Illegal Immigrants

That's one of the first things that i noticed when i came to the USA. So much is written in Spanish, even the ATM gives you an option to select Spanish. Down here, EVERYTHING is in English, except on odd occasion (say, a foreign store), and in Asian districts in large cities. It's near on impossible to live in Australia without a good understanding of English.

I'm also torn on the issue, but in a different way. On the one hand, there wouldn't be any illegal immigrants if businesses wouldn't hire them. Very simple - no jobs = no immigrants. Therefore, if you want to blame anyone for the problem, blame the people who look the other way in hiring them.

On the other hand, though, the simple fact remains that being illegal immigrants, they have no rights. No right to minimum wage, no right to safe working conditions, no right to health care... And they're one of the largest groups that are the targets of crimes, including robbery and murder, simply because an illegal immigrant is FAR less likely to report a crime (for fear that they'll be found out and deported if they do).

As for the English thing, living in basically a bilingual town (McAllen is right on the border), it doesn't bother me as much. If we want to make it an issue, we should make English the official language, but as we don't have one, I don't see how it's something to complain about.

MacWeirdo42 wrote:I'm also torn on the issue, but in a different way. On the one hand, there wouldn't be any illegal immigrants if businesses wouldn't hire them. Very simple - no jobs = no immigrants. Therefore, if you want to blame anyone for the problem, blame the people who look the other way in hiring them.

On the other hand, though, the simple fact remains that being illegal immigrants, they have no rights. No right to minimum wage, no right to safe working conditions, no right to health care... And they're one of the largest groups that are the targets of crimes, including robbery and murder, simply because an illegal immigrant is FAR less likely to report a crime (for fear that they'll be found out and deported if they do).

As for the English thing, living in basically a bilingual town (McAllen is right on the border), it doesn't bother me as much. If we want to make it an issue, we should make English the official language, but as we don't have one, I don't see how it's something to complain about.

I know, but I wouldn't expect to go to Japan or France or Somewhere where I know what the majority language is and expect them to incorperate English into their lives, it just doesn't make sense and would just cause trouble and confusion. I would learn as much of their language as possible, official or not.

goKi wrote:That's one of the first things that i noticed when i came to the USA. So much is written in Spanish, even the ATM gives you an option to select Spanish. Down here, EVERYTHING is in English, except on odd occasion (say, a foreign store), and in Asian districts in large cities. It's near on impossible to live in Australia without a good understanding of English.

I agree that they should learn English, but that's not always so simple and in the mean time they need to be able to function.

I don't really have any set opinion on immigration. We are an immigrant nation so I don't think we should totally shut ourselves off.

You know the only people who are protesting a crack-down on illegal immigrants?

Illegal immigrants.

They seem to feel no pressure to learn english. I feel an equal lack of pressure to know Spanish. The only time I will have a problem with it is if they aren't required to learn english be americans are required to learn spanish. Fuck that.

Also, business owners who hire an illegal immigrant should lose their business and have all the money donated to charity.

Rainman wrote:Well, that's because Australia is a basically an island to itself. We have a lot of spanish speaking countries to the south.

I agree that they should learn English, but that's not always so simple and in the mean time they need to be able to function.

I don't really have any set opinion on immigration. We are an immigrant nation so I don't think we should totally shut ourselves off.

Let me see if i can find a percentage of Australian residents who were born in Asia.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/as.html

There we go, scroll down. It's a little dated (i think it was 7% in about 1997, apparantely, predictions say that by 2020, 1/4 of Australian residents will be of Asian descent.)

For comparison, 12% of US citizens are Mexican. Given that doesn't include the illegal immigrants. Not a huge difference in percentage, but we don't feel the need to adapt our way of life to suit theirs.

Also, unlike mexicans, Asians don't complain that an entire nation won't learn their language just to accomodate their unwillingness to put effort into integrating into a new culture.

Since English is the defacto language I would say that any immigrants, legal or not, should learn it.

I would say to throw them out, more jobs for legal people, but I am also for the original US way of letting all in.
Or I don't know.

Of course in either case employers should get fined/jailed for giving them jobs.

Beldaran wrote:Also, business owners who hire an illegal immigrant should lose their business and have all the money donated to charity.

What about businesses who own sweatshops overseas and pay less than a can of pepsi for their labor? Because, you know, a LOT of businesses do that.

AlexMax wrote:What about businesses who own sweatshops overseas and pay less than a can of pepsi for their labor? Because, you know, a LOT of businesses do that.

Their American branches should be shut down and they should pay a fee proportional to their domestic sales. I'd be happy with that.

Illegal immigrants are just that: illegal. They broke our laws coming here, and like anyone on our soil, should be punished accordingly. The problem is, there are apparently 20 million of them, and that's no easy task. Deporting them would be very, very difficult, and could take years, not to mention lots and lots of money and manpower. Granting them amnesty would mean an immediate boost to our population, and might well wreak havoc on all sorts of census related things, like taxes, school funding, welfare, etc.

The issue is highly political, and that's why it's such a big deal. Any way you act on it, it's unpopular with millions of people, many of whom either make the country function or are registered voters. I've got nothing against immigrants, and heck, I am Mexican by blood, but sneaking into a country is illegal, and just because lots of people do it, doesn't mean it's not.

The problem is they're making a racial issue out of it instead of an economic one. People are saying "um, you're ILLEGAL, that's why you're breaking the law" and they're saying "omfg U HATE ME BECAUSE I'M MEXICCAAAAN".

Lilith wrote:The problem is they're making a racial issue out of it instead of an economic one. People are saying "um, you're ILLEGAL, that's why you're breaking the law" and they're saying "omfg U HATE ME BECAUSE I'M MEXICCAAAAN".

Precisely. The reason I dislike illegal immigrants is not because they are [insert race]. It's because they move here, don't learn the language, fark up the economy, cause rampant crime, and build communities in which everyone has 29853 kids and no education. Then they blame me for it because I'm white.

We focused on the illegal immigrant problem for a month or two here over the pond a year or so ago. Quite frankly, I don't mind, as long as they learn to speak good English, avoid breaking the law and (if they work in a corner shop) don't charge over 60 pence for a can of Coke. Well, that's how I felt when I was at Univeristy... We don't have many foreign people living where I am. The only ones I can think of are the guys who run that yummy pizza/chicken takeaway down the road, and they're pretty nice.

Oh, this is great. Finally I get my chance to be heard.
I live in Lake Tahoe, California
Starting about 20 yrs ago, the hispanics started comming here for work.
At first there were just a few.
People here started hiring them for labor work.
Since then they just kept comming

I am a stone mason, and naturally they gravitated towards my kind of work.
Now all the contractors hire them , and teach them the trade.
And now the contractors are complaining that they cant make money anymore.
It's because the Hispanics became skilled labor, and now there are crews of them, working under the table, doing the same thing I do, and they work for less money than i will.
So they have driven the price of masonry way down, and now it's hard to compete with them.
They have been taking work that I used to get.

Now if I want to work for a contractor, I have to work with the Hispanics.
Which means I have to listen to their music all day, and wonder what they are talking about, The days are gone, when every job I worked on listened to rock and roll, now, every job site is all spanish, all the time.
They force their way of life on me, I dont want to be mexican,
and I dont want to listen to their music.
Mark my words, these people are not stupid, soon they will become better skilled, some are becomming educated, others are getting into politics.
So the argument that they only take labor jobs is bs.
Soon they will be taking your job too.
Also there is a matter of respect, many of them have no respect for us white folk.
They come here and litter my beautiful mountains with garbage.
I see them throwing their garbage out of their cars while driving.
Also, my 9yr old daughter was going to a school here where she was the minority.
The school was teaching half the day in spanish, the other half in english, which I had a real problem with.
Then the school informs me that they want to start a class that was 100% spanish all the time, and asked if I wanted my daughter to be in the class.
But the worse thing about it was that most of the Hispanic men I have met around here have no respect for women.
They teach their kids the same.
So my daughter would be in school and the hispanic boys would say all these discusting and nasty things to her, alot of it was sexual harassment.
So I had to take my daughter out of the school and send her to a school that was predominately white, and things were alot better for her.

Another problem I have is when I take my girlfriend out to dinner etc.. I will be with her , and its obvious she is with me, I have had the mexican men make rude gestures to her when I wasnt looking, then when I look, they turn their head as if nothing was going on. This has happened several times, but my girlfriend wont tell me when its happening because she is afraid of what might happen.
Well i will tell you whats going to happen, I will probably go to jail for assault with intent to kill.

Pretty soon I will have to move from here, I will go to northern Idaho, to get away from them, eventually I plan to move to Mexico, because they will all be living here.

I'm sure many of you will think I'm a racist, and i dont care, they are taking over my way of life, taking money out of my pocket, treating my women like crud, littering my countryside. I want them out before they ruin my country.

I think that right now, this is THE most important topic in the forums.
Think about this, soon our govenment will decide on this issue, what they decide will effect all our lives from now on.
If they decide to allow these illegal aliens, to become citizens, then how likely will it become easier for them to bring the rest of their family here?
They will all have the right to apply for welfare, food stamps, etc.
They WILL take jobs away from the rest of us sooner or later,
It all boils down to competition, if you dont mind competing with them
then go ahead and let them in.
Think about how it will effect your children, all those extra people to compete with, as if it's not hard enough already.

It's not about racism, its about competition!
We need to take a stand against it, before it's too late.

granite wrote:SNIPPED, on request of Granite.

I understand what you're talking about, I have the same problem in my town with uneducated black people. Just replace all of your instances of Mexican/Spanish with Black/Black History and you've just described my school and my town. I just mentioned this to say no I don't think you're a racist...

Man, that sucks ass. I totally sympathise. You're right, there's not an awful lot you can do about it. All I can say is... They Took Your Job!

(I feel such a nerd posting that, but trust me, it'll make you smile)

First of all, if you are not of native american descent this is not "YOUR" country. your family immigrated here just like any other family at one point. i dont recall reading that when christopher colombus came here he was greeted by blonde haired blue eyed people.

People who are for or against immigration reform both have valid points but we cant just deport every single illegal immigrant or continue to let them come over illegally. Is anyone raising the question as to WHY theyre are willing to come here, leaving everything behind from their native country, risking their life crossing over, working for meager wages and usually live in poverty. dont you think the their living conditions could have been worse in their own country.

Instead of saying dont let illegal immigrants come here, we should be saying what could be done in their own countries so they wouldnt have to come here.

also i would like to say that i am a hispanic. my grandparents immigrated here, became citizens, learned a substancial amount of english [though with heavy accents] and worked hard until they were both 65. im the first member of my family to attend college. my family was given an oppurtunity to make a life for themselves here. other should have the same oppurtunity whether they come illegally or not in my opinion.

i dont think it would be right for it to be a FELONY for being an illegal alien or helping one.
and regarding comments made by granite.. i find it highly racist when people refer to other races with words like 'THEIR', 'THOSE PEOPLE', 'THEM'. i dont know in what context you were using the words in, but thats how i took it.

copsgotguns wrote:First of all, if you are not of native american descent this is not "YOUR" country.

It is too our country. We're legal citizens of a government by the people and for the people. We vote, we elect representatives, we are certainly allowed to have an opinion about OUR country.

copsgotguns wrote:we should be saying what could be done in their own countries so they wouldnt have to come here.

We should tie our hands with regards to immigration and wait for Mexico to fix its economy? I don't think so. We should be talking about solutions to the problem, rather than having a little hippy circle jerk about how we need to all get along. Illegal immigrants come here and cause problems. If they came here and made things better, it wouldn't be a problem. We need to send them home and keep them from coming back unless they are citizens.

Beldaran wrote:We need to send them home

do you think they even have homes to go back to?

True enough, to a point, Cops, but we most of us, as far as I know, aren't registered to vote in other countries. Besides, if start telling other countries what to do all the time, foreigners hate us because we're imperialist pigs, etc. There's no magic bullet for this problem. No easy solution, no easy fix.

The harsh reality is, this world is just not as friendly as it used to be, and an open door policy in regards to immigration just isn't feasible. As much as some people would like to think, America just can't police the entire world. Beefing up security at our borders, keeping people out, these things might not be kind or politically correct, but it's the easiest blanket solution to safeguard our country. The safer we want to be, the more freedom we're going to have to sacrifice, both within our borders and without.

--------

You reposted before I did. Blast!

Yes, they DO have homes to go back to, but it all depends on what you consider a home. We're used to living in good quality homes on our own property here. In poorer countries, people are used to less. Granted, some people are used to a lot less, but not everyone in mexico is as bad off as you think.

Your right, some of the things I said were racist.
Not all the hispanics do the aweful things I described.
I realize they are individuals

I do happen to be part Cherokee, but not enough to use it as an excuse.

History will tell you that mass immigration, has always caused people to get angry.

Call it racism if you want, but to be honest, as a whole, the hispanic immigrants have done nothing for me except make my life harder.

The mass immigrations you are referring to happened long ago, there was alot more room for them way back then.

We don't have room here to handle Mexico's overpopulation problem.

And your saying that I should help Mexico, so that they dont have to come here?
Crap, either way I have to pay for their problems.
:scared: 😕 :shakeno:

{DSG}DarkRaven wrote:True enough, to a point, Cops, but we most of us, as far as I know, aren't registered to vote in other countries. Besides, if start telling other countries what to do all the time, foreigners hate us because we're imperialist pigs, etc. There's no magic bullet for this problem. No easy solution, no easy fix.

The harsh reality is, this world is just not as friendly as it used to be, and an open door policy in regards to immigration just isn't feasible. As much as some people would like to think, America just can't police the entire world. Beefing up security at our borders, keeping people out, these things might not be kind or politically correct, but it's the easiest blanket solution to safeguard our country. The safer we want to be, the more freedom we're going to have to sacrifice, both within our borders and without.

I guess im too idealistic. Though i dont like it, what youre saying is probably the most logical solution for now. Though i dont know how they are going to keep out immigrants who are coming in the millions. and to get off topic for a second no one is looking at how fast the human population is growing. but illegal immigration and overpopulation would be the least of our worries, with global warming and all.

copsgotguns wrote:First of all, if you are not of native american descent this is not "YOUR" country. your family immigrated here just like any other family at one point. i dont recall reading that when christopher colombus came here he was greeted by blonde haired blue eyed people.

People who are for or against immigration reform both have valid points but we cant just deport every single illegal immigrant or continue to let them come over illegally. Is anyone raising the question as to WHY theyre are willing to come here, leaving everything behind from their native country, risking their life crossing over, working for meager wages and usually live in poverty. dont you think the their living conditions could have been worse in their own country.

Instead of saying dont let illegal immigrants come here, we should be saying what could be done in their own countries so they wouldnt have to come here.

also i would like to say that i am a hispanic. my grandparents immigrated here, became citizens, learned a substancial amount of english [though with heavy accents] and worked hard until they were both 65. im the first member of my family to attend college. my family was given an oppurtunity to make a life for themselves here. other should have the same oppurtunity whether they come illegally or not in my opinion.

i dont think it would be right for it to be a FELONY for being an illegal alien or helping one.
and regarding comments made by granite.. i find it highly racist when people refer to other races with words like 'THEIR', 'THOSE PEOPLE', 'THEM'. i dont know in what context you were using the words in, but thats how i took it.

I have nothing against you personally, but what your saying is that since your family immigrated here from Mexico
now you want to make it easier for more mexican immigrants to follow.

Thanks for helping make my point!

granite wrote:I have nothing against you personally, but what your saying is that since your family immigrated here from Mexico
now you want to make it easier for more mexican immigrants to follow.

Thanks for helping make my point!

woops. probably should have stated..im from the dominican republic.

and i didnt say i wanted to make it easier, im saying it shouldnt be a felony to be one or to help one.

That's the thing, Cops. You're only thinking in regards to the current issue. Illegal immigration is MUCH bigger than the southwest border. Mexican immigration is easy to pass off because so many people do it, and quite honestly, most of them are just looking for a better quality of life. The real problem stems from economic issues, drug trafficing, terrorism, black market weapons and organs, things like that. People get hung up on a hot button issue like this and fail to see the whole. It's not immigration that's a problem, it's not even illegal immigration that's so bad. It's rampant illegal immigration, and with a higher number of immigrants, you get a higher number of bad apples.

copsgotguns wrote:First of all, if you are not of native american descent this is not "YOUR" country. your family immigrated here just like any other family at one point. i dont recall reading that when christopher colombus came here he was greeted by blonde haired blue eyed people.

People who are for or against immigration reform both have valid points but we cant just deport every single illegal immigrant or continue to let them come over illegally. Is anyone raising the question as to WHY theyre are willing to come here, leaving everything behind from their native country, risking their life crossing over, working for meager wages and usually live in poverty. dont you think the their living conditions could have been worse in their own country.

Instead of saying dont let illegal immigrants come here, we should be saying what could be done in their own countries so they wouldnt have to come here.

also i would like to say that i am a hispanic. my grandparents immigrated here, became citizens, learned a substancial amount of english [though with heavy accents] and worked hard until they were both 65. im the first member of my family to attend college. my family was given an oppurtunity to make a life for themselves here. other should have the same oppurtunity whether they come illegally or not in my opinion.

i dont think it would be right for it to be a FELONY for being an illegal alien or helping one.
and regarding comments made by granite.. i find it highly racist when people refer to other races with words like 'THEIR', 'THOSE PEOPLE', 'THEM'. i dont know in what context you were using the words in, but thats how i took it.

I'm aware Europeans are "foreign" here as well...most people are, but that doesn't change the current system of government. If we magically decided to give the government back to the Native Americans tommorow, would be "right"? Possibly. Would it create mass chaos and fuck up the entire nation for an indefinate amount of time? Yes.

I'm Italian, and my family was the "mexicans" of their generation when they immigrated, but they were assimilated because they WANTED to learn how to be American, and BE American. We assimilated culturally and became a part of society. When you're dealing with a minority immigrant that is seperatist this usually isn't the case. Especially in a culture that is tripping over itself to be PC and give special treatment. If you give a group like that special/different treatment for a long time, it hinders them assimilating into normal society in many cases.

And yes, MEXICO should be evaluating their own fucked up government that causes so much of their population to live terribly and then flee. Not America. We can't always be Team America: World Police.

We're dealing with the current problem in our nation of an impoverished country's population pouring into ours and recieving government services while not paying government taxes. That is the issue currently. If any nation has a ton of immigrants who would like to come in legally and work, that's great. I'd prefer they at least be documented so we can be sure they're free of foreign diseases.

Here where I live there are several places where the Illegal's gather to wait for someone to drive up and hire them.

I dont understand why this is allowed to happen.

You would think that since the are involved with illegal activity, I should be able to call the sheriff, have them arrested.
But no, the sheriff will say that it is an INS problem. And there is nothing they can do.

Gives me an idea, I am going to call INS and complain about it.
I have even thought about going to these places with a video camera, to catch it on tape.

But I figured if I did that, I would become a target , and probably end up dead.

I have been checking into the organization called the Minute Men. But they only patrol th border.

I need help HERE, there must be a way I can influence the law to do their job.

If I witness any other crime, I can call the cops, and they are obligated to investigate.

Sombody please tell me what I can do about it here, in northern California.😕 😡 :scared: 😞

The apartment full of mexicans next to me is stuffed more then a bean burrito. We dont want anymore illegal immigrants to enter the United States. If the United States wants to change the law from a civil violation to a felony, then im all for it.