No federal funding says Bush, even though the House, the Senate, and the majority of Americans want it.
Bush Vetos Stem Cell Research Bill
What exactly does Stem Cell research do? Is that killing unborn babies and taking their cells or something like that? If so, that's probably why Bush doesn't like it...
This is what I understand:
a stem cell is a cell a fetus (or a baby in first trimester or something like that) has. A stem cell not chosen which type of cell its going to be. Ie skin cell, brain cell, etc etc.
Many disabilities have to do with missing cells and what not. What they are trying to do is use stem cells to replace the missing cells in the given disability. Once a stem cell in put in a enviorment with other cells it adapts and become the kind of cell needed.
The problem is you have to kill these "babys" to get the stem cells, and the question is if these "babys" are legitimate humans and if its against human morality or not.
IIRC, stem cells are taken very early on during the embryo stage when they baby is just a ball of cells. Since they are the cells which eventually turn into various specialized ones, reseach is being put into how they can be used to replace/regenerate cells in adults. Conditions with nerve damage (paralysis, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's) are prime target for this research.
Nah Rainman, its BEFORE it's a baby. Long before. The problem is retards like Bush pushing their moral retardation on us holding back science. There is nothing morally wrong about getting stem cells from embryos. Anyone that thinks it's a baby or a human life is some kind of ubber pussy. Also it's really funny to give a damn about some tiny little embryo while at the same time doing so many other clearly wrong things. They are not saints or moral people.
Really, someone should shoot him over this, and leave him paralyzed. See what tune he's singing then.
Yeah, fetus. Whatever. :P
Ya well there's a difference man. Not to mention the whole retarded thing that people think babies are somehow more important than living people. I mean really, lets say you have one of the smartest most valuable members of society dieing from some disease, you can't let some embryo go so that person could be saved and go on to benifit society. You'd rather the thing just sit in a freezer or maybe become someone's baby. Cause you know how hard it is to make a baby... I mean it's so damn difficult to end up with a baby...
Reminds me of some hospital around here where the baby is more important than the mother in their minds. Some religious whackjobs. They'd rather save the baby than the mother, the one that actually would be missed from society. A baby is nothing. They are a dime a dozen. Until it has actually be alive to some extent it's really not anything more than a meat bag. I mean come on, you can say oh my baby is so special and great. Uh, no... it isn't.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I hate people that hold back technology/science.
Ohh, I guess I must be one of those then, Mott...^^ As a handicapped person, I don't think we are meant to mess with God's plan and change how we are meant to be born. If we are, I don't think killing babies is the way to do it. Killing normal babies to fix handicapped people just doesn't sound right to me at all. (I can't help it, I love babies and I think children and babies are very special to God, and it may be too simplistic a view for some, but I believe pregnant = baby, no ifs, ands, or buts, and I say that as a woman) ^_^
The only way I think would be okay to abort would be if the mother was going to die.
The House didn't want it bad enough. They couldn't pass an override vote.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_go_pr_wh/stem_cells_58
Monica wrote:Ohh, I guess I must be one of those then, Mott...^^ As a handicapped person, I don't think we are meant to mess with God's plan and change how we are meant to be born. If we are, I don't think killing babies is the way to do it. Killing normal babies to fix handicapped people just doesn't sound right to me at all. (I can't help it, I love babies and I think children and babies are very special to God, and it may be too simplistic a view for some, but I believe pregnant = baby, no ifs, ands, or buts, and I say that as a woman) ^_^
It's not just the handicapped who are helped by stem-cell research. New technologies, many of which could wipe out problems suffered by otherwise very healthy individuals, could result from stem-cell research.
Like for instance, organ transplants would not only be plentiful(not relying on limit quantities received from donors), but combined with theraputic cloning, these lab grown organs would be of the same DNA as the person receiving the transplant. This means people receiving the new organ do not have to worry about rejection, or having to live their lives with compromised immune systems(medication weakening the immune response of foreign tissue is required today for transplanted organs not to fail in new bodies).
Of course, this flies in the face with judeo-christian thinking, which regards people beyond a few years of age to be infallibly wicked and therefore worth less than unborn children who have yet to come into this horrid world and be corrupted by society, which is at this point beyond saving, so we all must conform to narrow minded ideas of living so that upon death, we'll be allowed to enter this wonderful place we've been told is waiting so long as we cling to ideas which at times are both bizarre and illogical.
I'd also like to venture the personal theory of mine that states abortion is probably the most humane form of unnatural death upon a human being, because it occurs at an early point in the development stage, before consciousness sets in, and probably well before any significant pain can be felt. Also, an unborn fetus doesn't see it coming. Whereas I and my family can hope, with current technology, to see me die in a painful, but hopefully not too slow, death.
We will sacrifice those for whom pain and living isn't something that can be appreciated, so that those of us currently living in hell can be saved.
Monica wrote: I don't think we are meant to mess with God's plan and change how we are meant to be born.
This is, no offense, one of the things I don't like about religious thought. The belief in an overriding plan and purpose to things makes people accept things for the way they are or assume they deserve bad things because they are bad. As an atheist, I believe this life is all we've got so I intend to make the best out of things while I'm here.
Yeah I understand what you guys are saying, I just...I dunno... 2 people I know are currently pregnant and it's not like "Oh she's got a bunch of cells in her stomach" it's like "She's got a baby in there that's forming and will come out soon". I just can't count them as anything less, it's just not in me. Like if one of them dies via a miscarriage, that would be sad, just like hearing about someone dying. And I believe the Age of Accountability is between 11 and 13.
I know I'd miss out on a heck of a lot of blessings, like 12 years of Rainbow Camp or my friends at Physical Therapy if I wasn't born as I was. One of them's wife had a baby last year and my mom sewed a baby blanket for me to give them as a present. I just believe how we are born is part of God's plan, but I know you can't really understand as an atheist...^^
Banning stem cell research is fucking stupid.
STEM CELL RESEARCH DOES NOT KILL BABIES...
allow me to repeat that...
[SIZE="6"]STEM CELL RESEARCH DOES NOT KILL BABIES[/SIZE]
ahem.
It simply gives use to either, unwanted, or sadly, miscarried babies. Monica, it could potentially save the life of one of your two pregnant friends, or their currently unborn children.. No offense to anyone here, but anyone who opposes harmless progress in the human race (harmless, because quite simply, researching it does not kill babies, it puts terminated pregnancies to good use, imo) is delusional. Cure for caner, nah, who needs that.
Bush needs to be thrown out of government.
Stop eating eggs it's killing ducks.
Monica wrote:If we are, I don't think killing babies is the way to do it. Killing normal babies to fix handicapped people just doesn't sound right to me at all.
Stop calling them babies. Calling them babies is just the new token approach to making people feel bad. They're not babies, they're not human. They're a small collection of blank cells with no personality, or soul. No more than an egg yoke.
Well, nobody said anything about using miscarried babies, if you can use the cells of miscarried babies after they are miscarried and dead, that'd be okay... As for "unwanted" babies, well, you know what not to do if you don't want a baby. ^_^ And that's the choice the parents made, unless it was an attack in which case if the girl is so traumatised then that might be the only other exception...
Decipher, dunno if that was directed at me, but I hate eggs, they make me gag, lol.
Masa: I just can't help it. ^_^
Monica wrote:As for "unwanted" babies, well, you know what not to do if you don't want a baby.
I remember seeing this 'Pro life' advert on TV at like, 2am.
There was a young girl driving through a forest in a car, i believe.
The voiceover said that a young woman has many choices to make in their life, many important choices, and that the choice she makes is hers alone to make.
'But if you face an unwanted pregnancy, there are other choices to abortion'
In other words, it's you're choice, but abortion is murdering babies, do you want to murder babies? Pro life is religious propaganda. I agree with what Rainman said above, being atheist, i couldn't imagine accepting some baseless 'rule'. I think it's more cruel to let the baby endure a terrible childhood, and turn out to be just like the worthless parents that created him/her during their drunken escapades.
Monica edit: Ack, another accident, edit instead of quote 😞
goKi wrote:I remember seeing this 'Pro life' advert on TV at like, 2am.There was a young girl driving through a forest in a car, i believe.
The voiceover said that a young woman has many choices to make in their life, many important choices, and that the choice she makes is hers alone to make.
'But if you face an unwanted pregnancy, there are other choices to abortion'
In other words, it's you're choice, but abortion is murdering babies, do you want to murder babies? Pro life is religious propaganda. I agree with what Rainman said above, being atheist, i couldn't imagine accepting some baseless 'rule'. I think it's more cruel to let the baby endure a terrible childhood, and turn out to be just like the worthless parents that created him/her during their drunken escapades.
All the sins cause problems all together and start a chain reaction, and just ruin lives. The couple you referred to were probably not married. They were blessed with a child but because they were only thinking about themselves, what could have been a happy family is probably miserable.
I know you can't stop these things from happining because people are sinners by nature, but you can understand why they are sins, because they cause harm and interfere with love. And...eh, I forgot where my point was going, but it's still because of their actions that they forced their child to be born in a terrible place, and they probably don't care...😞
Monica wrote:As for "unwanted" babies, well, you know what not to do if you don't want a baby. ^_^
Unless you're raped, too young to understand the consequences of sex, had your primary method of birth control fail (as in 50% of cases), couldn't get access to birth control, or you're stuck with a pregnancy you can't physically, financially or mentally take care of. And this doesn't depend on something like marriage or chastity. The "lol don't spread your legs then" stance is pretty offensive imo. Just sayin'
There are way too many issues to this debate to begin with. My biggest problem is that people confuse pro-choice with pro-abortion. I believe that abortion should be legal because there are circumstances when it could be used to save the mother's life or in rape cases. However, I don't believe it should be used as a contraception. That makes me pro-choice, even though I don't support it in most cases. It's quite confusing.
Stem cells do not have to come from fetuses, but it is the best place to get them from, so most of the stem cells right now are from fetuses. Stem cell research will go on, just without funding. Besides, pharmaceutical companies can pay for it themselves.
erm2003 wrote:There are way too many issues to this debate to begin with. My biggest problem is that people confuse pro-choice with pro-abortion. I believe that abortion should be legal because there are circumstances when it could be used to save the mother's life or in rape cases. However, I don't believe it should be used as a contraception. That makes me pro-choice, even though I don't support it in most cases. It's quite confusing.
I love abortions. I get a massive erection every time one is performed within 500 miles of me.
phattonez wrote:Stem cells do not have to come from fetuses, but it is the best place to get them from, so most of the stem cells right now are from fetuses. Stem cell research will go on, just without funding. Besides, pharmaceutical companies can pay for it themselves.
This is true and I like private research, but I heard this legislation would bar any institution that receives public funding at all from doing the research.
Meanwhile, China, with a mountain of funds from a trade imbalance with the US(in their favor) and absolutely no moral hangups about working with stem-cells(they have a copious amount of aborted fetus' because of their population controls), the Chinese could very well exceed the rest of the world in bio-technology, resulting in(worst case scenario) an era of Sino-Global domination that validates non-representative government to the rest of the world.
Masamune wrote:I love abortions. I get a massive erection every time one is performed within 500 miles of me.
See, honestly, shit like that kinda pisses me off. Just because abortion may at times be neccesary and isn't the extreme disgrace many people make it out to be doesn't mean that it's all happy-fun-time-lets-joke-about-this-shit. It IS a very serious subject and is a very personal one to a lot of people.
Dechipher wrote:See, honestly, shit like that kinda pisses me off. Just because abortion may at times be neccesary and isn't the extreme disgrace many people make it out to be doesn't mean that it's all happy-fun-time-lets-joke-about-this-shit. It IS a very serious subject and is a very personal one to a lot of people.
lol owned
Lilith wrote:lol owned
You could have at least given me rep.
Christ.
Dechipher wrote:See, honestly, shit like that kinda pisses me off. Just because abortion may at times be neccesary and isn't the extreme disgrace many people make it out to be doesn't mean that it's all happy-fun-time-lets-joke-about-this-shit. It IS a very serious subject and is a very personal one to a lot of people.
Exactly.
This gives me an idea for a flash animation on Bush...
jessethe2nd wrote:This gives me an idea for a flash animation on Bush...
Yeah, there aren't enough of those on the internet.