I hope you guys can help me out

Do I know you? I go to SIUE. We don't generally like this kind of advertisement/surveying from new members.

Please direct any questions or concerns about the current research project or rights of participants to the principle investigator David Bedwell at [email][email protected][/email]. You may also contact Dr. Dan Segrist at [email][email protected][/email] or (618) 650-3159. If you are a participant and become worried about your emotional and physical responses to the project’s activities, then we encourage you to notify us immediately. We will work with you to help identify the problem and solve it. If you have any questions about your rights or any other concerns, you may also contact Linda Skelton with the SIUE Institutional Review Board at (618) 650-2958 or [email][email protected][/email].

It sounds legit, which means it's fake.

We use this survey monkey quite a bit at school. I took a survey through it last semester after a student came to the class to talk about his survey. I know who Linda Skelton is as well.

I'm not filling it out on principle because this guy came here just to post the survey. Maybe if he were working on a masters in spam propagation or something but it's always bugged me when someone shows up all "I have to get X people to take it so I searched for "video game forum" on Google and signed up for 20 forums. I wish I could take results away 😡

*edit*
Also I wish the colleges docked grades for doing it too. How's he know whether our group fits the profile he's looking for or not? Half the people on this forum don't even play video games anymore. It reeks of bad science to me.

You should fill it out several times to fuck up the results. That'll teach em.

Well at least the guy is being polite and doing it in the pursuit of education. Far less annoying than typical spam.

AtmaWeapon wrote:I'm not filling it out on principle because this guy came here just to post the survey. Maybe if he were working on a masters in spam propagation or something but it's always bugged me when someone shows up all "I have to get X people to take it so I searched for "video game forum" on Google and signed up for 20 forums. I wish I could take results away 😡

*edit*
Also I wish the colleges docked grades for doing it too. How's he know whether our group fits the profile he's looking for or not? Half the people on this forum don't even play video games anymore. It reeks of bad science to me.

Yeah, my guess is that its just coincidence that he goes to my school. Probably did a search for forums with games or video games in the name and just posted this generic topic in hopes of getting hits, as you said. I'm not surprised, coming from my school. We don't exactly produce high caliber collegiate grads.

I dont know if you know me. Send me an email. Sorry if I have offended anyone. I am just trying to collect data for my thesis. I have received a lot of responses, and I would like to thank everyone who has helped me out. Getting a masters degree is very stressful and I appreciate everyones help. I still need a few particpants, so if anyone has 5-10 minutes to take a survey I would appreciate it. However, I do not wish to cause any issues in this forum. I will take down my posts if there is any serious objection to them. Thanks again to everyone that has helped me out.

First off, I would like to let everyone know that this is not spam, and I am just collecting research for my thesis. Anthony, I am guessing you are an undergrad. when you start your senior assignment and need to collect data, you will have a different tone. SIUE has an excellent graduate program and has alumni attending Doctorial program at very prestigious universities. Others have gone on to pursue jobs working for hospitals, clinics, and some even opening private practices. Personally, I have been able to work at Alton Mental Health Center (a psychiatric forensic facility). From this experience I have enhanced my knowledge pertaining to mental disorders and have learned multiple therapeutic techniques to help individuals suffering from pathological issues. My research is specifically related to Video Game Use, so yes I searched out forums related to the topic. I posted my comment in the general discussion section as to not offend anyone that are interested in the other topics. I have no exclusionary characteristics associated with my research. This means that everyone fits the profile for my research. I am very disappointed with you Anthony. SIUE is an excellent university. It is not right to degrade anyone who works hard to further their education.

Lol. Well, okay. I'm sure some departments are better than others. I'm a bit more worldly than your average undergrad. I've been around the block a few times and the people here can attest to that. All I can say is, have fun looking for work after you graduate buddy. I sincerely hope you have better luck than a lot of the SIUE grads I know.

For what its worth, I did your survey. I'm not trying to say that you aren't working hard or your degree isn't valid or anything like that. I just know a lot of SIUE grads these days that are struggling to find work. The economy coupled with the fact that SIUE isn't known for really strong degree programs has really hurt their chances at earning a good career even several years after they graduate. These are good, intelligent people too, not some scrubs. I'm not trying to take away from your experience/hard work/what-have you.

Individuals use to be able to make a good living with a high school diploma. Now that has been replace with a college degree. As we move from an industrial nation to one that provides services, advanced degrees become necessary for many individuals to find successful employment. Fortunately, there are still union related jobs for many individuals that do not possess a higher education. However, advanced engineering degrees are also becoming pre-requisite for many of these jobs. I believe any job that an individual works hard at is a good job. When you receive a degree, you may not be able to attain the job that you initially planned for, but the more experience you manage to attain in a field, the more opportunities open up. I am fortunate. With a master’s degree in psychology, I will eventually be able to open a private practice.

'Psychology' is a polite name for 'manipulation and control of lower class individuals with mental problems'. Your job will most likely consist of prescribing incredibly outdated and ineffective pills to people who don't know any better (or otherwise don't have a choice). Unless you are one of the very few who are against the traditionalist manner. In that case, you have a lot of slack to pick up. 😛

AtmaWeapon wrote:I'm not filling it out on principle because this guy came here just to post the survey. Maybe if he were working on a masters in spam propagation or something but it's always bugged me when someone shows up all "I have to get X people to take it so I searched for "video game forum" on Google and signed up for 20 forums. I wish I could take results away 😡

I checked up on this thread and Mr. Bedwell yesterday (even so far as to read one of his papers) and it all appears legitimate. He may not be trying to cure cancer but he is contributing to increasing the pool of human knowledge. And it's video games!

I am a little disappointed that our guest choose to get a little patronizing with Anthony. One would think a post-grad a little more understanding of the disgruntled nature of under-grad banter.

-mercy

bigjoe wrote:'Psychology' is a polite name for 'manipulation and control of lower class individuals with mental problems'. Your job will most likely consist of prescribing incredibly outdated and ineffective pills to people who don't know any better (or otherwise don't have a choice). Unless you are one of the very few who are against the traditionalist manner. In that case, you have a lot of slack to pick up. 😛

Mercy, I did not mean to patronize Anthony. It was a bit unsetting to me that a student from SIUE would degrade the university that they are currently attending as well as the graduate programs of that university. Additionally, I know there are many individuals that post spam on forums such as this. If I was a long term member of this forum, I too would be cynical to posts similar to mine. Thank you for providing a brief explanation of data collection and why I would select a forum such as this for to collect the data for my study. In retrospect, I feel I probably should have addressed that issue.

One last thing, I have collected all of the data I need. I receive a lot of responses from this site and really appreciate everyone’s help. Thanks again.

dabedwe1 wrote:
It was a bit unsetting to me that a student from SIUE would degrade the university that they are currently attending as well as the graduate programs of that university.

Anthony's view seems a bit on the negative, because of his friends' post-grad experiences. Your's is more of a positive outlook. Just don't set your standards TOO high (2:55).

dabedwe1 wrote:However, when individuals receive therapy, they learn skills and develop coping mechanism that they are able to use when they face future life problems. Providing medications, in many cases, will provide an individual with short term relief. This may be good in the short term, but individuals may develop a tolerance to the medication, requiring them to increase their dosage in order for the medications to have the same effect. Over time the medications may not help the symptoms at all. Unfortunately, the individual then must continue to take the medications or go through a process of finding new medications to help deal with their mental illness as well as dependence. Additionally, mental illness affects all classes of individuals.

I typed that so it stays but I am saving the rest of what is fast becoming a rant for GB at a later time. I am currently recovering from a corneal abrasion and looking at the monitor for any length of time is full of pain. Don't I wish there were a pill I could take for this!

-m.

Mercy wrote:Sweetie, it sounds like your thong may be riding up. This is a forum with the title-draw of, wait for it..., video games.

MottZilla wrote:Are you sure this forum isn't a cult about end of the world games where we make hats and boots out of the corpses of our post apocalyptic world enemys? It seems more likely than a forum based around some old Nintendo games.

Distrust breeds further distrust. We have been getting so much spam that new postings are immediately suspect. Perhaps we are becoming too insular. And perhaps I am not just referring to AGN.

Meh, how happy is everyone that I can't manage any of my usually verbose postings right now?

-m.

Mercy wrote:Sweetie, it sounds like your thong may be riding up. This is a forum with the title-draw of, wait for it..., video games. Odds are in Mr. Bedwell's favour that most people who take the time to reply to his survey will have some interest in video games. With the gross audience the internet puts at our fingertips, it would silly of any researcher not to take advantage when apropos. If Mr. Bedwell chose to ingratiate himself into several gaming sites before posting his request, he would be more liable to bias his responses and restrict the size of his survey pool. In the end, this is not different than passing out flyers in the quad' or posting them on physical, public bulletin boards.

I checked up on this thread and Mr. Bedwell yesterday (even so far as to read one of his papers) and it all appears legitimate. He may not be trying to cure cancer but he is contributing to increasing the pool of human knowledge. And it's video games!

I am a little disappointed that our guest choose to get a little patronizing with Anthony. One would think a post-grad a little more understanding of the disgruntled nature of under-grad banter.

-mercy

Yes, it's a video game forum. But for someone that's supposedly got a vested interest in the psychology of gamers, this approach isn't a very good one. I'm no psych major, but I think we can find a middle ground with cultural anthropology.

Common qualities of gamers:

• Competitive - Gamers like to compare their performance to others.
• Territorial - Make a thread about how Genesis was superior to SNES and watch fur fly.
• Prideful - Braggadocio has been an element of gaming since the first game with a score.
• Cliquish - Gamers like to stick with people that have very similar interests. This comes from the not-so-distant era when gaming was an activity for losers.

The territorial gamer will let his guard down if he thinks there is some benefit to cooperation. I've seen plenty of forums ban surveys like yours on sight. I've seen others accept them only with mod approval *and* the promise of some benefit to a random participant; a common prize is some kind of forum trinket like an account upgrade the winner can show off (prideful/competitive!) On the other hand, if you're generally accepted as one of the "in" members, the solicitation might be ignored due to the benefit of keeping you as a member of the forum.

You, sir, signed up on October 1 and immediately posted this survey without taking any time to establish yourself as a potential valuable member of the community. "Hi, I'm a student can you take this survey?" is no way to approach a community of gamers. I'd eat my words if, while you were waiting on results, you had participated in a few other threads. However, this is the only thread in which you've posted, and your last activity was over a week ago. You solicited the community, took from it, then left without leaving anything in return. That violates all of the rules of our tight-knit gallery of rogues, and wouldn't sit well with many others.

Did you ever have a friend that would come over, drink a few beers, then go back home but never invite you over to his house? That's what you've been so far: that guy.

If you really wanted some results, you could have paid $10 for 2 domino's pizzas and parked your butt in front of a local used game store. 1 survey = 1 slice of pizza. That'd have been at least 15 willing participants in 10 minutes, without having to resort to the same sleazeball tactics used to peddle counterfeit nike shoes, ipods, viagra, and "online diplomas".

Get out. (Though it's a bit belated for that, isn't it?)

*edit*
And yes, I spent 6 days stewing over this response like a total loser. The kind of loser that's spent > 9 years on the same forum and seen it fall from hundreds of active members to tens. It's pretty heartbreaking to see a new member sign up then find out they're probably not interested in staying around. It's heartbreaking *and* disappointing to be chastised by forum staff for being upset that someone has signed up for the sole purpose of profiting from our eyeballs and mouse clicks with no desire to make the community more valuable.

Atma, I share your sentiment on the activity of this forum. At least I'm not the only one who feels that way. He might not stick around, but it generates conversation, and that's always nice. Its just too bad the only ones involved are the only ones that are ever involved these days.

It's hard to try and establish yourself at another forum when you've already spent so much time at another, even if you wanted to.

I love the story of how a High School Diploma used to be worth something. Then it was an Associates Degree; Now a Bachelor's Degree. It's hogwash. A HSD was never worth dick. It's all a scam. Pressuring employers to require HSDs is part of the government trying to pander out subpar education to the masses on heavy tax dollars while the price of private education sky-rockets and the middle class dissolves.

The banks just upped the game with degrees. Create the illusion that you HAVE to have a degree to
become anything (the American Dream remember, it has a higher cost now) and push up the cost of Secondary Education to the point where unless you're a rich-bitch-tool you have to go into debt to get your degree. Severe debt to anyone seeking a Masters. With some purely cosmetic bandaging of Scholarships and Grants.

Very few who push through all this to get a degree see a significant improvement in their prospects and most realize they just sold their soul for the bragging rights of being the most overqualified WalMart employee in their city.

The land of the free right? The capitalist creed. You Can Do ANYTHING! Till you realize very few ever escape the poverty they are born in and more are being shunted down every day.

Bad analogy time.

Getting a job/career is like a simple but punishing arcade game. When you push start, the game randomly decides whether you win. Things like a high school diploma, high grades, degrees, experience, etc. give you free tokens. Money and connections give you access to tokens as well. Every token you put in the machine increases the odds you'll get that job/career.

A high school diploma or a college degree is not a magic talisman that makes you qualified for a job. It's no secret that plenty of unemployable people have managed to get their high school diploma; social promotion and NCLB see to that. Degrees aren't necessarily much better; if you don't study seriously you'll retain practically nothing and be worth less than an enthusiastic high school graduate. The diploma and the degree simply mean you passed some minimum bar that every single person who has that qualification managed to pass, and makes no guarantees that you will continue to meet that bar.

That's why serious careers like medicine have constant licensing requirements. These people have to train constantly and *prove* they're not losing their edge or they lose their right to practice. I feel like many skilled labor positions should be that way; I'd be comfortable with a software engineering licensing program if it wasn't for the fact that we're still decades from settling on what software engineering really is. Anyway, I'm diverging.

My point is employers aren't super interested in figuring out what your minimum skillset is, and that's all that a degree really establishes. What they want to see is that you, too, think the degree is a piece of paper; they're generally looking for people that are passionate about their field and are capable far beyond their accumulated qualifications. To that end, a degree is useless.

On the other hand, pursuing high school diplomas and degrees can be helpful. My university had a very strong engineering program and a particularly well-known CS department for the region. This brought many great employers to career fairs. In addition to that, the university had a fantastic career center that did their best to *force* you to do internships/co-op rounds.

I interviewed with a company that doesn't hire people without a BS in CS. They were only there because of my university's reputation and connections. My grades interested them, but more interesting were the 2 years of experience I had from an internship and co-op rounds. I could discuss real projects I'd worked on and go more in-depth than the standard "let's see if you slept in CS 101" tech questions. My on-site interview happened to pair me with a team that works on something that was my hobby at the time. All of these factors added up to get me a great job that could be my career. But without the degree, I'd have lost all of these opportunities.

It's not worthless, it's a key that opens some doors. You need more than one key though. I do agree that it is disappointingly biased towards people that are already successful. I think the best thing that can be done about it is to quit voting for Red Team or Blue Team; in a two-party system nobody wins.

(It's also different for every career. A BS in CS is pretty standard and I can assert that 95% of my knowledge came from outside the classroom. But a BS in dentistry isn't going to get you very far, nor will a BS in some field of medicine lead to a position in surgery no matter how much self-learning you do. But I still hold that the degrees can be important so long as you don't believe having this or that degree/certification *entitles* you to a job.)

Thanks for needlessly reaffirming what degrees are "supposed" to do for people. Degrees are actually more like the "Work From Home" scams where you pay 200 dollars for a work-from-home job and they send you a list of companies who may or may not hire work-from-home positions.

Right now I am interviewing with companies that wouldn't have even glanced at my resume without a degree. It's definitely worth something, especially if you get a degree that requires more than just a pulse. (i.e. yes, a degree in political science will land you a job at Wal-Mart.)

If you don't want to get a scientific/skill oriented degree, learn a trade. In the next 30 years, there will be unbelievable demand for airplane mechanics and pilots. You should try that. Or be an electrician, plummer, or auto mechanic. Those things can't be outsourced.

You can't go wrong with air conditioning.

I have known known some engineering technicians who make half of what their engineer colleagues make because they don't have a degree. Some of these technicians have been building and diagnosing analog circuits for 15 years -- long enough to have the intuition to school some of the engineers about how to design a good power supply. Having the right degree opens doors.

Like many successful engineers, I've learned 90% of what I know outside of the classroom. But at least I know anyone else with a degree in Electrical Engineering -- even the lazy ones -- share the remaining 10% knowledge base with me and have put in the time and effort to learn the basics.

I know it is important for you
Work hard and show them the results.

The only thing I'm affirming is that the notion "get a degree; it'll get you a job" is incorrect. You should find your passion and pursue it. If you choose a job that can be your hobby and show up with evidence of your competence, your qualifications will elevate your worth.

Some fields don't have high demand; this can foul your efforts. Some fields are high-risk and require graduate-level degrees before employment. This is the kind of research that the thousands of disappointed BS psych majors don't do. Same with political science and a few other fields known to be popular because their BS is "easy". Here's a hint: if you're seeking an easy degree you aren't going after higher education for the right reasons.

I don't know your particular circumstances, but I assure you for many people a degree is what opened the door to their employment. For many others it's a boat anchor but my experience is those people don't tend to have a passion for the path they chose or an interest in appearing to be superior to their peers. That's not the impression you want to give at the interview table, ever.

*edit*
Actually, I want to elaborate a little bit. I kind of left an implication that easy majors don't lead to good career paths. I want to alter that.

The "getting my degree" part of college was a cake walk. It consisted of going to class, listening to what the professor said, doing my assignments, and occasionally asking for help. The only tough class I had was Physics III, and had I thrown myself at Physics I and II more it wouldn't have been as bad. I slept through many a class, played video games 12+ hours per day, and graduated with a good GPA.

That degree only made me eligible for my interview. It didn't get me the job. What got me the job was the hard parts of my education. Over 3 semesters of my co-op term, I was twice asked to learn a programming language and produce an application in 2-3 months. I bought books, read up, and sometimes spent 4-5 hours at home studying things I needed for the next day. No one ever asked me a question that I answered "I can't" unless I specifically knew they were asking me to do something impossible. If it meant I had to work extra, I did. Part of this work included 2 months I spent documenting what I had done so my successor could improve it; I took several phone calls and answered questions about it after I was officially done with the job. Same with a summer internship I took; they threw me at a project and asked me to produce an application in a language I'd never used with a 3-month deadline. I threw myself at it and while I think they didn't provide an excellent work environment I finished my job.

There's plenty of jokers who got the same degree I got and couldn't do the things I do daily. But those people didn't work a 96-hour week during The Great Rollout of '05 at my co-op position. They didn't cut their Christmas vacation short and drive 650 miles back to work to make The Great Rollout II. There's no honor in that stuff; I ultimately decided there's not a salary that could make me go through that again. But I did it when I was a co-op student because that company was the only feasible job opportunity I had at the time, and that kind of determination shows. The jokers didn't spend 2-6 hours per week reading articles about their career or endeavor to read at least 1 software engineering book per year. That's why I got hired. The degree just made my employer curious. If you want to be a joker who waves their degree around like a flag then have at it, but don't whine when the people who can show their work get the job you wanted.

I generally agree with what has been said about college degrees. Sure, they are nice, but they only show you know the minimum, or they show you know how to cram, and remember stuff. Either way, they don't guarantee you a job. I know people who have graduated and gotten degrees in Political Science, Philosophy, Psychology. None of them are the next Obama, Plato, or Freud. They work sales jobs, or work at a Deli in my one friend's case. However, my neighbor is a programmer who does work for Google, and Sun Micro Systems. He is a self taught programmer. He read books, man.

What I'm passionate about does not necessarily require a degree. Sure, it is one more thing that may look better, but really, I believe in showing qualification through your product. If you can't do that, with, or without a degree, then you need to ask yourself what you are doing.

Atma, if you don't mind me asking, what is it you do exactly?