Hey Testers

I think were getting close to!😊
Doesnt NeoFirst have to completed before 2.5s final release?

I sure hope not, it doesn't even look close to me.

I think alot of people are too busy playing lost isle and origin to test right now. And Neofirst? That probably needs to get kicked to the curb, unless you wan't to wait another year for something stable.

I'm seeing a lot of bugs being reported in earlier builds, shouldn't we be checking the latest (492 as of today) for bugs?

We'll i'm using 492, but the problem is i've been doing tileset work for awhile, thus not exploring the new stuff.

If you ask me, I think NeoFirst has ballooned up to just another quest, with all the additions placed on it. The additions and new plot and everything is/are cool and all, but ... it's a quest. You can just as easily make an exhibition quest (Like it was supposed to be...) on your own, assuming you know what to do. If enough people get together and pool their knowledge of ZC, ... well, ... that's practically too trivial to even complete the thought. Documentation should come first, and if done right, a quest like NeoFirst doesn't even need to exist, as the casual newcomer could use the documentation to do it for him/herself without needing to reference NeoFirst. (The tutorials and documentation could have nicely detailed screenshots.)

In the meantime, I'd honestly love to pin this. If you think it's not cluttered up there in terms of pinned threads, ... end of sentence. 😊

Yup, I'm totally guilty of playing LI the last few days. Sorry 😊

ShadowTiger, you're a mod in here, just go ahead and pin it next time. If I don't like it I'll just unpin it and ban you 😉

NeoFirst has, in my opinion, elevated from just "Demo Quest 2" to something much more important: a complete, full (but concise) plot-driven (but not plot-dominant) quest that is distributed with every copy of ZC. An all-new, never-before-seen, 21st century First Quest.

Zelda Classic, despite its numerous revisions, is still generally perceived as just a NES Zelda player and editor, capable mostly of First Quest remixes. The inclusion of NeoFirst will raise ZC to the statuas of a fangame in its own right.

DarkDragon wrote:Yup, I'm totally guilty of playing LI the last few days. Sorry 😊

Good job guys. Release LI before 2.5 is done and look what happens. Haha..OK, so i've been playing LI too. Anyone not playing that's probably got their hands on Origin. What can you do?

Yes, i'm sure Neofirst is gonna kick some serious ass when it's finished, question is how long till it's done? Heh, you probably got enough scripts in there to be able to change the name of it to "The Bible part 2".

But I agree with Freedom, We need people testing the new builds!

I got someone only the other day on Pure asking me for LI's password so he could take a look at how quests are made ... nice try, newbie. But I told him he should take a look at Neofirst, I think what makes it more than just another quest is the fact that it's unpassworded so you can look "behind the scenes" as well.

Hey testers. Has anybody been messing with the enemy editor? And I don't mean adding some HP here, or raising weapon damage there. I mean creating enemies the world of Zelda has never seen before.

It's been a complete nightmare for me. Nothing works the way _L_ says it's supposed to,(slightly exagerated) and if you've read the enemy misc explained thread, then you know that their is many questions without answers. At least for me.

Just wondering if anybody has been testing this.

Gleeok wrote:Hey testers. Has anybody been messing with the enemy editor? And I don't mean adding some HP here, or raising weapon damage there. I mean creating enemies the world of Zelda has never seen before.

It's been a complete nightmare for me. Nothing works the way _L_ says it's supposed to,(slightly exagerated) and if you've read the enemy misc explained thread, then you know that their is many questions without answers. At least for me.

Just wondering if anybody has been testing this.

Just keep reporting it as bugs, otherwise we might be living with it. 😉
When I ask the question about shield/shieldless darknuts and nobody responded I figured nobody knew and it wasn't being used and tested.

As of August 5, 2007, there are like three whole pages of bug reports awaiting fixes.

Daaaaamn guys. The bugs are winning!

dont forget the quarentined bugs =)

C-Dawg wrote:As of August 5, 2007, there are like three whole pages of bug reports awaiting fixes.

Daaaaamn guys. The bugs are winning!

Shit, I had to go all the way to page 5 or 6 so I wouldn't post a duplicate bug a day or two ago.

The good news though is that it's getting more stable to build on. I don't have to worry as much about things like "oh shit, I cant use this or that because it will crash or get corrupted." The main annoyance for me is the enemy editor bugs right now. I have to leave screens empty and fill them in later with the enemies I want.

Alot of annoyance bugs in general still remain though....

Well now it's August 9 and it's been like a graveyard for a week. So, does this mean b18 is soon coming?

no, it means darkdragon left on a trip 😊 i think were aiming at getting all current bugs worked out before a beta 18, and as noted, there are still several pages of bugs.

Hey guys, gotta few questions. Not sure if some of them are bugs or not:

Enemies-> permanent secrects. Never used this before, but it's not doing anything. How's it work?

Room state carry over. Can these be used without timed warp?

And you can combo cycle on layers, right?

Oops, I just figuered the next 2 out that I was gonna type...all for now.

Wait, wasn't there new string features? Like the ability to put a string on any screen without a "guy". I can't find it. I'm trying to get around the multiple Dmaps being used for "talking bosses".

Room state carry over. Can these be used without timed warp?

And you can combo cycle on layers, right?

Room State Carryover in more detail:

Each screen keeps track of whether secrets have been triggered there or not. Normally, the only way to set triggers on a screen is to activate a secret trigger on that screen, right? Well, with Room State Carryovers, one room's triggered-or-not status will carry-over to a second room. So, say you have a switch (trigger->permanent) at Map 0, Screen 00. On that screen, say you set your Room State Carryover to Map 1, Screen 11. Now, activating the switch on Map 0, Screen 00, will cause secrets to trigger automatically on Map 1, Screen 11. Neat, huh?

One snag. As far as I can tell, Carryovers only work if the original flag is permanent. In other words, temporary secrets don't stay set because they go away when you leave the screen and return. So you have to use permanent->trigger combos. Or, if you want enemies->secret flag to trigger secrets and activate the Carryover, you need to also check enemies->permanent secret. Get the synergy between the two?

This is awesome for custom bosses, making setup a snap (after you've scripted it). In your dungeon, set up the usual boss room with pit warps taking the player to an identical screen where the boss lives. Plaster the pit warps with secret flags so that, when secrets are triggered, the pits go away. On the screen with the boss, ensure that killing the boss activates permanent secrets somehow (I use enemies->Permanent secrets) and warps you back to the first room. Then set the Room State Carryover in the boss room so that the first room follows the boss. Fun! Much faster than using Boss Flags and Trigger enemies.

Research left to be done: At some point, someone over at PureZC claimed that you could "toggle" Room State Carryovers, making Crystal Switches ala LttP totally easy to do. I've never been able to do this, and whoever it is has never offered a detailed explaination for how he pulls this off. In my experience, once you set permanent secrets, the Carryover triggers are all set forever, and can't be undone by any combo or flag.

Sweet, thanks guys.

The permanent enemies->secret thing is making me mad though. I had gone as far as setting the dungeon boss flag on the room. And that didn't work! It must be some conflift with the "enemies always return" flag. Hooray for no documentation!!! Yay.
What the hell, i'll just post it as a bug.

THat has everybody confused, and Jman came back and explained what it did and now I forget again.
It's not for how you are trying to use it.
I'm thinking it might have had something to do with singular flags, but I just can't remember for sure.

Ok, so for example, In a dungeon; to set flag 16, I would have to use a combo set to trigger(permanent) for secret combos 0-16, and set screen data to enemy->secrets and permanent enemy->secrets. Right?
So if this doesn't work there's something wrong with a bug elsewhere I guess...

EDIT: Wait, that makes no sense....what the hell am I talking about.

In a dungeon type dmap there are NO permanent secrets period.
You can set the room to "treat as cave" to get permanent secrets, but then you lose your doors.
That permanent enemy > secrets was intended for something else all together.

I tried to use it like that too and reported it as a bug, and Jman explained it was meant for something else, then a few months later *b* did the same thing and it was discussed again.
I just don't remember now what it was for, but you can probably find it going back through the bug threads.

Ahh, yes. A searching I will go then. I guess I edited that too late, It's a little confusing though.
Basically the enemies always return and dungeon boss flag weren't working out, which led to me messing with the permanent enemies->secrets thing.
So...one more time;
Enemies on the rooms with the "dungeon boss" flag are never supposed to return once they are dead, correct.

Enemies on the rooms with the "dungeon boss" flag are never supposed to return once they are dead, correct.

That might be dependent on the "must kill all bosses" rule, I'm not sure.

Alright, anyone know how the rooms stay dark when no candle flame...or whatever the rule is called works? The room lights up when you use the flame once, but then if you use it again before the screen goes dark the second flame won't keep the room lit even though it's on the screen while the room goes back to darkness...?

zcamazing,
I sure wish you guys would give these inconsistency reports a break so we could get a stable version.
They can't wait until 2.5?
they've been there since day one.
You or AmazingAmpharos made a post the other day climbing all over the devs for 5 pages of bugs and where were they and why weren't they fixing them.
Well, they have lives, and I think they've been doing a hell of a job, but these inconsistencies are becoming BS, and if it continues then I'm going to start fighting that the devs return to adding features, because what the hell, we aren't going to get a stable release anyway.
How's that sound?

Yes, I do agree. It's a touchy subject though, and I believe i've already self-destructed in a bug post for NES scrolling a while back in regards to this. The thing is, when you go through an NES ROM with the goal of ONLY finding inconsistencies to ZC, then you're going to find them without much trouble. I'm ceartian there is still a bunch of them left. I know of a few, but I will not post them untill new features are being added once again. I WILL do so then, but not while there are problems like subscreen corruption, and gameplay affecting bugs that linger. I feel your pain Freedom. Let's hear some other opinions though.

Indeed, Freedom. Enough of the damned inconsistency reports! 😞
There are bigger issues to keep an eye out for.

The problem is, when they fix an "inconsistency" then they break all the old quests, so then they have to go back and account for that....
Another endless cycle.
We need a stable version so the community can start functioning again.