Wii Virtual Console

mattwdr wrote:So because its hard to do, my needs as a consumer are therefore not valid?

mattwdr wrote:It seems like you are trying to nitpick my posts and stance on this because I am not as knowledgable as you about coding etc. Now that we all understand that you understand the difficulty involved I think we can all sleep better at night.

mattwdr wrote:I want online gaming from VC games that should provide it. That's all.

mattwdr wrote: Is is not an unrealistic expectation. Again, the consumers are willing and are going to pay for these games. We deserve online play. Don't defend companies who for a little work (a little compared to the million plus spent on the latest next-gen game) can transform an old title into one that will make them alot of money.

Kairyu wrote:I'm not so sure about the 'lot of money' part. Online games require maintainence and servers. Those are things you keep paying for. On XBL, there's a yearly fee to cover those costs. On the Wii... I'm not sure what they plan to do. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure how they cover the NDS' online service. Do they include it with the cost of the system, with the games, with a little of everything... ?

Virtual Console really covers it - it's basically just emulating roms. So it doesn't take a lot of money to set that up.

FYI, NDS games and Wii games will work similar to battle.net in that it's a match making service. But the actual game is run between players, there's no dedicated server running the game like in World of WarCraft. So it doesn't cost much and could be supported via some in-service ad space.

And as Warlock pointed out, the work to release VC games isn't that much. Infact if you have a truely accurate emulator you only need like 1 guy to just sorta play through the thing for you. So releasing them is very cheap, esspecially since unlike collections lately, you don't have the marketing and packaging/mastering expenses that take away from profits. The VC could be a real cash machine for Nintendo if they can get it going. One thing that is a real shame is that games like Battletoads and Snake Rattle n' Roll (RARE games) won't appear on VC. ='(

MottZilla wrote:FYI, NDS games and Wii games will work similar to battle.net in that it's a match making service. But the actual game is run between players, there's no dedicated server running the game like in World of WarCraft. So it doesn't cost much and could be supported via some in-service ad space.

And as Warlock pointed out, the work to release VC games isn't that much. Infact if you have a truely accurate emulator you only need like 1 guy to just sorta play through the thing for you. So releasing them is very cheap, esspecially since unlike collections lately, you don't have the marketing and packaging/mastering expenses that take away from profits. The VC could be a real cash machine for Nintendo if they can get it going. One thing that is a real shame is that games like Battletoads and Snake Rattle n' Roll (RARE games) won't appear on VC. ='(

God I hated Battletoads :P

The only Rare game I'd really want is Goldeneye, and honestly there is more an issue with MGM than Rare on that.

Battletoads is a fun game, but I don't think I ever got past the part where you ride hover crafts through that pink area where you have to dodge the walls that come at you. 😞

vegeta1215 wrote:Battletoads is a fun game, but I don't think I ever got past the part where you ride hover crafts through that pink area where you have to dodge the walls that come at you. 😞

Yeah, that's what I didn't like about it. It wasn't "challenging hard", it was "stupid hard". It was more about being lucky than skillful most of the time.

To be honest, other than the aforementioned Goldeneye, and the first Perfect Dark (though I havn't played the 360 version), Rare has never really released a game I liked. I hated all the Banjo games with a passion. DKC was fun for about 30 mins and then got old really, really fast. Star Fox Adventures was an absolute joke of a terrible game. I never played Conker, but I honestly don't care that I havn't either.. I dunno, other than their FPSers they didn't really do much impressive. They just got so much praise during the N64 days because of Goldeneye and the fact that they were like the only 3rd party actually making decent exclusive stuff for that console.

Hahahaha. Wow man. Now I know you suck at video games Warlock. I can run through Battletoads beginning to end without having to continue and often with fewer than 5 deaths up until the pillar/elevator level before the dark queen.

Seriously man, it is a challenging game requiring skill just like Super Battletoads (SNES) and luck is not required, just a bag full of skill.

RARE games I enjoyed include: Donkey Kong Country series, Killer Instinct, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Snake Rattle 'n Roll, Battletoads, and possibly more I can't recall right now.

Warlock, seriously man, Battletoads is not stupid. It is a game for the hardcore and the pros.

I didn't mind some of their games, but most of their games had the same concept that they took way too far. Of coures, I"m referring to the N64 days. Lets make a platform collecting game in space, lets make a platform collecting game with monkeys, lets make a platform collecting game with bears and birds. Most Rare games produced after Banjo-Kazooie revolved around collecting all sorts of items. I enjoyed that game because it has some decent platforming levels, with just enough collectables to make you play through the levels again. Essentially, it was no different than Super Mario 64. I guess they thought the success of that was due to the sheer amount of collectability. But after that, I gagged at the thought of playing BK2, JFG, DK64, or SFA and collecting all that crap.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20020927h.gif

The only thing I don't like, or I guess I'm afraid of when it comes to VC is that popularity may drive the game list. If there is some obscure game for the SNES that I want to play just because I never played it (and yes, I do have one in mind); who's to say I will get that chance, if its not popular enough. Nintendo says we can "play our favorite NES, SNES, and N64 titles" on VC, but who's to tell me what my favorite games are. Certainly not Nintendo, but there will be games I like, that may never see the light of day on the VC, just because of popularity or lack of a huge company name slapped across the front.

I agree with you about the N64 and collecting shit. I didn't careabout Banjo or DK64. However I did like JFG! It was a neat shooter.

About driving the list, remember with this system they have basically unlimited shelf space, and at 10 games a week or whatever, there's plenty of room for the less popular games.

MottZilla wrote:Hahahaha. Wow man. Now I know you suck at video games Warlock. I can run through Battletoads beginning to end without having to continue and often with fewer than 5 deaths up until the pillar/elevator level before the dark queen.

Seriously man, it is a challenging game requiring skill just like Super Battletoads (SNES) and luck is not required, just a bag full of skill.

RARE games I enjoyed include: Donkey Kong Country series, Killer Instinct, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Snake Rattle 'n Roll, Battletoads, and possibly more I can't recall right now.

Warlock, seriously man, Battletoads is not stupid. It is a game for the hardcore and the pros.

Keep in mind this is like 17 years ago. And I stand by my dislike for the game. Besides, Battletoads were a complete ripoff of Ninja Turtles :P

Killer Instinct was ok, but just an average fighter. There are better out there.

And yes, the emphasis on collecting crap is exactly why I hated all those N64 games (and SFA)

Battletoads and Ninja Turtles were extremely different. Battletoads had a beat-em-up element but a very strong platforming and high speed element. Turtles was all slow paced beat-em-up. The original TMNT had a basic platforming element that wasn't that great. Battles > TMNT.

Killer Instinct had cutting edge graphics and sound and was a solid fighter. It was much more than an "average" fighter. The fact that you can say Killer Instinct and anyone gaming at the time knows what it is shows that it was much more than average. Also if you are basing your opinion off the SNES version again, that's your fault. The SNES game was a solid port but lacked the amazing graphics and sound of the original.

MottZilla wrote:Battletoads and Ninja Turtles were extremely different. Battletoads had a beat-em-up element but a very strong platforming and high speed element. Turtles was all slow paced beat-em-up. The original TMNT had a basic platforming element that wasn't that great. Battles > TMNT.

The franchise, not the games.

Killer Instinct had cutting edge graphics and sound and was a solid fighter. It was much more than an "average" fighter. The fact that you can say Killer Instinct and anyone gaming at the time knows what it is shows that it was much more than average. Also if you are basing your opinion off the SNES version again, that's your fault. The SNES game was a solid port but lacked the amazing graphics and sound of the original.

Actually I was thinking of the arcade version. I don't know, I just never saw anything special about it. It had 3d (ish, they were pre-rendered weren't they?) graphics which were sort of nifty, but not a whole lot otherwise.

MottZilla wrote:Again the best way to do this is a single emulator with settings for each game to run optimally, or actually different emulator builds specific to the game which would work too.

On that note, couldn't nintendo also swell the game sizes to gigantic proportions, so you'd be forced to buy more stupid memory card things? *shrug*

punkonjunk1024 wrote:Wouldn't making a specific emulator build specific to every single game, which is implying to me, basically an emulator for a game, not a system... Beef up the shit out of the download size? Like... since it's not a pc emulator, but instead an emulator for a game system (so it has to work with the system's capabilities and differences)... I could see that being pretty large. Granted, I don't know that much about what I'm talking about.

On that note, couldn't nintendo also swell the game sizes to gigantic proportions, so you'd be forced to buy more stupid memory card things? *shrug*

I doubt it. It would probably be a tiny config file that sets up different settings in the emulator to run the game most effectively (or possibly even just a series of firmware updates to the emulator for different games).

Anyways, Xbox 360 already does this with playing normal Xbox games. And really the biggest N64 game isn't even that big.

First, Battletoads isn't a franchise, you can't compare it against TMNT as one.

Next, KI did feature prerendered (which actually means BETTER) backgrounds and also FMVs. These were all of amazing quality really, and you couldn't complain about prerendering either. It's easy to go, ew prerenders suck. That's because you think Resident Evil static backgrounds. In KI their prerendered backgrounds were more like lucid FMVs. Do you own the arcade game? I doubt it man. So chances are you didn't play the arcade version which again is 3464564754x better than the SNES.

POJ no, like Warlock said fine tuning/configuring per game or patches wouldn't beef up file size.

MottZilla wrote:First, Battletoads isn't a franchise, you can't compare it against TMNT as one.

Next, KI did feature prerendered (which actually means BETTER) backgrounds and also FMVs. These were all of amazing quality really, and you couldn't complain about prerendering either. It's easy to go, ew prerenders suck. That's because you think Resident Evil static backgrounds. In KI their prerendered backgrounds were more like lucid FMVs. Do you own the arcade game? I doubt it man. So chances are you didn't play the arcade version which again is 3464564754x better than the SNES.

POJ no, like Warlock said fine tuning/configuring per game or patches wouldn't beef up file size.

Two games is a franchise. But if you want to get technically with the wording... "The concept of Battletoads as mutant toads is a ripoff of TMNT"

And yes, I've played the arcade version. I don't care about the graphics - I didn't find anything particularly "hooking" about the game.

you guys are arguing too much. People can have different preferences, tards. :P
KI was one of my favorite fighters ever, the only I liked until soul caliber and SSB.

I think mortal kombat is retarded. But thats just preference. *shrug*

Can any of you tell me if the VC will implement save states? I have a gut feeling that it won't, and that right there is enough to make me stick with emulators.

I agree with Warlock that the name 'Battletoads' sounds like a rip-off of 'Ninja Turtles'. However, it was a really fun game, though perhaps a bit too hard. I was never able to get past the pipe level, which I think was level 9.

The emualtion of Ocarina of Time on the original release with Master Quest seemed fine, except for the slight music skipping between areas, and the pause on the main menu. It almost looks like it switches resolutions. The game had less slowdown than the N64 version too.

I never got through Majora's Mask on Gamecube though. The game froze on me when leaving a section of the mountain area. The frame rate suffered in croweded areas too like Clocktown. Must have been something related to the extra ram of the expansion pack not being emulated right.

Battletoads is kinda taken from TMNT, its got a team of frogs instead of turtles beating up bad guys. I think I liked the original Battletoads, but it was frustratingly hard. I enjoyed Battletoads & Double Dragon (NES) a little more because it was easier until a certain part in the game.

Either last year or the year before at a game convention, there were 2 players playing Battletoads on large TV trying to get past that first lava speed stage with a crowd watching. If one player messed up they'd both have to restart. 😊

Glenn the Great wrote:Can any of you tell me if the VC will implement save states? I have a gut feeling that it won't, and that right there is enough to make me stick with emulators.

I highly doubt it. Save states and Action Replay cheats are one of the biproducts of computer emulators that just won't make their way onto the VC. As much as I would love them though... 😞

You bring up a good point. Its something I hadn't thought of and it definitely makes playing old games on an emulator that much more enjoyable for me.

Save states would be interesting but I guess when I pictured the VC I pictured the more pure form of the games. I didn't expect to have save states. Even though emulators may be better for that, it will still be much easier (and legal) to download titles off the VC and play them the way they were intended.

Warlock wrote:Two games is a franchise. But if you want to get technically with the wording... "The concept of Battletoads as mutant toads is a ripoff of TMNT"

Battletoads is not like TMNT because they are NOT mutant toads. They weren't regular toads exposed to some substance or anything. Battletoads is based in some strange world with lots of strange characters, not reality at all. It's more comical than TMNT as well. Battletoads is not a ripoff. I mean it seems to me if you wanna argue the point that way, TMNT is totally a rip off of Frogger. Frogger had toads and turtles and they were the color green!

Both TMNT and Battletoads are solid game series. I don't see why you hate the Battletoads so much. I still think it's just because you didn't like its difficulty.

About KI, last I remember you weren't really big on fighting games to begin with anyway.

MottZilla wrote:Battletoads is not like TMNT because they are NOT mutant toads. They weren't regular toads exposed to some substance or anything. Battletoads is based in some strange world with lots of strange characters, not reality at all. It's more comical than TMNT as well. Battletoads is not a ripoff. I mean it seems to me if you wanna argue the point that way, TMNT is totally a rip off of Frogger. Frogger had toads and turtles and they were the color green!

Both TMNT and Battletoads are solid game series. I don't see why you hate the Battletoads so much. I still think it's just because you didn't like its difficulty.

About KI, last I remember you weren't really big on fighting games to begin with anyway.

TMNT is about walking, talking turtles who fight people.
Battletoads is about walking, talking toads who fight people.

Add the fact they are both amphibians, and that Battletoads was created exactly around the time TMNT was at its most popular. Just because the backstory of the characters are different does not mean they weren't clearly a ripoff made to capitalize on TMNT's success.

Also, that's not really the story anyways (not that I trust the accuracy of Nintendo Power comics):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battletoads

And in the section about the animated series (which I actually never heard about until now):

It is likely that the show was an attempt to capitalize on the popularity of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Incidentally, DiC would try this again with Street Sharks the next year.

Glenn the Great wrote:Can any of you tell me if the VC will implement save states? I have a gut feeling that it won't, and that right there is enough to make me stick with emulators.

Why would you want save states that ruins the game, that makes it WAY to easy.
Keep saving states and chug through a level each time you get to hard part save state, then save immediately afterwards, that ruins alot of skill involved in playing the game......

Well heres a good Example, Warlock would be able to beat Battletoads if we had savestates undoubtedly. So could I for that matter (I also always got stuck at those damned bikes) Thats great and all but that ruins the game. Wheres the fun if everything is beatable on almost every try.

MANDRAG GANON wrote:Why would you want save states that ruins the game, that makes it WAY to easy.
Keep saving states and chug through a level each time you get to hard part save state, then save immediately afterwards, that ruins alot of skill involved in playing the game......

Well heres a good Example, Warlock would be able to beat Battletoads if we had savestates undoubtedly. So could I for that matter (I also always got stuck at those damned bikes) Thats great and all but that ruins the game. Wheres the fun if everything is beatable on almost every try.

I think I could beat it.. *now*.. back then though the difficulty was so uneven. That wiki page describes it well - it jacks up a crazy amount right at lvl 3. I also remember really hating the snake level.

They announced a few more games that will be coming to the VC before the year is out:

http://wii.ign.com/articles/744/744650p1.html

I am guessing you can use the wiimote for Wild Gunman and Duck Hunt?

What we really need though is Kirby's Dream Course...

Kirby's Dream Course would be awesome.

MANDRAG GANON wrote:Why would you want save states that ruins the game, that makes it WAY to easy.

I don't just use save states to make the game easier. I also use them to save right before my favorite moments in a game if there is not a save point nearby. Using several save states, I can instantly jump to parts that I want to replay without wading through other stuff.

Breaker wrote:Kirby's Dream Course would be awesome.

Yeah its one of my favorite lesser known games. I wish they would make another one. The concept is just amazing.