Let's talk Sonic.

What, you don't think it would be fun and innovative to draw circles on the touchpad to guide Sonic and friends through loops?

A Sonic RPG? Better have Shadow in as playable. Maybe one of the traitorous robos*Gamma/Omega* as well. And Metal Sonic. Can't have a Sonic game without him in it. :kitty:

mrz84 wrote:A Sonic RPG? Better have Shadow in as playable. Maybe one of the traitorous robos*Gamma/Omega* as well. And Metal Sonic. Can't have a Sonic game without him in it. :kitty:

Yeah. I mean, I don't mind Metal Sonic, because he's been around in one incarnation or another since Sonic 2, but a lot of the new characters are too much for me. Give me the good old triad.

Or rather, a game where you just play as Sonic and nobody else. Oh, and can we get rid of the stupid homing attack already?

Cloral wrote:Oh, and can we get rid of the stupid homing attack already?

Yes, please. Or at least make it work, and not be the "fly at the wrong target and fall to your death attack".

I honestly wonder sometimes if the creators actually PLAYTEST their games before they kick it out the door.

Cloral wrote:Or rather, a game where you just play as Sonic and nobody else. Oh, and can we get rid of the stupid homing attack already?

"Homing Attack"? Is that what it's called? I thought it was called "Plunge forward and fall to my death over and over again"

Yes, the Homing Attack. Good idea, poorly implemented. Except Sonic's boss battle in Adventure 1, which was kind of cool.

Wow. This thread got popular.

Sonic has a lot of potential. If only the games were truly as fun to play as the FMV's in Sonic Heroes (opening) made it seem. The series could have so much more if they spent only six months more on their games...

They need to give Knuckles and Tails "Speed" stages like Sonic, and like back in the day again. Tails' stages in SA1 are cool though. Racing against Sonic...

Darth Marsden wrote:I think you've just described one of the many reasons people have problems with the newer Sonic games.

I can't help it that I'm more open minded about the games I play than others. I mean, come on! Not EVERYONE hates the new characters that have appeared in recent Sonic gmaes. Though I haven't played Rush on the DS or any of the games with Silver in them. I can't judge something by what others say. It's liek judging a book by it's cover, ya know? :kitty:

I just said (well, noted that you'd said) that some people have issues with the new characters. Not every new character is problematic - I, surprisingly, quite like Shadow and what he represents (essentially a dark version of Sonic), though some of the other characters are troubled, like Big the Cat or Cream the Rabbit (Suggestive much?).

Problems they need to address before they make any new 3D Sonic games:

- Fix the freakin' physics. If you include a homing attack, make it work. If you include springboards, make sure they lead somewhere. If you include loops, make sure we don't fall off halfway round. If you include a boss, make sure that we can actually destroy it without dying 50 times in the process.
- Make some decent levels. An example of one that isn't bad is Emerald Coast. An example of one that is bad is Mystic Mansion. And don't get me started with all the casino-style levels. The one in Sonic 2 was enough.
- Remember that speed is good. Most Sonic games have had him constantly stopping and starting - the best Sonic games don't do that. They encourage you to just keep on running.
- Get some decent voice artists. Tails and Amy in Sonic Adventure 2 were fingers-down-blackboard painful. This may have improved some in the more recent games, but since I haven't played them, I don't know. Either way, just make sure they don't frighten cats.
- Seriously, stop with the casino levels.
- Quit it with the love interests. While other games have plots, Sonic games never really did, simply because they weren't needed. Having Sonic fall for someone might work in the cartoons (*cough*PrincessSally*cough*) it's just wrong in games. Especially if said love interest is human. A hedgehog and a human? Eww.
- Stop inventing new characters. Deal with the ones you've got at the moment before coming up with any more. Honestly, it's almost like you're struggling to shoehorn them all in at times. Try getting rid of some, maybe? Please?
- No more f**king casino levels.

I definitely agree with the characters. I liked the old model, where new characters were introduced sparingly and carefully. First we just had Sonic, then we got Tails, then we were introduced to Knuckles, but he was very mysterious and unplayable, leaving us some time to think about him before letting us play as him with S&K and see his real abilities.

I stopped following Sonic after S&K, and now I look on the Wikipedia, and the game has turned into this huge character fest. They all look pretty much the same. So many clones of Sonic that are just colored a bit differently. Shadow seems to be a huge idiot. I thought this was supposed to be a game about robots, and not immortal beings. The Wikipedia says he's the 2nd most popular character. Last I knew, Knuckles was. I may be off track on this, but superfically he seems to be a carbon copy of Protoman from Megaman (another annoying-ass character who tries to look somehow cool and mysterious by acting aloof.)

i think i kept getting stuck in the casino level in sonic 2 -.- you had to time your jumps on some bobbing platform to push it down enough so you can get under a wall and continue the level, i can never time my jumps on it right.

edit: yes the sonic heroes intro FMV made the game look good -.- you get it in the sonic gems plus (the intro vid) i got the game and it sux soo hard it just isnt funny.

I gotta say. of the new characters from games I liked, Shadow was my favorite. He was followed closely by Gamma and Omega. The robot from Sonic Battle(can't remember his name right now) was sorta ok. Characters I hate? One comes to mind above ALL others. Big. The fuscking. Cat. Why won't they let him die? He gives cats everywhere a bad name. Cream I don't hate as much as she is one of the few characters with a weapon. The first being Amy. And I don't count Ivo in this until SA2 because he wasn't playable (to my knowledge) until then. I don't generally like any of the Chaotix. Except for Espio. Ninja chameloens rock. :kitty:

And I must agree that Casion levels suck. I really liked the Starlight Zone in the first Sonic game for some reason. Maybe it was the music. Meh. :kitty:

Casino Levels ARE Sonic, man. There's nothing more Sonic-like than casino levels.

Darth Marsden wrote:- Remember that speed is good. Most Sonic games have had him constantly stopping and starting - the best Sonic games don't do that. They encourage you to just keep on running.

I hate to say it, but you're wrong there. Speed is important, but speed alone is boring. I played the older sonics not too long ago, trying to see if I could see what made those games so much better. And the answer was level design. There were always areas where you could build up speed, as well as areas you could get by easier if you moved fast. But there were also areas where slowing down and paying attention would get you through more effectively or even allow you to find an entirely different route that might be stuffed with rings. Knowing when to go fast, and when to slow it down, was the key. And because slowing down in the right place might reveal a better route through the level, the way you played the game had a big impact on the experience you got out of it, which made the game feel a lot more rewarding. It didn't force you to play through the level in some set way.

Here's a good example: level 1-2 (I think) of Sonic 1 had an area with a swinging platform over a small depression. If you were moving quickly you could simply run up the right side of the depression and keep going. However, if you took a bit of time to explore and backtracked to the left down in the depression, you would find a pair of speed shoes. With the speed shoes you could fly through the level, and if you went fast enough with them you could reach a loop with a 1-up on top before the shoes ran out. The speed of the shoes allowed you to travel fast enough up an incline to the left of the loop to reach the top and the 1-up. But had you just been rushing through the level, thinking about nothing but speed, you would've missed the shoes and therefore the extra life. So in this case, knowing when to slow down (in the depression) and when to speed it up (once you get the shoes) makes a huge difference.

PS: has anyone else here played Secret Rings? The controls pissed me off quite a few times, but in the end I really did enjoy it. I actually played past the end of the game trying to earn better medals on the levels, which is something I almost never do in a game anymore.

Cloral: Ah, but I already mentioned better levels. Combine the two, and you get Sonic Advance 2. Which, y'know, was fun. I do see your point however, so I propose we meet halfway and suggest that the option for the player to choose between speed or exploration would make a really bad-ass game.

mrz84: The robot in Sonic Battle was called Emerl. I never played far into that, but I have to say I wasn't that impressed. And yes, Starlight Zone rocked. It had cool music, it was a fairly simple level and the boss was fun. Wee.

Dechipher: There-in lies the problem. They've been done to death. There's nothing new you can add that will make a new casino level different to any of the others. And if it's pretty much just a carbon-copy of what's come before, then what's the point?

franpa: Did you mean the Carnival Night level in Sonic 3? 'cause if so, what you had to do was push the control pad up when the barrel moves down and down when it moves up. It took me so long to figure that out when I was a kid, it nearly drove me mad! No indication, no hints, nothing. Some sloppy level design there, methinks.

The casino stage in Sonic Heroes was a surprise to see, and made the game feel more like a old Sonic game, but the levels themselves were very frustrating. Heroes had a big mix of good and bad levels - the good ones were great, and the bad ones made you want to throw your controller up against the wall. I also wish the special stages weren't so hard. I would like to play against the extra end boss (Metal Sonic), but probably never will since I can't get the Chaos emeralds from the special stages.

As for new characters - seriously Sega, I don't care about them! I care about Sonic! And you can keep Tails cause he's cool, and maybe one love interest. Everyone else, get rid of!

I haven't played Sonic and the Secret Rings on Wii, but I remember Cloral saying in the past that it was a lot of fun. So maybe I'll rent that and check it out.

The special stages in Sonic Heroes aren't so much bad as they are broken. The only way I could finish them was by using an Action Replay, which is never a good way of doing things. If you have to cheat to finish a game, then the guys who made it have utterly failed.

Oh mygod! Casino boss in Sonic 2. Drove me frickin up the wall! I'd keep going up the sided to hit it on the top, and then I'd hit the bumper at the top, fall out of my spin, and land on it, hurting me.


I think Carnival Night(S3), and Casino Night(S2) both showed different ways to pull off the whole "loud, flashy electric" zone feel.

Darth Marsden wrote:franpa: Did you mean the Carnival Night level in Sonic 3? 'cause if so, what you had to do was push the control pad up when the barrel moves down and down when it moves up. It took me so long to figure that out when I was a kid, it nearly drove me mad! No indication, no hints, nothing. Some sloppy level design there, methinks.

OMFG, THANK YOU SO FREAKIN' MUCH ! im sure i looked at FAQ's but i dont recall ever hearing of such a tactic oO.

obviously yes, i was talking about Sonic 3 >.>

Here's the thing with Sonic Heroes: The Stages up through Bingo Highway are good for the most part, and rather enjoyable. I personally like the Power plant themed area, and the Casino themed area. Both were very reminiscent of Sonic 2 which is my second favorite Sonic game. However, Rail Canyon/ Bullet Station was horrible. I was good in theory, but horribly executed. Frog Forest was a little better, but it still sucked seeing as how it was basically a clone of the preceding stage. Lots of grinding and jumping, and missing... Just like Rail Canyon. Hang Castle was also shit. More grinding... More sucking. Egg Fleet was okay though. It reminded me of the Flying Fort from Sonic 2. Final Fortress was okay too. I can't remember anything too terribly annoying about it.

So, up untill the later 2/3 of the game, it's pretty good. They obviously got lazy with all the grinding. Boss battles also suck. They could have been a lot more creative here.

I really wish they'd make another game like Sonic 3 & Knuckles. For the most part the series was great up until Sonic Adventure, and good up until Sonic Heroes, and shit after that (save for the GBA/ DS games).

*cough*Sonic R*cough*

I remember when I was at College, and I was discussing my preference for Sonic games rather then Mario ones with a friend, and I used the phrase 'Well Mario doesn't have a racing game, does he?' It took me 3 seconds to realize my folly, and boy did I have egg on my face!

But yeah, I've always preferred the 2D Sonics to the 2D Marios.

Sonic games are pretty fun for the most part but some of their fans are nuts.

Darth Marsden wrote:The special stages in Sonic Heroes aren't so much bad as they are broken. The only way I could finish them was by using an Action Replay, which is never a good way of doing things. If you have to cheat to finish a game, then the guys who made it have utterly failed.

I have to agree. Having to cheat to finish a level/task in a game does reflect badly on the creators of said game. :kitty:

vegeta1215 wrote:I haven't played Sonic and the Secret Rings on Wii, but I remember Cloral saying in the past that it was a lot of fun. So maybe I'll rent that and check it out.

I must warn however, that the controls take a lot of getting used to. Sonic will frequently do things that seem a bit counter-intuitive and until you get the hang of dealing with these things, the game can be incredibly frustrating. So keep this in mind if you decide to try it, otherwise you'll break the game in frustration before it gets fun.

At the very least the homing attack works better than it does in other games. They are very clear with a large bulls-eye graphic which enemy or object is currently targeted, and Sonic does a pretty good job of hitting what you tell him to. Of course, the fact that most enemies in the game hardly move probably helps.

*glaces through the Wiki artivcle posted by alexmax*

0_0 W...T...F

There are Sonic fans like that?

Dechipher wrote:Casino Levels ARE Sonic, man. There's nothing more Sonic-like than casino levels.

Those levels are probably why I'm addicted to gambling. Ahh, good ol' Sonic.
Not sure if it was just my Sonic the Hedgehog 2 catridge or what, but at the Casino level, Tails would randomly change chipset while flying, but he'd be walking. Probably the coolest thing ever though at my age during that. Actually, it's still cool, it's just I don't scream at it anymore.

Aegix Drakan wrote:*glaces through the Wiki artivcle posted by alexmax*

0_0 W...T...F

There are Sonic fans like that?

From the main Sonic article on ED...

The Fanbase

The Sonic fanbase is, unsurprisingly, filled with furfaggotry,which is split into 2 distinctive parts. Furry smut from the "old" part of the fandom usually consists of Princess Sally from "SatAM" being fucked. Those that are in this part of the fandom that don't jack off to Sonic porn are bitter "retro" fags who refuse to play anything after Sonic 1 because "the original is best" (For instance, all of Sonic CulT).

The second part of the fandom is the 13-15 year-olds who played Sonic Adventure 2 and watched Sonic X and probably don't know what a Sega Genesis is. This section of the fandom delights in creating fan-characters, which are quite arguably the least imaginative fan characters in any fandom ever. Most are recoloured Sonic clones wearing trenchcoats and those stupid huge goth boots that have swords and can go Super at any time, and are evil. This part also produces the worst of the Sonic porn, due to it being drawn by people who don't know what a vagina actually looks like, or have just copied it from a porno mag they found in some bushes. The fandom is also filled with drama, the essential staple for any furry fandom, usually between "new" and "old" Sonic fans bitching about the latest Sonic game.

I would link you, but pretty much every picture on the Sonic page on ED is Not Work Safe/Not Mind Safe/Furry Porn/Rule 34/Oh God Someone Please Kill Me.