a topic was about this a while back. I said the same thing there I will here. The number of "OMG hau du u lod qwst?" messages. Funny...haha no.
But I also remember that not too long ago, the nes copyright ran out from Nintendo, and thus it became legal to do whatever to the system. Correct me if I'm wrong(I probably am) but by extention, does that not mean that the games went with it? Just thinking.
Another topic comes from the other ZC site. Many of you know which one. The thing was that nintendo would overdevelop the progam where it would be easy to make the Lost Isle, MMDWRDC, Hero of Dreams, and Neofirst over the course of about 2 days. I think that is a reason.
Final point:
I have the old Johnamus mentality still, that if they care enough, they will just search for it. That's how I found it anyways. The search was for..."kick ass zelda editor"I think.
That is my points for the discussion at hand.
-Sir Johnamus Otassimeaux
Sir_Johnamus wrote:
But I also remember that not too long ago, the nes copyright ran out from Nintendo, and thus it became legal to do whatever to the system.
In the case of Japan (where Zelda and the NES (Famicom) were developed), all copyrights last at least 50 years. It's similar in most countries. You may be thinking of patents, which have shorter lifespans.