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The first 8 minutes of gameplay

66 replies · 83,165 views · Started 12 December 2007

_L_ 12 Dec 2007, 06:05

At last! Something approaching a functional demonstration!

For latecomers, here is your file: http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/NeoFirst_02.qst. (Requirements: build 743 or newer.)

This demo begins at the very start of the game, and ends when Link escapes with the level 1 sword. You explore a fairly short 'swordless' dungeon.

* The opening text is a tad cramped, owing to my crafty avoidance of gendered pronouns. I intend the narrator's identity to be ambiguous until the end of the game (whereupon it will go one of both ways.)
* All cutscenes are 100% scripted, and involve no screen warping. This is a standard I hope will be mostly maintained throughout the quest!
* Link starts with 10 rupees so that he can purchase one of the shop's item right away. Of course, the shop isn't built yet. Link's house is, but the sprite for Link's mother isn't.
* The forest is a very tricky place. Fairies love illusions, you know...
* Hey, you can talk to things with the A button! Like those brown birds. Or that pile of bones. And read the signs, too!
* Pay attention to the cave entrance screen. Is there anything else worth grabbing?
* You can't meet the Spirit of Winter until you get the Flippers and swim to the other entrance.
* If Link gets the medallion-shaped object, then the dungeon boss's life bar will be visible. Of course, there aren't any dungeon bosses this soon in the game.
* Spoilers: So that the player gets to use a never-before-seen item right away, I changed the level 1 candle into one of these things. I then replaced all of the "Blue Candle" flags and secret combos in the quest with "Red Candle" flags and secret combos, so that this new item's weapon can't be used to burn things down.
* With no bomb bags, Link's bomb capacity is exactly 1.
* Spoilers: "Moon Tower" is an tower in the Mystic Forest that is invisible on the outside. Legend has it that it extends all the way up to the stars. I intend it to be a place like Wind Waker's Labyrinth or the Paper Mario's Pit of 100 Trials - an enemy gauntlet. Also, a one-way portal from the Mirror/Chaos Realm is in B1F.

Q&A:

Q: Why is there ice in the water?
A: Because it's a Winter Garden!

Q: Well, why isn't there any snow?
A: It doesn't snow in caves, silly!

Q: Link doesn't seem very heroic.
A: In most tales, a hero is something that the protagonist becomes, not something that the protagonist is born into.

Some tileset changes of note:

* I made some sprites for the "Chaos Zol".
* I made the crystal orb tiles into 8-bit red and blue orbs.
* Added some combos that are used by various scripted elements.
* I don't like having to set a bunch of secret combos whenever I want to use "corner tall grass" combos. So, I've shifted around those combos and changed them into "Slash->Next (Item)" combos, in preparation for the time when the ability to make "Grass->Next" is implemented.
* Certain damage combos have been made solid. You can do that now.
* Some doors in some door combo sets have been fixed.

Tile shopping list:

Several parts of the quest use placeholder graphics. I intend some actual tile artists to create appetising replacements for the following:

* Link tile - Link holding onto the branches of that tree at the start.
* Spiderwebs for obstructing log tunnel entrances. (Minish Cap)
* Bomb flower item tile.
* Grass whistle item tile.
* Bee Smoker item tile.
* Bee Smoker's smoke tiles.
* Large floating ice tile.
* Magic mirror tiles.

Din 12 Dec 2007, 20:14

Ooh, the scripts seem cool, when I get home I am SO going to play the quest. This is going to be fun. Nice work, _L_.

Dark Nation 12 Dec 2007, 21:28

Okay, after you get the bee smoker, then what? I know you can use it to make the Sylphs visible and you use it to wake up the Dodongo. Where do you go next?

beefster09 12 Dec 2007, 22:04

Is the tutorial aspect of neofirst still there? It was indeed the original intention of the project y'know. I also think we should show them some of the old tricks, just to prove that scripting is simply optional.

Pineconn 13 Dec 2007, 01:01

I know I sound like a n00b, but what version is this for? I tried 693 and it wouldn't open. I suspect, however, that the quest file may have downloaded improperly.

Sillycat2 13 Dec 2007, 01:57

Rename it to NeoFirst.qst and it will work on 692 and 693.
And by the way, I really like this quest. Keep it up, guys.

Pheonix 13 Dec 2007, 02:20

I feel idiotic right now... where do I go? After getting to the screen with the save point, I get stuck.

ShadowTiger 13 Dec 2007, 03:44

Look for places to walk along the water.

Also look for walls you can walk through in the northern eastern portion of the cave. Pretty awesome stuff, L. I'll get you the graphics you'd like; Particularly the items. Also, absolutely awesome bees. (We so rarely get to say things like that. 😛 )

_L_ 13 Dec 2007, 04:27

Dark Nation wrote:Okay, after you get the bee smoker, then what? I know you can use it to make the Sylphs visible and you use it to wake up the Dodongo. Where do you go next?

Listen to the ghost next to the medallion-like object. It's southwest of the bee room, so to speak.

Gleeok 13 Dec 2007, 04:58

Link seems to get caught in an infinite spinning loop...round and round he goes, when he stops...never!
I think those are the sylphs..the whirlwind guys, plus in the southern ice room it happens too. Is anyone else getting stuck here?

Very slick quest so far though. Excellent work!...I am intrigued by this, "Moon Tower", and this procedurally generated enemy gauntlet of which you speak. Would you care to elaborate on this more, and perhaps have the need for some "enemy boss designers" at some later date once construction of the tower commences? Scripted of coarse, we must maintain these high standards after all.

Pheonix 13 Dec 2007, 14:01

I wasn't talking about a save point in a cave. I was talking about the one in the forest surrounded by bushes, with the pit blocking access to the north screen, and the logger's house to the left.

ShadowTiger 13 Dec 2007, 22:01

I wasn't talking about a save point in a cave. I was talking about the one in the forest surrounded by bushes, with the pit blocking access to the north screen, and the logger's house to the left.
Ah, that area is just something I cooked up to go through along the way to Level 1. (Which _L_ has not been working in, on, near, or around.) As you enter the dark forest, (I.e. from your starting location,) go south, then west, then south through the tree log. (Note that I don't have the quest in front of me.) Then look for ways to bypass the illusions, (Walk EVERYWHERE on every screen. EVERYWHERE.) and proceed toward the North after you reach the log puzzle. (Which I never actually solved. Just look in the upper left portion of the screen for a blue bush; It's an illusion.) Then, save if you wish, and look for places where the land next to the river sort of meets. They're walkable. Try to go to the lower left area behind the small cluster of trees to walk behind them to cross to the west, where you can pick up a one-use whistle. (It's annoying that it's one-use only, but we'll deal.) Then you get to cross another little area of the river to enter the cave.

Pheonix 14 Dec 2007, 03:02

After gettting the bee smoker, I don't know what to do. The whirlwind doesn't come over to the side I'm on when I go back into the cave, and I don't see a way out of the little forest area where the bee smoker is.

Dark Nation 14 Dec 2007, 03:58

There's an invisible sylph (whirlwind) near the top of the water. You can use the bee smoker to make it show up (though you can use it even if it's invisible).

ShadowTiger 14 Dec 2007, 08:24

That Sylph lets you jump over the 2x3 wall barrier too to reach that key, right? If so, those graphics could be changed. They're more associated with size-restricted boundaries than not, and can impede the creative-solutionary progress.

I've got a lot of tilework to do here. Shimmering walls, faint whisps of Sylph wind, most of the new items' etc. Usually, even though illusionary walls are a great device to use, there should be at least some small sign that should tip you off to their presence.

Incredible bees though, L. :clap: I still wonder if they were made with so mant tiny FFC's or not for its inherent smoothness.

_L_ 14 Dec 2007, 12:42

ShadowTiger wrote:That Sylph lets you jump over the 2x3 wall barrier too to reach that key, right?
Getting that key is not so easy! Even if that room's sylphs could throw Link that far, jumping onto unwalkable combos isn't something that I intend him to do very much in this quest.

ShadowTiger wrote:I've got a lot of tilework to do here. Shimmering walls, faint whisps of Sylph wind, most of the new items' etc. Usually, even though illusionary walls are a great device to use, there should be at least some small sign that should tip you off to their presence.
Well, I personally consider the illusions to be a modern continuation of Second Quest's walkthrough walls. But, more importantly, they serve to discourage the player from being complacent with their surroundings - a lesson which is best taught early in the game, while the players are still developing a sense of the game world's rules and vocabulary.

And, for what it's worth, the only genuinely out-of-the-way illusionary wall (in this cave at least) is gently hinted at by the ghost next to the medallion.

Imprisoned 14 Dec 2007, 14:58

Hahaha, Bee Smoker... cool. Gotta give it a try.

Okay... I've tried it, and I have to say...

The overworld is nicely made and I just love the design of the Mystic Forest, but if there's
no real location for tile warps (yet) in a public version, they should

a) not exist
b) be blocked by unwalkable combos

So I had to restart and restart the game all the time again because of my curiosity (hey, what's over there?).
And how do I save? I'm not familiar with this new system with no continue menu.

Also I couldn't find the damn scrubs. I suck.

YAY I found a triforce piece! (or some other random triangle thing. What do you think it is) Anyway, I got stuck inside some brush and got to restart. Boo hoo.

Joe123 14 Dec 2007, 17:18

I don't appear to be able to find the Bee Smoker?
I have a Grass Whistle, and I've found that room where you have to walk through the wall with the two syplhs, but the Bee Smoker is not apparent.
Also, in the room three north from the entrance, just to the top right of the dead tree is a bit of crap on layer 3 that looks rather unusual.

_L_ 15 Dec 2007, 04:21

Joe123 wrote:I've found that room where you have to walk through the wall with the two syplhs, but the Bee Smoker is not apparent

Oh, right, that room. It isn't important at the moment. You need the flippers to get the Big Key anyway. Your goal at this point is to cross the water in the previous room.

Imprisoned wrote:Also I couldn't find the damn scrubs. I suck.

From the start: south, west, west, south, west, and so on.

Joe123 15 Dec 2007, 09:08

Eh?
I did that but I can't seem to do anything in the next room, all I found was a dead guy telling me that the bee smoker almost worked at getting rid of the bees, and the fact that I don't seem to be able to get past the bees to get that potion type thing on the other side...

ShadowTiger 15 Dec 2007, 17:24

Yeah, they're not unwalkable. (Not like REAL bees. Those things are badass, yo. lol!) Perhaps quests like Lost Isle have raised our standards a bit with actual unwalkable traps, like spike combos that are only halfway walkable; You can walk on them to get hurt, but can never get past them to what they guard. Truly nasty business for the brave, that. Bees are just bees. You can walk past them to get at them. It'd actually be rather wise to place a "heart plant" on the screen with them as a little hint that you can walk through the bee field.

I.e. something like a bomb flower, how it always grows back when you re-enter the screen. Just a little script to spawn a heart there every few seconds, unless there's already a heart there.

_L_ 15 Dec 2007, 17:28

If the bee problem has left you at the end of your tether, you can just take the stings. This isn't Yoshi's Story, World 4, you know.

Besides, the actual official no-damage solution to that problem is a bit tricky even by my standards: "_____ doth calm the savage beast."

Joe123 15 Dec 2007, 23:21

OK, so I played the whistle for the bees and got the bee smoker. I woke up the dodongo, got past it and onto the ice raft, got a blue rupee, then got the raft stuck on the dock where I first left and now can't use it. I then made the sylph by the medallion thing visible, but it didn't help in me being able to get past it.

All in all, not very much further ¬_¬

ShadowTiger 16 Dec 2007, 03:21

then got the raft stuck on the dock where I first left and now can't use it.
Er, which side? There are three sides you can leave the raft on: Lower, upper right by the chest, and upper left. There's at least one illusionary wall by the chest. (To its right, I believe.)

I then made the sylph by the medallion thing visible, but it didn't help in me being able to get past it.
I didn't get past it either. Would love some tips.

To get the key:[spoiler]
Also, when you need to get the key, there's a little square lake one screen north of the solitary fairy fountain in the room with the western locked door. Somewhere on the right side of that lake, (On the water.) you can smoke/burn an invisible Slyph. The fairy will be roving in a square path above the lake. Use the Sylph there to grab the key from midair. It's tough, but it does work if you're tenacious. [/spoiler]