Twilight Princess?

Orion wrote:Has anyone gone back to revisit this game since their first playthrough? What are your thoughts the second time around?

I remember being a bit underwhelmed, especially at the difficulty, when I first played this game on Wii. However, I eventually sold it and bought it for the GameCube, and after having played through it again, I find that the experience has been much better.

The Wii controls just seemed rushed and unnecessary, although I do from time to time miss the pointer aiming. The sword play was just awful though, and I'd never go back to the Wii version. In fact, it worries be about the new Wii Zelda, and I really hope theirs an option for traditional sword controls.

But I really came to appreciate just how beautiful the game is, all of the environments and dungeons are lovingly crafted, even if they are on the easy side. They all shine until you get to the Twilight dungeon, which was just weird. It really brought me back to a Zelda II/ALTTP mood, especially with the learning of skills, and all of the side-exploration bits you could do. There was a lot of extras to find, as well, and exploring the really deep caves with the lantern was practically orgasmic for me.

Really, I think it has ousted OoT and MM, and become my 2nd favorite Zelda game (2nd to ALTTP, of course).

I pretty much agree entirely with you. I HATED the tacked on Wii bullshit, and I too am nervous about the new Wii Zelda. I would not count on a controller option, since Nintendo is all about forcing "innovation" on its audience. It's sad really.

Honestly I never even finished it on Wii. I played, and beat it on Gamecube first. I think I've beaten it three times completely.

On Gamecube, I say it is definitely a good game, even if some of the design choices made it easy, and at times linear. Funny thing about linearity is every Zelda game is linear to a point. Even Zelda 1. Try getting through some of the later dungeons without the ladder. You can't even get to one of the dungeons without the raft. You also need the recorder to access a dungeon. Zelda 1 is currently the only game, IMO to make extensive use of items on the overworld, which in some ways requires you to do the dungeons in some order. Later games use story elements to dictate where you could go. Zelda 1 was just better, and more diligent about hiding its linearity.

Anyway, yeah, my biggest real complaints are the dungeon linearity; while you're actually in them, and those god-awful wolf segments. You can only have one key at a time? It really forces you on a set path. Oh, and I absolutely dreaded the wolf parts. I thought it was stupid from day one. It feels like a cry of "Look how DIFFERENT this game is!" and it ultimately felt unneeded, and bogged the pace down, especially in the beginning when you could not explore a new area without doing some stupid fetch quest, which felt like a cheap stab at making the game longer.

The only other issue I had was the easy bosses (though they were still fun, which is what really matters).

The game has the best overworld, and is packed with stuff to find. On the topic of second impressions, I never really realized how much stuff there was to find until I played it again. It is also the first 3D Zelda to really have expansive cave systems. Sure, OoT had those little rooms littered about, but no "real" cave system to wander into like AlttP.

In a lot of ways, TP is like AlttP, and for those reasons I really like it. However, it does some have rather large issues that keep it from being a truly top tier Zelda. I still like AlttP, OoT, MM, and TWW more, but as I said on another forum, "Fifth out of 16 games it not a bad ranking".

All in all, a great game, and a good Zelda-- Just not the best.

I first played this one on the Gamecube as well, but I plan on trying the Wii edition sometime soon to see how different it could be.

Now when I first played this, I was pretty impressed on the entire thing, and how the story progressed, how characters developed, and of course, somewhat surprised Ganondorf was behind it again (I was hoping for another one-time villain like Vaati). Even so, the game was a blast from start to end, with the graphics being really good eye candy for a Gamecube owner.

Even on my first playthrough though, I did admit that Nintendo kinda hashed the bosses a bit. Epic as the bosses were (Blizzeta, Stallord, and Argorock anyone?), they were a bit on the easy side and over too quick. As someone I heard said, they used the "Use the item you find in the dungeon" thing a bit too obvious.

Speaking of items, if there's one I loved it was the Double Clawshots...going all Spider Man everywhere was a blast, and I hope Nintendo may bring back this idea in the future.

My only other disappointment of the game was the lack of a Dark/Shadow Link fight, even though we did get a glimpse of him during one cutscene (of which freaked me the hell out and forces me to skip it every time thereafter). I would've loved to see a Dark Link fight with him utilizing some of Link's Hidden Skills from the game...or even using a Clawshot to drag Link over and kick him away like the cheap shot he can be.

Regardless, Twilight Princess is one of the better Zeldas I've played, and where I donned most of my username anyway. ^^

My first play through on the Wii was pretty awesome and I don't mind the waggle fest for the sword that much, they needed to better utilize the nunchuks motion sensing. Subsequent play throughs of the game left me meh as the bosses are incredibly easy as pie (while looking cool) and the dungeon items are usually under used. Getting Boss Keys is usually very simple after getting the dungeon item and reaching the boss door is also usually very simple (unlike Wind Waker where there would be a final challenge). I also hate the linearity of dungeons where you often only have 1 key at any time leaving no multiple choices to your approach, yeah you can rescue some of the monkeys in the first dungeon in any order but the end result is always the same.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Wolf parts either, but I think that was mostly because they were usually just collect-a-thons. I hated those vessels of light. So. Much.

Maybe it's just me, but the overworld was actually one of the biggest letdowns for me in Twilight Princess. I mean, yeah, I hated the wolf sections, too, and I'm not saying it was a bad game overall. It's just, by the time I finished exploring, I was just like, "Wait, that's it? That's the entire land of Hyrule? What the hell?" Personally, I preferred Windwaker's overworld. Yeah, I know, people hated the sailing, but I dunno, I honestly kind of enjoyed being out at sea, discovering new islands, etc. I dunno, it's weird, I know everyone else thought it was tedious.

rock_nog wrote:Maybe it's just me, but the overworld was actually one of the biggest letdowns for me in Twilight Princess. I mean, yeah, I hated the wolf sections, too, and I'm not saying it was a bad game overall. It's just, by the time I finished exploring, I was just like, "Wait, that's it? That's the entire land of Hyrule? What the hell?" Personally, I preferred Windwaker's overworld. Yeah, I know, people hated the sailing, but I dunno, I honestly kind of enjoyed being out at sea, discovering new islands, etc. I dunno, it's weird, I know everyone else thought it was tedious.

I agree with you on the Wind Waker's overworld. I personally loved sailing at sea. You never knew what came over the horizon.

Twilight Princess's overworld was good, but it did feel a little smaller for some reason.

The aspect of going to each new section, finding out what was there, and getting the clue from the fish was enjoyable. Once you had the map filled out though things got a bit tedious.
My main issue with TP's overworld was that, even though there were more areas to explore than in OoT, they were still linked at specific points. Like each one was its own little world with a few trapdoors leading to the adjacent areas. I really want to see a 3d Zelda with an overworld reminiscent of the original Zelda game. One where you can explore in all directions and pick your own route to the next dungeon. Or maybe just get lost in its vastness. I wouldn't even care if all the trees looked about the same like they did in LoZ. I just want the sense of exploration.

I didn't mind the sailing in WW one bit, and I thought it was beautiful, especially when the storms came rolling in. But the islands themselves, save for a few, didn't have much character on their own. It would have been perfect had there been at least a few more large islands, with more than one secret to explore.

I'd love another 3D Wind-waker style game, but they seem to have settled on that style for the handhelds, neither of which have excited me. Maybe with this new 3DS tomfoolery...

Cloral wrote:The aspect of going to each new section, finding out what was there, and getting the clue from the fish was enjoyable. Once you had the map filled out though things got a bit tedious.
My main issue with TP's overworld was that, even though there were more areas to explore than in OoT, they were still linked at specific points. Like each one was its own little world with a few trapdoors leading to the adjacent areas. I really want to see a 3d Zelda with an overworld reminiscent of the original Zelda game. One where you can explore in all directions and pick your own route to the next dungeon. Or maybe just get lost in its vastness. I wouldn't even care if all the trees looked about the same like they did in LoZ. I just want the sense of exploration.

I didn't mind the sailing either. I can see how it could become tedious, but I liked it.

I think that TP could have done more with Death Mountain, and that was the only area that disappointed me. I was hoping to go up all the way to the fiery parts. This thread makes me want to play it again, but I am not looking forward to the wolf parts.

EDIT: Did anyone else know you can use the hawkeye with the bow and arrow to make a sniper type thing? I had no idea o-o.

Yeah it was kinda the whole point in it :P

Yeah in TP the areas the dungeons reside in don't really let you get far into them like...

Death Mountain, you can't go to the volcano crater.
jungle, largely a cave system.
Zora/Hyrule lake/river, a large pool/river of nothing.
Desert, boring dull empty desert with random money chests.
Temple of Time, annoying music, linear puzzles and most useless dungeon item (outside of the dungeon and after completing the necessary story elements involving it).
Twilight realms, more boring then normal realm even if your human form (except for Zora/Hyrule lake/river).
The Twilight things that you have to kill to open portals, provide no challenge at all.

I must confess, the exploration was limited in Twilight Princess. The thing that upset me the most was the sheer number of hidden rupees. Usually in a Zelda game I struggle looking for heart containers/pieces, potions, weapons, etc. which are good rewards for finding that hidden cave or bombing that wall or something of that sort. I hated going through a huge long challenge...and I get a silver rupee (unfortunately my wallet is full...so they put it back?). Also on that note, the underground caves seemed obvious for the most part. Combat is easier than previous versions, but it makes Link look even more powerful than in previous versions. As for the Wii control, I got used to it, and so I really cannot complain to much. Although I am all for Zelda Wii 2 introducing a clever control scheme (if it works). As for Wolf Link, interesting, but yes those light parasites have made me... Nevermind.

Also the sailing in Wind Waker was a fun thing to do, but with all the side quests in WW I usually using the warping a lot.

I hated the caves, only the ones in walls had decent length, the rest are minuscule rooms.

I never really got into the Wii version. I just wasn't a fan of the wiimote waggling. It was pretty well done, just not my sort of thing. I got much further in the NGC version, but drifted off in the Desert dungeon place and never got back into it. Really should at some point.

It gets better after the dungeon in the desert.

I really want to play it again, but there's so many little things that make it awesome, just like there are so many little things that make it annoying. For instance, I loved the learning of skills, and the little mini-quests, like saving the carriage. And there are so many homages, from the Temple of Time dungeon (I may or may not have squealed a bit when it appeared, and sighed when I finished the temple in roughly a half hour), and the subtle nods to the path to the final palace in Zelda II with the moblins shooting arrows at you in those little paths between overworlds. Conversely, the rupees thing was damn annoying, especially when it would put it back in it's chest. Also, the fact that the game seemed to need to remind me that a blue rupee is worth 5 (really!? how novel!) every single time I reboot the game.

And WTF was with the shop that you can open up in castle town?

I think the rupee bug with it reminding you only affected the Wii? Also it does not put back yellow rupees found in a chest when your wallet is full :/ I also never noticed that Zelda 2 reference, kinda cool now that I can see the whole picture 😃

Darth Marsden wrote:I never really got into the Wii version. I just wasn't a fan of the wiimote waggling. It was pretty well done, just not my sort of thing. I got much further in the NGC version, but drifted off in the Desert dungeon place and never got back into it. Really should at some point.

Yeah, once you get to the later dungeons (beginning with the desert) you don't have to worry about any more tedious wolf fetch quests.

Orion wrote:I really want to play it again, but there's so many little things that make it awesome, just like there are so many little things that make it annoying. For instance, I loved the learning of skills, and the little mini-quests, like saving the carriage. And there are so many homages, from the Temple of Time dungeon (I may or may not have squealed a bit when it appeared, and sighed when I finished the temple in roughly a half hour), and the subtle nods to the path to the final palace in Zelda II with the moblins shooting arrows at you in those little paths between overworlds. Conversely, the rupees thing was damn annoying, especially when it would put it back in it's chest. Also, the fact that the game seemed to need to remind me that a blue rupee is worth 5 (really!? how novel!) every single time I reboot the game.

And WTF was with the shop that you can open up in castle town?

I feel the same about your first sentence. I really enjoyed the entire forest section of the game (but I just like forests anyway) and when you go "back in time" to the temple of time, it was purely awesome. The dungeon was very short though (possibly the shortest in the game) though, but I will admit, I did miss the boss key on my last play through since I disregarded that small room with the chest as something useless... like rupees ;-;

I hate the whole rupee thing, and yes, it does tell you every time on the GCN version as well. I hated putting back rupees, and being somewhat of a perfectionist with Zelda games, I can't stand to see a chest on the map. Grr. I know this goes contrary to what I said above, but I was in a hurry 😛

Oh, and the shop was more or less then end of a sidequest, and you can get the totally 1337 magic armor there, though the only place you'd really need it is in the Cave of Ordeals. Oh, and am I the only one who thinks the great fairy looks like the great fairies from AlttP? I mean with the green hair and all.

Sigh.. what I wish they'd do in a 3D Zelda is make a full fledged optional dungeon. That's be cool.

Anthus wrote:Oh, and the shop was more or less then end of a sidequest, and you can get the totally 1337 magic armor there,

It was pretty fucked up.

Screw you guys. Screw y'all. I could be doing my plethora of school projects, but you're making me play through TP again. For the ninth time. It's the best Zelda game by far. I managed to get through the Temple of Time in two days, and I might just finish it tonight. 😛

Pineconn wrote:Screw you guys. Screw y'all. I could be doing my plethora of school projects, but you're making me play through TP again. For the ninth time. It's the best Zelda game by far. I managed to get through the Temple of Time in two days, and I might just finish it tonight. 😛

I really wish the games after MM would have retained the ability to re-fight bosses. It could have easliy been put in TP story wise: There could have been some thing that Minda could use to allow Link to relive the boss or whatever. They don't really have to explain it at all. Just put a damn portal in there.

By the way, I was playing Zelda 1 again, speaking of replays, and I must say it too has a great amount of "Hidden rupee" caves. 😛