Let's discuss Metroid :)

You know what Nintendo could do to make me a fanboy for them again?

Make another Super Metroid.

2D Metroid games freakin' rock. I really wish Nintendo would stop having huge gaps between them. Like, how many years was it before we got Metroid Fusion? And I absolutely loved that game, and then they made Zero Mission, and I thought they had learned their lesson, but now we've got another 2D Metroid drought.

Revfan9 wrote:Make another Super Metroid.

The Metroid Prime games were alright, but they seemed to get progressively worse. Prime 1 was great, Echoes was alright, but I have no drive to finish Corruption.

I think the main reason for the current gap between Metroid games is partly due to Nintendo's "new" target audience. We'll probably see 50 more "Wii ___" games before we see another Metroid.

Ah, Metroid. I'm going through a Metroid fanboy stage right now. Here are my thoughts on them.

Metroid: There is absolutely nothig wrong with this game. I play it over and over (as zero suit Samus of course) and never get tired of it. Lots to explore, fun enemies, good music, it had everything.

Metroid II: my personal favorite. It was a little more linear, I'll give you that. But it's fun, and exciting. Expecially the Metroids. It's awesome seeing them grow more powerful, and having them suddenly jump out as the alarm goes off. Such an awesome game.

Super Metroid: My least favorite. Ya, you can kill me now. It's fun, I'll give you that. But something about it just doesn't feel right. Plus, in my opinion, they made it too big.

Metroid Fusion: It's linear. But it's fun, and unpredictable. It certainly had the best storyline. All those good plot twists. And despite it being linear, there's still lots of stuff to explore.

Metroid Zero Mission: Well, it's good, but it can't compare to the original. It has its betters and worses. Improvement: Graphics, Bosses, Storyline, more areas. Downgrades: Although the last level was fun, it really was anti-climatic. They ruined the feel of Kraid's Lair by removing the identical passages and secret tunnels. The game is more linear now, maybe too much.


Overall, I love the series. I'd love to see another 2D Metroid that's a sequal to Fusion. Maybe she could start turning into a Metroid and needs to find a vaccine. I don't know, just give me a sequal. The ending was too much of a drop-off.

Yeah the big problem with Zero Mission is that the game tries to tell you where to go next. I will often deliberately try to avoid those statues when I can, just because they are time-consuming.

Also, I never had much trouble with the size of Super Metroid. I loved it! Then again, this title was my entry into the series. For whatever reason, I had never even heard of the series until Super Metroid in 1994. (even though I was more than familiar with Zelda and Mario when they came out, and Metroid was pretty damn big at the time too.) In fact, I had no idea who Mother Brain was when she appeared in Captain N.

I fucking love Super Metroid. I love it more than most Zelda titles. It has such a beautiful spirit of exploration, and is so open-ended. I swear they intended people to sequence-break. And its ending—which I consider to be from the time you enter Tourian through the credits—is one of the best I've seen from its era.

I also really do enjoy the 3-D titles, but they could have done so much more. If they were 3rd-person, holy shit. Boom. Done. Sold. As it is, they still manage to be a terrific translation of the title to 3-space, though I think they are lacking in the secrets department. One thing I love so much about Super Metroid is the vast quantities of secret tunnels and things all over the fucking place. (Fusion has that, too.)

If the Prime games were in 3rd-person it would just be a pain in the ass. Either aiming your weapon would be difficult as hell, or they'd implement some cheap z-targeting system that would make the games too easy.

I actually think the game engine for Prime 3 was fine. The problem with it is how much it betrayed the Metroid franchise. It was too guided, I felt like I was going on the game through rails the whole time. While you'd expect this from a game like Half-Life, the entire point of Metroid is that you advance by exploring, not by being told "Okay, you're at point A, and you need to go to point B."

One thing I do like about Metroid 3 is the ship, since if you need to go back somewhere, you can just go to the nearest point where you can use your ship, then fly off to another Ship Point. This would have been a godsend in Echoes where the game is constantly force you to go on 2-3 hour treks across the map just to get a single fucking item you need. However, the potential is wasted in Corruption, since the areas are so much smaller that you'll rarely need the ship anyway :/

Also, I hated Corruption's ending. A bossfight that's way too easy (Since you get to have mega-weapons the whole time through), then an anti-climactic ending where Samus just gives a thumbs up and flies away.

Didn't like Valhalla either, since it's just a beginner's trap. You only need 2 (3?) to get through unless you're going for a 100% ending, and otherwise you have to go on a long, boring trek to find the other fucking powerpacksthingies.

I despise the way that for some enemies, you're forced to use Hypermode to beat them, and this just drains your health unnecessarily.

If the Prime games were in 3rd-person it would just be a pain in the ass. Either aiming your weapon would be difficult as hell, or they'd implement some cheap z-targeting system that would make the games too easy.

I never really "got into" the 2d games.

franpa wrote:They already have a lock-on system since Metroid Prime 1... Also, it depends on which game you played first out of the MP games, I started with MP2 and find it better then MP1 but there pretty close to the same thing, just more levels to me >.>" I'm not a metroid fanatic, I just enjoy the gameplay.

I never really "got into" the 2d games.

For some reason, I enjoy the 2D games I've played (Zero Mission, Fusion and a bot of RoS) more then the 3D games (Prime I). They're all good games, but there's something about a 2D plane that just 'fits' Metroid somehow.

All I want now is Metroid Dread. I know it's being worked on out there somewhere, dammit. Just announce the bugger and feel the fanboy love already.

Revfan9 wrote:Also, I hated Corruption's ending. A bossfight that's way too easy (Since you get to have mega-weapons the whole time through), then an anti-climactic ending where Samus just gives a thumbs up and flies away.

Didn't like Valhalla either, since it's just a beginner's trap. You only need 2 (3?) to get through unless you're going for a 100% ending, and otherwise you have to go on a long, boring trek to find the other fucking powerpacksthingies.

I despise the way that for some enemies, you're forced to use Hypermode to beat them, and this just drains your health unnecessarily.

You obviously never tried to beat the game on Hyper Mode difficulty. It took me 10 tries to beat Dark Samus on Hyper Mode difficulty, and I barely did it. It was hard as shit. The Aurora Unit itself wasn't bad, provided you spent the time to recover you health after DS left you with a sliver left, but it's detached head kicked the crap out of me. I was so worn out and tired from attempting to beat Dark Samus and the Aurora Unit, I don't even know if I'm going to try to do it again. I'm serious, my wrists hurt.

The Valhalla was awesome. I don't understand why you call it a beginners trap. Just like the Metroid labs on Elysia, the Valhalla is creepy as hell, and definitely has one of the best old-school Metroid feelings to it.

Once you play on higher difficulties, you realize how much you can abuse Hyper Mode and how easy it makes the game. Draining you life is no big deal once you see how much it can save your butt.

I loved the Prime games. Each one expanded one the gameplay of the last, while changing things up enough; the 3rd one really hit the mark in terms of the final chapter. Maybe things don't feel as big as the previous two Prime games, but Bryyo and Elysia are huge in the end.

I don't really know where Nintendo is gonna go next with Metroid. Metroid is one of their premiere franchises, but I don't think it's ever really been a huge seller. It's sold better in the US than in Japan I know. Why do you think there was such a big gap between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime/Metroid Fusion?

After playing Corruption, I now consider the Prime series to be a separate story arc (alternate timeline) due to the Aurora Unit and Ridley factor. The cliff hanger does make me curious though.

A eManga was published not too long after Zero Mission came out, one that is supposed to be canon... but there's an english version too out there somewhere... but not presented in a fancy way... just pages.

vegeta1215 wrote:You obviously never tried to beat the game on Hyper Mode difficulty. It took me 10 tries to beat Dark Samus on Hyper Mode difficulty, and I barely did it. It was hard as shit. The Aurora Unit itself wasn't bad, provided you spent the time to recover you health after DS left you with a sliver left, but it's detached head kicked the crap out of me. I was so worn out and tired from attempting to beat Dark Samus and the Aurora Unit, I don't even know if I'm going to try to do it again. I'm serious, my wrists hurt.

The Valhalla was awesome. I don't understand why you call it a beginners trap. Just like the Metroid labs on Elysia, the Valhalla is creepy as hell, and definitely has one of the best old-school Metroid feelings to it.

Once you play on higher difficulties, you realize how much you can abuse Hyper Mode and how easy it makes the game. Draining you life is no big deal once you see how much it can save your butt.

I tried to play on the higher difficulties, but it just seemed pretty pointless to me. It was the exact same boring game. I'm not the superhardcore type of gamer. I can't say I just put it down and said "No, I'm not going to go through with this anymore", but I sortof just drifted away from it, as well as gaming in general.

While we're on the topic of 3D games, so far I've only played Hunters (100% beaten) and Corruption (on Elysia). I do agree, parts of it seem a little too simple. Do this, then that, then this. But it's still awesome. Especially the Meta-Ridley battle. Pure awesome.

Personally, I think Corruption didn't use Hyper Mode to it's full potential though. They could have made a "Hyper Visor", or something of the sort, that activates Hyper Mode, but reveals secret passages that don't even show up normally.

the manga in question covered Samus's origins, and her time raised on Zebes. The moment where she first meets ridley is kinda awkward and funny.

vegeta1215 wrote:
I don't really know where Nintendo is gonna go next with Metroid. Metroid is one of their premiere franchises, but I don't think it's ever really been a huge seller. It's sold better in the US than in Japan I know. Why do you think there was such a big gap between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime/Metroid Fusion?

Because the creator DIED! Hmmm maybe that could be why there was a big gap. For some reason dead people don't work on video games. I'm not sure why. I think Gunpei Yokoi would hate the direction that Metroid Prime took. It sucks donkey balls. Super Metroid is absolutely the best Metroid game and shows what the series is about. I really think they did a horrible job trying to bring Metroid into 3D the way they did. It's about as much of a Metroid game as Sonic Adventure was a Sonic the Hedgehog game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpei_Yokoi

MottZilla wrote:Because the creator DIED! Hmmm maybe that could be why there was a big gap. For some reason dead people don't work on video games. I'm not sure why. I think Gunpei Yokoi would hate the direction that Metroid Prime took. It sucks donkey balls. Super Metroid is absolutely the best Metroid game and shows what the series is about. I really think they did a horrible job trying to bring Metroid into 3D the way they did. It's about as much of a Metroid game as Sonic Adventure was a Sonic the Hedgehog game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpei_Yokoi

yeah the 3D view isn't a favorite of mine, nor is the idea of limited beam ammunition (NO.) But just because Yokoi has passed doesn't mean the series should pass with him. I hope the 2D games can pick up the slack. Otherwise, 20 years from now we're gonna have all these snot-nosed middle school kids burying Super Metroid underneath all the "Zelda for preschoolers" titles and Halo games.

yeah the 3D view isn't a favorite of mine, nor is the idea of limited beam ammunition (NO.)

MottZilla wrote:Because the creator DIED! Hmmm maybe that could be why there was a big gap. For some reason dead people don't work on video games. I'm not sure why. I think Gunpei Yokoi would hate the direction that Metroid Prime took. It sucks donkey balls. Super Metroid is absolutely the best Metroid game and shows what the series is about. I really think they did a horrible job trying to bring Metroid into 3D the way they did. It's about as much of a Metroid game as Sonic Adventure was a Sonic the Hedgehog game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpei_Yokoi

I forgot about that.

No doubt Gunpei's death played a part in the big gap between Super Metroid and Prime/Fusion - it's likely Nintendo would want to show some respect by not releasing a Metroid game at the same time as his death. But I also remember reading about Nintendo attempting to make a 3D Metroid for the N64 and that the ideas weren't working and the technology just wasn't there yet.

I understand how you prefer 2D Metroids to the 3D ones, but comparing the Prime series to the abomination that is 3D Sonic is going too far. Sonic is about speed, and none of the 3D Sonics, save for maybe Sonic Heroes (which isn't half bad), come close to matching what Sonic is about. The exploration aspect of the Prime games is not as strong as Super Metroid, but it's still there, and it's still creepy to play. There is always something lost when moving from 2D to 3D, but I think Retro did an excellent job with Metroid. Yeah the story is screwy and creates some plot holes with the original trilogy, but that's why I consider the Prime series to be separate from the original series.

Old-skool, I agree the series should continue but it should be like Fusion and Zero Mission, not Prime. I thought both Fusion and Zero Mission were worthy titles.

vegeta, I think his death was not the reason. The reason I think was Nintendo basically ditched him after the Virtual Boy failed. If you don't know, after the VB failure, he was back seated. That's where you aren't fired but at the same time you are not allowed to do anything. So he left Nintendo and joined Bandai and created the Wonderswan.

So he was already gone from Nintendo before his death. Some people point out that perhaps he would not have died in the car wreck had Nintendo not punished him for the VB failure or if VB hadn't failed or never been attempted.

I don't think Retro did a bad job making a game. I just don't think it is truely Metroid. Really you could swap everything out with some other faces and call it whatever and no one would really notice that much. Atleast I think so. Bear in mind I played Prime 1 totally, and only some of Prime 2.

MottZilla wrote:Because the creator DIED! Hmmm maybe that could be why there was a big gap. For some reason dead people don't work on video games. I'm not sure why.

MottZilla wrote:vegeta, I think his death was not the reason. The reason I think was Nintendo basically ditched him after the Virtual Boy failed. If you don't know, after the VB failure, he was back seated.

So... which is it? lol

I think Metroid Prime is the best move to 3D for any game franchise I've played. I know you'd rather Metroid have never gone 3D, but if you really think Retro they did a horrible job bring it to 3D, (regardless of whether it was well made and polished) I'm curious to hear what you might've done differently in Prime. Would you have made it in a 3rd person perspective?

Old-skool, I agree the series should continue but it should be like Fusion and Zero Mission, not Prime. I thought both Fusion and Zero Mission were worthy titles.

That's exactly what I just said.

So he was already gone from Nintendo before his death. Some people point out that perhaps he would not have died in the car wreck had Nintendo not punished him for the VB failure or if VB hadn't failed or never been attempted.

Yokoi was hit by a passing vehicle, while outside of the car.

did he get embedded into the passing vehicle? 😉 I never really got into Super metroid or the NES game, so there's no nostalgic factor for me! I just find the Prime games to offer an awesome gameplay experience, I couldn't care less that everything in it is about metroid.

franpa wrote:did he get embedded into the passing vehicle? 😉 I never really got into Super metroid or the NES game, so there's no nostalgic factor for me! I just find the Prime games to offer an awesome gameplay experience, I couldn't care less that everything in it is about metroid.

If I remember right, I knew about the 3D games before the 2D ones. My first Metroid game was Prime Hunters, which was pretty fun. The next one I did was the original (about two months ago), which is one of my favorites. I think it's better then Zero Mission. More exploring. No anti-climatic levels (although the ZM end level was fun). Better graphics and music (in my opinion. I like old.) The only thing Zero Mission did a lot better was the bosses, and the extra areas.

vegeta1215 wrote:
I think Metroid Prime is the best move to 3D for any game franchise I've played. I know you'd rather Metroid have never gone 3D, but if you really think Retro they did a horrible job bring it to 3D, (regardless of whether it was well made and polished) I'm curious to hear what you might've done differently in Prime. Would you have made it in a 3rd person perspective?

I don't think you got what I was saying. I don't think Metroid Prime is a bad game by any means. It seemed well polished and all, it's just that it doesn't really feel like Metroid which is a favorite series for me so I have extremely high expectations for it. Metroid Prime was a good game, but it just seemed to ultimately not have the same appeal. I do think you are right that it's one of the best 2D to 3D transitions in that the end game isn't a bad game really. Personally I'd prefer if they wanted 3D graphics that they had gone the Mega Man Maverick Hunter X or Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles route of "2.5D". I just don't think Metroid is very much like Metroid when you take away 2D platforming.

So the Prime games I don't think they are bad. I just don't think they have the spirit of the rest of the Metroid games.

I found this the other day and thought it was a neat little read. The video has some clips of what Nintendo was doing with Metroid Prime before they handed it over to Retro Studios: http://www.kombo.com/article.php?artid=12409

Nice, so Nintendo is planning on re-releasing Metroid Prime for the Wii with Wii controls? I might have to get that.