I agree with Rainman.
It is illegal to shoot people in the United States. People who shoot people are law breakers. If you make guns illegal, only people who obey laws will give up their guns. That disarms law obiding citizens, and does nothing to lawbreakers.
Even if guns didn't exist, a person who is determined to kill innocent people will find a way to do so.
I recall an article I read a couple of years ago that seemed to indicate that in many countries where guns are outlawed, the knife becomes the preferred weapon of the murderer. Granted, knives don't allow for such an easy killing spree, but there's always the old standby argument "would a criminal who is willing to kill over two dozen people instead decide to stay at home when faced with the moral dilemma of acquiring a weapon that is illegal?"
Or they could just make a bomb with chemicals you can get at Ace Hardware.
Europeans love to point out how many gun crimes there are in the united states, but they never mention that their murder rate does not differe appreciable from ours, and they also fail to mention that according to an article on the BBC website in 2003, violent crime is rising in the UK and falling in the US.
The shooter was a 4channer!
Who's 4channer?
MottZilla wrote:Who's 4channer?
The article quote:
Students at the university's online newspaper, planetblacksburg.com, today discovered a message on a website that seemed to announce the massacre.Posted early yesterday morning on 4chan, a website that allows anonymous postings, the message warned: "hey /b/ I'm going to kill people at vtech today in the name of anonymous."
Oh god it was in /b/ it has to be true, that is the absolute pinnacle of serious business on the internet!
Guys I think he played video games too! Link for big image
See, guys like that give gamers a bad name. Hopefully the mainstream media doesn't get ahold of that image and use it for some more "Video games are Satan spawn" propoganda.
News around the net is that is was a random guy who posted that and edited his time stamp to a different time. In either way it just shows us more and more that 4Chan is a twisted place.
Amaster42 wrote:Hopefully the mainstream media doesn't get ahold of that image and use it for some more "Video games are Satan spawn" propoganda.
Well...if the gamefaqs social boards are to be believed (unlikely), then JT is blaming this whole thing on WoW. >_> Even though the source is not very reputable, I can't help but think that it's got a grain of truth...
And for the record, the games aren't the problem. If there were no video games, he'd have just imitated rambo or the texas chainsaw massacre. If peole would take the time to raise their kids PROPERLY, then we would fix 90% of these problems BEFORE THEY HAPPEN.
Right. No sense blaming video games. The real culprit is the girl who rejected his advances, as investigators believe may be a prime motive for his actions. When are girls going to learn to stop saying "No" all the time?
Oh.
I haven't been here since apparently November 13th and the first thing I thought when I heard Virginia Tech was "hey wasn't there a guy from AGN that goes/went there?". I swear, no matter how hard I try to leave, something keeps pulling me back D:
Also, might 4chan have as many screw-ups as 2ch? I hope not, although you have to have a deteriorated mind to be able to regular that place.
I heard about this on the news this morning. Horrible really. :shakeno:
Glad all AGNers in the area are accounted for. :kitty:
me2 wrote:I swear, no matter how hard I try to leave, something keeps pulling me back D:
That would be your soul that you put into SB's jar when you joined.
deathbyhokie wrote:That would be your soul that you put into SB's jar when you joined.
>_> I don't belive my soul is in the jar. I always look carefully in any agreements I see on the net, and soul stealing was not in the terms of agreement as far as I could see...So...I doubt my soul is in the jar.
My life, and my mind though... :P That's another story.
The shooting made the news even way out here in the Pacific. Apparently, the guy was a South Korean whose family had gone to the US in order to make more money. He also made a videotape.
...Wait, the guy used a pistol? The stuff I'd heard made it sound like he'd used a submachinegun or something like that.
Sorry, DBH, but your name didn't appear anywhere in my mind when I first heard of the incident. I guess I'm just not as deeply attached to this forum as the other members here...
Aegix Drakan wrote:...Another one? Why the fuck do these idiots go around shooting up schools? It's just sickening....
My heart goes out to anyone injured (or who knows someone injured) in the attack.
franpa wrote:1) he was a quiet kid
2) bullies generally pick on quiet and/or weird people
3) person gets pushed over the edge gets gun kills all in sight 😊 simple really.
No, there is always a mental illness component involved, which the killer in this case obviously had. Whats so messed up is that all the warning signs were there and people even complained to authorities and police about him, and he'd even been institutionalized for a brief period.
In the end, he was just sane enough to be pushed back into society. Problem with our mental healthcare system right now from what I understand is that its an area that is more and more becoming overwhelmed and I imagine this makes it attractive to release those people who seem to be coming down off of their episodes and calming down, so that the system can focus on the individuals who can't without close supervision be made safe to themselves and other people.
He was sick and probably needed long term therapy, but without somebody actively seeing that he got help, there wasn't anything that could be done until he commited a crime. Unfortunately, that crime had to involve the deaths of 32 people and more wounded.
Its all just fucked up. Nothing could've prevented it short of the conditions around the situation being more ideal.
Too true, Ted. In the past it wasn't unheard of to spend long periods of time in loony bins, just chillin', but now the system is too overworked to hold that many people and also DIY medication culture is where it's at. The problem is trusting seriously insane people to take their medication, monitor their own behavior, etc. However, even with all this evidence I don't think anyone had enough information to detain him. I know plenty of people who have done similar "weird" things or had a history of crazy and never would come close to something like this. 99% of "disturbed" people are harmless, and it would be wrong to detain them. Also, if he was seriously planning it and this crazy, even if they had delayed classes or detained him, he would have done it as soon as possible anyway 😞
Although on that note, one thing that really grinds my gears is repeat offenders, especially the sex kind. Nearly everytime I've read a story about rape/killing, they'll mention the guy had a previous history of sex abuse but was released. Wtf? This happens so often, I have no idea why they let these people out. If it's too much money to keep them, just kill them off imo. From the way the Vtech guy's roommates/teachers were talking, it looks like they were all looking for an excuse to point out he was really crazy, some small incident, but he went from 0 to killing spree in 5 seconds. So you can't even call repeat offender on this. Sad.
Agreed with lilith. It makes no sense for them to release sex offenders, especially repeat offenders.
It's just plain stupid. I mean, if the guy is a sex predator, you DO NOT let them go back out. Seriously.
First offence should get 30 years hardcore jail at least, and second offence should get you another 30 years, plus you get neutered. With no anesthetic.
Maybe that would make them think twice.
You know, with this recent surge of school shootings, it makes me think. What are the governments (US and Canadian) doing about it?
From what I can see, not much.
Aegix Drakan wrote:You know, with this recent surge of school shootings, it makes me think. What are the governments (US and Canadian) doing about it?From what I can see, not much.
Just curious, what do you WANT them to do about it? The schools can't even do anything about it, since no one knows when it's going to happen, or who's going to do it...
Aegix Drakan wrote:You know, with this recent surge of school shootings, it makes me think. What are the governments (US and Canadian) doing about it?From what I can see, not much.
This is an excellent point. We should all write to our congresspeople and suggest solutions to preventing this. Maybe we can suggest to the police that someone may possibly be a school shooter, so the police can detain them and question them. And if they show any signs of aggression, including being indignant at the idea of being arrested when no crime has been committed, it'll be obvious proof that they have issues, and should be locked away for their own good.
Maybe we should also make every high school kid write an essay, and anyone whose essay shows anger, violence, use of a gun, or any other potential red flags we'll lock away forever. Sure, it's a bit of a loss of freedom, but it's for the good of everyone, right?
We should also finally do something about those damn witches up in Salem too.
The kid's writings did suggest something particularly anti-social which is why I think it was red-flagged by teachers (as supposed to noir-violence or something). People did pick up on it, remarking that the only emotion he ever expressed was anger towards, which is a trait of anti-social disorder. A lot of the kid's fellow students and teachers were watching him closely to see if he would act out, but he didn't until this. If he was kicked out of school, he would have come back and done it or been able to complain/sue that he was kicked out for no real reason. There was nothing anyone could have done about this. That's why it's a tragedy. The only thing that could have really been done would be to impose more restrictions on who can buy guns, like psychological ones. However if you've had depression and wanted to buy a gun for protection and weren't allowed to, that would still be unfair. So idk.
Yeah I'm concerned that anyone that the popular kids think is "weird" or "anti-social" will get put on mood altering drugs and sent to counceling.
By most definitions, I am the type of person people might think would go crazy and kill everyone. I stay home all day working at my desk, I don't hang out with people, I don't go places, and I don't participate in anything except my own projects. I also have a dark sense of humor and basically think everyone is stupid and annoying. I don't want to be institutionalized for not being a brainless idiot with a shit eating grin who goes to frat parties, sports events, etc.
Aegix Drakan wrote:It's just plain stupid. I mean, if the guy is a sex predator, you DO NOT let them go back out. Seriously.First offence should get 30 years hardcore jail at least, and second offence should get you another 30 years, plus you get neutered. With no anesthetic.
Maybe that would make them think twice.
If I ever get to found a country, illegal immigrants will have both knees shot out being thrown back where they came from, graffiti gets you locked up for a year after you've cleaned it up, and murderers get their entire families thrown out of the country while they get a bullet to the brain. Harsh, but you watch the crime figures stay in single digits. Well, until the people throw me out of office, anyway.
And for the record, it's 'offense'. Easy to get wrong.
Beldaran: I think you've described a fair number of people who post here. I'm also fairly certain we outnumber the 'popular' kids... Viva la revolution! 😉
Seriously... A lot of the time it's difficult to spot who is going to do something like this. As mentioned, you can watch for violent outbursts or tell-tale actions, but it's nigh-on impossible to know if someone's gonna go on a killing spree until they do it. Whatever you do, things are difficult to change without upsetting one group of people or another. In the end, sad as it may seem, the world will forget this soon enough and nothing will change.
Has anyone read the book "Brave New World"? That's pretty much the ONLY way society can be safe. It's impossible to have both Safety AND Freedom to the point where everyone is happy. If there is freedom, there will always be crime/murders etc. If there is safety then it comes at the price of freedom.
I want to say something about the suggestions and comments made in this topic concerning jail time and institutionalization.
First of all, it grieves me when a person with no significant history with the law can easily and casually say that people should go to jail for 30 years or some such, and then how others can call it lenient. The reason for this is that these people have likely never been to jail, and have no idea what it is like.
I have had personal experience with being locked up in a mental health institute. I was held for about 2 months several years ago, and those were the worst 2 months of my life. I spent much of my time at a State Mental Health facility. This is exactly the kind of place you would expect to go to, and I was amongst other people who it was very unlikely they'd ever live outside the facility.
For two months, I stepped into a pocket of hell on Earth. I've read that this place is in many ways comparable to a prison. It terrifies me to think of spending any more time there.
People are suggesting throwing people into jail for upwards of 30 years for an offence, and I know they wouldn't be saying that if they'd experienced what I have.
The thing that is truly grieving to me, is that it is these everyday law-abiding citizens who never have to experience such, which go on to become our lawmakers and judges, perpetuating such sentences not just as casual forum chatter, but as actual real life punishments. They'll go to work as a judge, sentence someone to 50 years "hardcore prison", then as that person is being forced off to hell, they go home and make love to their wife and later grumble about getting up for work the next morning to sentence someone else.
Things like this make me shudder and detest sharing the planet with other humans.
It's even more terrifying when you think about the recent projects to show how many innocent people are in prison. They've cleared like over a hundred people off of death row because of DNA evidence. Or how about the Duke LaCrosse scandal? One black girl makes an outrageous claim and for a year a group of white defendants are presumed guilty and have to fight for their lives constantly.
It's extremely difficult to prove your innocence in this country, and that's terrifying because you're not supposed to have to prove you're innocent. You're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.
...wow...
I wish to retract my previous statement.
You are right, I have no experience with this kind of thing, and thus my opinon is faulty from the start. So, yeah, never mind my previous statement.
It IS true that the western way of applying justice is screwed up. Most of the time, it is the innocent/good person that gets screwed. Which is why I am vehemently opposed to the death sentence. In the end, it's not about whether or not you are guilty, it's about how much you can afford to pay a lawyer.
And while I don't detest sharing the planet with other humans, but I DO detest sharing it with idiots and the corrupt. With accounts for about 95% of the earth's population.
Ya know, between all the aisians, hispanics, blacks, homosexuals, women and other groups, the white male is now almost a minority. Not saying that's a bad thing, just an interesting thought, when you consider all the special treatment we give other minorities.
As for the VTech thing, well, the guy didn't just write some violent stuff, I mean from the excerpts, they were twisted. I know if I read them, I wouldn't just assume he had some problems, no I'd tell someone in authority and bug them until they did somthing about it
