Nightmare wrote:Another strategy could be the fact that you could do each level one at a time and have a contest for each: If a person wins a level, then they can't submit for any other level, same goes for the overworld.Is that any good?
-James
I like this idea. I voted for 5th Quest because I think that with the right execution it could be great. However, I like this idea as well. A community quest where each dungeon is created by a different person and put into the game. It make for some interesting ideas and combinations.
So it looks like a up to half of everyone that either voted or posted is varying degrees of interested in a 5th quest, and with up to about 3/4ths of everyone supporting the idea that ZC needs a newer demo/neofirst/etc type quest that can showcase what ZC can do.
So the first thing to do would be to get a consensus on previous rules (from the 4th), along with any newer rules or guidelines that would have to be followed, and finally, figure out what new features can be allowed and the point in which *overuse* will start to detract points. We also need to set a starting date and assemble a base team of judges.
There is also some concern that an Nth quest will at some point start getting redundant (which I totally get), so this should be the last one; "V: The final chapter", "The master NES quest", "What Nintendo never wanted you to see", et al.
We also need to start hashing out ideas for the neofirst-type quest as well. Development of this will likely take some time, so we could probably use a few initial volunteers to get it started.
Thoughts?
Well, I think this idea really sounds great. THOUGH, I guess there would be huge limitations if we want to make a 5th quest, right? The quest would have to Zelda-styled. With actual Zelda gameplay.
A "different" quest, for example an arcade quest or something like that would not be allowed, would it? I mean, ZC can not ONLY make Zelda games, even if it's best at doing that.
So, my idea would be to have a quest packaged with ZC that shows what else ZC can do, other than Zelda games.
Just popping in really quickly to give my thoughts. Rather than have a contest for an official 5th or something, we should do something like NeoFirst. When I first saw NeoFirst, it fascinated me. Here was a group of several people, all teaming up to make an awesome quest, collaborating on all the details, sharing the file publicly, asking the general community to contribute, etc. Part of me would like to see NeoFirst revived, but at the same time, I feel like it's too old now, and not quite as shiny as it appeared to be back then. So a new project, similar to NeoFirst, would be the best way to go.
Part of the reason I don't want to see an official 5th is, well... most people, when they see ZC, assume "Oh look, Zelda 1 clone". If all our official quests are basically just Zelda 1 clones, then we're not helping our case. The next official quest oughta be something big, something that really shows just how far ZC has come and what it's capable of. And I think a big collaboration project similar to NeoFirst would be perfect for that.
Yeah, actually I agree with Russ here, too. Boring Z1 clones are getting old and I loved lots of the things that were going to be in NeoFirst, like the Sand rod and more! That was surely amazing and way more interesting.
Russ wrote:Stuff
I agree with you Russ. I was around for the initial discussions that led to NeoFirst. The idea was perfect, a new demo that would show what ZC could do made by talented people. I would love to see that vision fulfilled but I also think that will take quite a lot of time. 5th quest is the easiest of the contest ideas we have so far and it can't hurt ZC. The Z1 enthusiasts can enjoy the end of the Nth quests and the rest can be shunted into the grander plans of what else ZC can do.
The idea of continuing the Nth quest line has received more support than I thought it would. Even if that contest started today a new "NeoFirst" could start and a new contest to. It all depends on what the community is willing to give. From what I can see from the poll so far is favored towards a new contest, 5th quest, and a newccommunity quest.
With that in mind we put them in order of simplest and quickest it goes:
5th, new, community
Its not the most ingenious way to look at it but it makes sense to me. I'd like to focus on getting one idea set and ready and why not start with the easiest?
That's something I'd really like to see, but keep in mind that if you do go the community project route, it requires each team member to really be involved with what each person is doing, especially in a program such as Zelda Classic which is more geared toward individual quest making, as opposed to group quest making. It's been a long time since I've messed around with ZC, so I'm a bit rusty, but from what I remember there's an import/export function for your various components. Some group projects I've seen around the internet tried to pull off some difficult stunts, such as passing a "source" file around for each person to add their contributions or they saddle one guy with adding absolutely everything together. Hopefully the import/export functions are powerful enough to take care of that, but if not, that's something that'll have to be decided very early on.
Whatever direction the game goes in though, one thing to keep in mind is that a community project is at once a gift, because it allows you to divide what would be a nigh-impossible feat of time and techno wizardry into more sizable chunks, and a curse, because it's also very easy for a single game, even if it has some of the best creators the community has to offer, to end up feeling like forty personal projects rather than what it should be - one game. One of the design challenges of a community project, I think, is overcoming that. A peer review process in which each contributor provides feedback and criticism tends to work very well and ensures that each individual gets to add a bit of themselves to each level, and that works to make the game feel cohesive and consistent. And in a community project with many different design styles and beliefs of what makes a fun game, that cohesion is vital.
I agree that a quest that is to be packaged with the program should be a demo quest that shows off the capabilities of the base program. There are so many new features it's important to see how they work. I think scripting should be kept to a minimum. I understand you can do just about anything with scripting, if you're good with it, but a new user won't realize that the cool thing they saw featured in the demo quest isn't part of the editor and it requires scripting know how to pull off. I also think that cut scenes should be short and minimal. You want to show off new items, enemies, and mechanics, not have the player sit through twenty minutes of exposition. The same goes for gameplay. Epic quests are fine elsewhere, but a new player needs to be engaged right at the get go and have a simple structure that takes them from one feature to the next.
As for a Nth quest, personally I am not a fan of them but if the community wants to do it, go for it. I think it should be a separate download for those who want to experience it. Calling it "Unofficial" and packaging it with the program will make people think it's something like what I mentioned above.
I'm not sure how a community project with multiple contributors is normally done. I think it would require one person to be the director. Someone who outlines the story and progression of the quest, with the contributors filling the details of their parts.