More Sony Woes

And Laserdiscs have been around since '78. Of course back then, they were not widely used. And CDs weren't used as storage media for quite a while after they were introduced due to the cost.

I once took one of my cartridges and hit it with a hammer and dunked it in the pool. It still worked. I still say that CDs and DVD should come in a protective casing that the player slips it out of to read it. I know we had this discussion before and people were saying that someone would try to pull the disc out of the case and it would get damaged that way, but I still say that it would help prevent the sorts of problems that were discussed above.

Cloral wrote:And Laserdiscs have been around since '78. Of course back then, they were not widely used. And CDs weren't used as storage media for quite a while after they were introduced due to the cost.

I once took one of my cartridges and hit it with a hammer and dunked it in the pool. It still worked. I still say that CDs and DVD should come in a protective casing that the player slips it out of to read it. I know we had this discussion before and people were saying that someone would try to pull the disc out of the case and it would get damaged that way, but I still say that it would help prevent the sorts of problems that were discussed above.

It's cheaper the way it is now, and the easier it is to ruin something, the more copies the consumer has to buy to replace them. It's simple marketing. Besides, casette tapes are technically like that, and they're still easy as crap to break.

{DSG}DarkRaven wrote:It's cheaper the way it is now, and the easier it is to ruin something, the more copies the consumer has to buy to replace them. It's simple marketing.

^ *cough* Sony *cough* PS2

Mottzilla wrote:Really now, CDs were introduced in 1982. ;p

As far as cartridges, you have to actually put crap in the slot to fuck up the copper contacts. But ya, that's much better for kids, atleast the no good PoS kids like today. I mean really... it's not hard to take care of discs.

Not really mainstream. I was also speaking more of music CDs which weren't introduced until the 90s. I had kind of forgotten about PC CDs :P

But that does bring up a good point. Even as a kid I at least remembered to put my damn CDs back in their jewel cases.

Cloral wrote:I still say that CDs and DVD should come in a protective casing that the player slips it out of to read it. I know we had this discussion before and people were saying that someone would try to pull the disc out of the case and it would get damaged that way, but I still say that it would help prevent the sorts of problems that were discussed above.

Yeah, I think it might have been me that mentioned that because I've seen UMD cases come back split apart because people thought they had to take the actual disc out of its case to play it. I've also seen them come back cracked or almost faling apart from just wear and tear.

Warlock wrote:Not really mainstream. I was also speaking more of music CDs which weren't introduced until the 90s. I had kind of forgotten about PC CDs :P

But that does bring up a good point. Even as a kid I at least remembered to put my damn CDs back in their jewel cases.

Nope... Compact Discs were introduced in 1982 to replace LPs in music. Certainly it took awhile to catch on. 1985 was when yellow book (Data CD-ROMs) were established. The original use of the Compact Disc was audio storage.

Anyway, Cloral, I actually agree with you. Discs should come in caddys and drives should accept such. It would provide some protection to the disc that is obviously needed seeing how some people never put the damn things in their cases. But such a change is too great and too expensive to do now, but to newer formats perhaps.

Caddy's would be very difficult to use for CD players, no doubt. Maybe that's why they were left unprotected, because they were more familiar that way? After all, a CD looks just like a record, and if they were to try and switch to some sort of technologically awkward looking medium, it might not have caught on as well or as fast.

Uh, no they would be difficult to introduce NOW. Back then, they certainly could have made it standard. At first PC CD-ROMs used caddys. For certain things nowdays though, you might be able to do it. But retro fitting such to older uses is a no no. Originally Blu-Ray (pre TDK protective coating) needed a caddy to protect it as it was so much more weak against scratching.

In my experience CDs are pretty durable. I've only had a couple of them become unusable (I cracked them) and I don't pamper mine at all. I leave them in stacks around my desk or in my car. If a cd becomes scratched I clean it with a disk doctor. If I still can't use it after that, which has only happened a few times, I buff it out with some (1500-2000 grit) sandpaper and polishing compound. Works every time.

I'd rather keep cd's the way they are than build a protective cassette around them. That would just give companies justification to charge us more for "materials".

I hope the PS3 gets delayed until after christmas. That would be murder on it's sales. I think for the sake of gaming, the PS3 needs to fail. If this becomes a winning formula, causing even Nintendo to follow, Console gaming will be all but doomed.

Harsh Goki, but (in my opinion, at least) I have to agree with you. Sony keeps pushing and pushing with the PS3 and I want them to push so far they fall over a cliff. Seriously, there's so much wrong with what they're doing it beggars belief.

But Nintendo will always do their own thing. You know it, and I know it.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/top/kutaragi-obsessed-with-tech-internal-sony-strife--ps3-seen-as-risk-187680.php

Further proof that Kutaragi is insane.

Don't get me wrong, i've grown up with Nintendo. I'm not a fanboy. I'll only be buying a Wii this generation though, due to complete disinterest in the X360 (mostly price related), and i just quite simply HATE Sony. A consumer electronics market without Sony would progress much better, without them trying to push their crap onto everyone. I just realised i'm probably coming across as fanboyish, but really, i just despise Sony's strategy. Seems like alot of others inside Sony do too.

XD

sony is SERIOUSLY gonna bomb if what goki said is true.

and I agree, I SERIOUSLY hope it gets delayed past christmas.

Nice article, Goki. On the one hand, it could be easily dismissed as being a fake, which, for the traffic it will generate, is not a half bad scheme, despite being completely unethical. On the other hand, I don't doubt it's truth, because obviously Sony is not firing on all cylinders when it comes to the PS3. Hearing that small and medium developers are switching to Wii and DS, and even X360, that's good news. Especially considering that the cost of PS3 games is still not nailed down.

That article is more than likely true. Kotaku are a pretty reliable source, i can't remember anything they posted of that manner turning out to be fake.

I'd think that's true. They've said in the past how different it is to develop for the Cell and such. Plus when you mix the fact that the development tools aren't all there, it's hard to build games. Smaller developers can't afford such BS. That is probably why developers would go to 360, Wii, and DS. All the development tools to make your games are already done and ready for you. Sure beats waiting around in the dark hoping you'll be able to finish your game someday.

Darth Marsden wrote:Harsh Goki, but (in my opinion, at least) I have to agree with you. Sony keeps pushing and pushing with the PS3 and I want them to push so far they fall over a cliff. Seriously, there's so much wrong with what they're doing it beggars belief.

But Nintendo will always do their own thing. You know it, and I know it.

I don't think they are so much pushing. I think they just bit off way more than they can chew. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to believe that a console that expensive with that many potential problems is going to do well. But when Sony realized that maybe thye were trying to do too much and commited to it, what were they supposed to do? Change everything. Now they are kinda stuck with what they have.

Granted, I'm not a huge Sony fan, I'll admit that freely. I am truly glad Nintendo is going the cheap route. Imagine what would happen if Nintendo was going to be as expensive as the 360 and Wii. What would stop the game prices from continuing to go up?

I agree with your Orion, Sony bit off too much and can't go back on it now. They could no forsee the problems they are experiencing now. No one knew such issues would come up. However I do think they had chances for changes. One of the biggest things in my opinion is the Blu-Ray. It's just not lining up with the timing for the PS3 production well. I think the technology is still far too new and expensive. But actually the Cell processor is proving to be a real problem. I'd say changing that would have been too hard to do seeing how old this Cell BS is. They still keep trying to push on us how great it is. I don't think it's special at all.

I still can't imagine what the hard drive will need to be expanded for. 60gb is a huge amount of space. Unless someone finds a way to play illegal movies on a PS3. But hey, why not just use your PC for that.

Coming up with a new processor design (unless they have some contingency to fall back on) would murder the PS3. They're stuck with CELL, for better or worse, until PS4. Changing the console now might actually be a good idea though, for all the trouble it's worth. They'd miss out on the current race, but if they held out for a little while, they could potentially recapture the market with a newer, better console in two years. It would damage their reputation considerably and hinder them for generations, but at least it wouldn't be a colossal flop, right? Would any of you be interested in buying the PS3.5 if Sony did something like this?

It certainly looks like Sony were riding on their wave of success with the PS2, and rightfully so, but that allowed for Nintendo to take focus away from the ailing Gamecube, and focus attention towards the next generation (new generation). It looks like Nintendo's efforts will pay off.

Actually, did you hear the first PS3 units are going to be ready within the month? So it is far too late for changes now... They really have no choice whatsoever.

I totally agree they were riding the wave that was the PSX and PS2. While they were busy counting the money, Nintendo and Microsoft were busy tuning their strategy. I hope it pays off for both M$ and Nintendo.

By the way, thanks for the name fix goKi. 😉

MottZilla wrote:I agree with your Orion, Sony bit off too much and can't go back on it now. They could no forsee the problems they are experiencing now. No one knew such issues would come up. However I do think they had chances for changes. One of the biggest things in my opinion is the Blu-Ray. It's just not lining up with the timing for the PS3 production well. I think the technology is still far too new and expensive. But actually the Cell processor is proving to be a real problem. I'd say changing that would have been too hard to do seeing how old this Cell BS is. They still keep trying to push on us how great it is. I don't think it's special at all.

Exactly, it's hubris. They are so confident that Blu-ray is going to be "the next big media format" that they will take the risk in order to get it into homes. The problem is, I have a feeling Blu-ray is not going to fare any better than their dumbass UMDs (which incidentally Target has already decided to stop carrying entirely - I'm sure other stores will follow). It's all about controlling the market. And frankly, the leap from DVD to Blu-Ray vs. the leap from VHS to DVD is not nearly as profound - not to mention it assumes people have HD TVs which not too many do.

Don't get me wrong, I generally like.. or liked.. Sony, but lately they have been to put it bluntly "pulling a Nintendo".

Incidentally speaking of Nintendo, notice how good Nintendo is doing now that Yamauchi is out of office? It took a couple years for Iwata to be really effective, but I blame most of that on GC launching under Yamauchi with too many fundamental problems to be successful vs. PS2/Xbox. But starting with the Nintendo DS, and looking at the extremely positive reaction to the Wii (even from people who have generally hated Nintendo), then add some luck for them with this blunder by Sony, things are really looking up since Iwata took charge.

The 360's hard drive is 20gb, the same size as the smaller PS3 hard drive. And that's plenty. There is no reason you would need an extra 40gb.

edit:
Damnit, I didn't realize there was a whole other page of discussion. This post looks horribly out of place now.

Well, as far as the cell processor goes, not many are looking forward to developing for it. Everyone is used to developing for a 2 core system (CPU and GPU), so learning to develop for a multi-core system effectively is going to take some time. And yest the 360 has 3 CPUs, but the way they set it up you don't really have to write your program around that fact - you can take your existing code and rework it slightly to make it work across processors. I don't think that'll work as well on the PS3.

Warlock wrote:The problem is, I have a feeling Blu-ray is not going to fare any better than their dumbass UMDs (which incidentally Target has already decided to stop carrying entirely - I'm sure other stores will follow).

I quoted IMDB on this on the first page, back when the discussion turned to CD scratching for a while.

A curious thought... what if both Blu-ray and HD-DVD fail? I mean, I don't think it's possible to so completely fail that we won't see either format ever again, but faced with the facts that many of you have listed, about high prices, low amounts of HD TV's owned by the general public, etc., wouldn't it be hillarious if neither format becomes a success for years to come?

Actually, in my opinion that is exactly what will happen. It's too early for both formats. Blu-Ray has a better chance of success though since it'll be tied to the PS3 hardware. Really though, it's too expensive and insignificant of technology. Wow, higher resolution video. But wait, it'll cost you an arm and a leg, plus you need to spend the other arm and leg on a TV to watch it! Now you have no arms or legs but atleast you have a slightly better picture for your 30$ or more movies!

I do think for archiving purposes or storage purposes that technology like Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are needed. But for movies, no way. Music, nope. Games? Maybe in a couple years. But ya, too soon is just all I have to say about that.

And like Cloral said, developing for Cell is alot different and perhaps very difficult for smaller developers. Plus the lack of support/dev tools could make it even more frustrating for smaller devs. Anyways, really it's looking good for M$ and Nintendo, and I just hope it stays that way.

{DSG}DarkRaven wrote:I quoted IMDB on this on the first page, back when the discussion turned to CD scratching for a while.

A curious thought... what if both Blu-ray and HD-DVD fail? I mean, I don't think it's possible to so completely fail that we won't see either format ever again, but faced with the facts that many of you have listed, about high prices, low amounts of HD TV's owned by the general public, etc., wouldn't it be hillarious if neither format becomes a success for years to come?

Weren't laser discs like the size of LP records?

MottZilla wrote:Weren't laser discs like the size of LP records?

Bigger I think.