Off-tile/ enemy weapons misaligned

You're going to have to describe what you mean by "off-tile," and what exactly is broken; I'm not a hardcore Zelda player 😉

Damn, you beat me to posting by a couple min.

Anyway i've got pics :=D

"Off tile" is when link is in between the squares.

EDIT: shit. I dont got pics.....gimme a couple of minutes.

These better friggin work....

The boomerang misses.

the boomerang hits.

Thy wizzrobe attacks...a miss! no damage hath been scored! ....What??????

EDIT: sorry DD i'll try to be more direct with my statements...however i promise nothing, that way I always keep my promise. 😊

EDIT 2:you changed the bug icon. I'm reasonably certain magic is supposed to HURT link...someone help me out here...

Why does the boomerang hit in the second picture and not the first one? Isn't he "between tiles" in both cases?

What exactly is broken in the current build? Only magic?

the left half of link is not vulnerable to vertical attacks?

Why does the boomerang hit in the second picture and not the first one? Isn't he "between tiles" in both cases?

Exactally!!!thats the million dollar question.
-Boomerangs fire center tile and should have no particular tendency to hit one side or the other, While enemy arrows on the other hand do.

What exactly is broken in the current build? Only magic?

They seem related. Just picture the goriya's in the first two pics as wizzrobes firing magic at link and switch that mentality in the latter pic.

EDIT: wait. Boomerangs are always SUPPOSED to always miss link, magic is not.

Some preliminary investigations lead me to believe that all weapons only check collisions with their upper-left corner... does that seem to match what you're seeing? And is that not how NES Zelda works?

What??? that makes no sense.

Alright thats it. I'm gonna dig Zelda1 out of the closet and hook up the NES.
I'll post my results in about an hour.

Sounds good. If you get a chance, please also check if 2.10.2 is working correctly.

Wow! I haven't played that one in like 10 years or something.Ah, memories.

So this is retarded but in the original NES loz1, magic and other projectiles can go through link. I know, it sounds stupid so i'll repeat it...nes...loz...MAGIC CAN GO THROUGH LINK.

DarkDragon: Some preliminary investigations lead me to believe that all weapons only check collisions with their upper-left corner... does that seem to match what you're seeing? And is that not how NES Zelda works?

PS -Can someone check this out for me in 192 b183, the last awesome build, as I no longer have it.😞 thx-
-N

Gleeok wrote:I'm not sure why this "improved" handling would degenerate back into the womb

The primary objective of ZC was and is to perfectly emulate the original NES game, and so no matter what new features are added ZC must remain backwards-compatible. Thus, despite this behavior being somewhat undesirable, reverting to how it works on the NES was a step in the right direction.

That said, there should probably be a rule to turn on sane collision detection.

DarkDragon wrote:That said, there should probably be a rule to turn on sane collision detection.

I agree with you 100% on that one.

EDIT: Thats a perfect name for the rule! *sane collision detection*

Nope. Every single Zelda classic build from the original 1.00 programed by Phantom Menace to 2.10.2 does not follow the NES rule of "upper-corner damage detection".

Having been playing ZC for the past 4 years and not the NES game i just assumed this had to be a bug, but it seems this was programmed differently by PM. Although I'm not sure why this was originally fixed by PM, It makes sense on the basis that it doesn't make sense. (If that makes sense😊

I got all these programs on my work comp( I forgot to bring them home:mad😊 along with some pics from zc 1.00. I'll have to post them when I get them.

Untill then I'd love to hear peoples thoughts on this, although I dont want to spam up a bug thread... well then, good luck!😊

And you're *sure* the NES also uses funky clipping?

Heh. Now that im all hyped up on monster energy drinks, I suppose I could go grab the stuff and post my findings in an 'all inclusive easy to follow thread'. ;P

-And I wonder why I can never sleep at night!😉

There is a quest rule, in the Link tile editor, which supposedly turns on a large Link hitbox, but that doesn't seem to do anything.

i think jman was working on large link, so maybe ask him about that rule?

Here's an awesome idea, add in the ability to do custom link mask editing. Do you know what I mean about masking?

OK- So here are pics from b337(they're the same in all the 211+ i've got) which I posted in the previous thread.

Gleeok wrote:

The boomerang misses.

the boomerang hits.

Thy wizzrobe attacks...a miss! no damage hath been scored! ....What??????

--Notice anything odd? Well you should. This is the way the NES programming determines damage. Don't believe me? Open up that rom and see for yourself. I know, I didn't believe it either.

Now here are screenshots from the original ZC 1.00 some 8 years back, which by the way are identical to the 1.90, 1.92, and 2.10 builds.

*I tried to mimic the earlier pics the best i could*

This is what we are used to playing with ZC, and how it was programmed when it first began.

I guess the main concern would be how it would affect the playability of the massive amounts of custom quests made over the years. A rule that says "Use NES style damage detection" would make more sense.(This being turned off by default)

I tried to write this not being pro, or anti-anything, but you can easily tell I think this sucks.
-N

I understand. I've posted about this where I hopefully will get DN's attention; he has a far better understanding of how ZC was implemented then and now and will hopefully be able to shed some light on what's going on.

franpa wrote:the left half of link is not vulnerable to vertical attacks?

franpa, you've said this better in one sentence than I could in this whole thread.

I still haven't heard anything new about this, and I see it's in the exterminated bugs thread😞, so this is my last ditch effort to explain this.*sigh*
I made this short Demo that clearly identifies exactaly what i mean by Off-tile/ enemy weapons misaligned. It only takes a little over 5 minutes to play and you can see what I cannot clearly convey with crappy pictures.

So DD, or DN, or anyone else still unsure what i'm talking about, please play this. thank you in advance- http://download145.mediafire.com/otn0gyc3qnpg/7igvtl13i9m/BackwardsDemo.qst

PS- this works best on 337. 254 is also playable, but not as good.
This is a 192 qst, so if you play it a second time in 1.92 or 2.10 you will see it is impossible.
thx -N

I don't even know why I moved it there... moving back to Open Bugs.

I've made a post calling DN's attention to this problem... I don't know how collisions were done before, or why they were changed, and don't want to meddle with that which I do not understand.

hehe..silly me.:googly: I didn't hear anything about it and thought it just got buried or something:laughing:
It's just that no one really, legitamately, seemed to notice this. :whap: I didn't want 2.5 to be released and then that's when everybody starts to notice somethings wrong when it's too late. (If you remember 2.10)😉

well thx-😊

EDIT: I forgot some smilies... ;P😉:P

i believe this was discussed ages ago, i had and still do have a feeling of deja vu when reading this thread.

Where??? I tried searching for it and couldn't find ANYTHING. Plus, no one else has mentioned anything about it. I'd think DarkDragon would remember.
Was it within the last year?

Your quest link is broken.
Could you please fix it? I played around with ZC 1.92 and took the following screenshots: are you sure the collision is behaving differently?

It's difficult to tell with those pics. believe it or not that actually looks somewhat normal with that tileset. By playing it however I could instantly tell.

OK i've fixed the link, here it is - http://download86.mediafire.com/mcbtoc0kldcg/2bys5zzlhmx/BackwardsDemo.qst

Here's the scoop: play this in something like 337, (that worked perfectly for me) *THEN AFTERWARDS PLAY IN 192 b183*( or 2.10 ) this is important.
-After this is done, there will be no doubt as to the nature of what this "bug" details.

PS - Thanks Darkdragon, I appreciate it. 😉

One last thing: the current behavior is correct for 1st and 2nd.qst, and I should add a quest rule preserving current behavior for them, correct?

Yeah, It'd defininately be neat to have a first and second quest in ZC that mimiced the original NES behavior, As well as the ability for custom quests after 2.5 to have an option of changing this as well. This is actually a really cool feature. So to answer your question, yes you should.

-That being said, i'm glad this ones going down. ;P