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Hippocratic Oath gets the religious shaft

72 replies · 11,010 views · Started 03 December 2008

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-conscience2-2008dec02,0,7013690.story

Reporting from Washington -- The outgoing Bush administration is planning to announce a broad new "right of conscience" rule permitting medical facilities, doctors, nurses, pharmacists and other healthcare workers to refuse to participate in any procedure they find morally objectionable, including abortion and possibly even artificial insemination and birth control.

For more than 30 years, federal law has dictated that doctors and nurses may refuse to perform abortions. The new rule would go further by making clear that healthcare workers also may refuse to provide information or advice to patients who might want an abortion.

It also seeks to cover more employees. For example, in addition to a surgeon and a nurse in an operating room, the rule would extend to "an employee whose task it is to clean the instruments," the draft rule said.

The "conscience" rule could set the stage for an abortion controversy in the early months of Barack Obama's administration.

During the campaign, President-elect Obama sought to find a middle ground on the issue. He said there is a "moral dimension to abortion" that cannot be ignored, but he also promised to protect the rights of women who seek abortion.

While the rule could eventually be overturned by the new administration, the process might open a wound that could take months of wrangling to close again.

Health and Human Services Department officials said the rule would apply to "any entity" that receives federal funds. It estimated 584,000 entities could be covered, including 4,800 hospitals, 234,000 doctor's offices and 58,000 pharmacies.

Proponents, including the Christian Medical Assn. and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, say the rule is not limited to abortion. It will protect doctors who do not wish to prescribe birth control or to provide artificial insemination, said Dr. David Stevens, president of CMA.

"The real battle line is the morning-after pill," he said. "This prevents the embryo from implanting. This involves moral complicity. Doctors should not be required to dispense a medication they have a moral objection to."

Critics of the rule say it will sacrifice patients' health to the religious beliefs of providers.

The American Medical Assn. and the American Hospital Assn. in October urged HHS to drop the regulation. The Planned Parenthood Foundation and other backers of abortion rights condemned the rule as a last-gasp effort by the Bush administration to please social conservatives.

"It's unconscionable that the Bush administration, while promising a smooth transition, would take a final opportunity to politicize women's health," said Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood.

Despite the controversy, HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt said he intends to issue the rule as a final regulation before the Obama administration takes office, to protect the moral conscience of persons in the healthcare industry. Abortion-rights advocates are just as insistent that the rights of a patient come first.

If the regulation is issued before Dec. 20, it will be final when the new administration takes office, HHS officials say. Overturning it would require publishing a proposed new rule for public comment and then waiting months to accept comments before drafting a final rule.

Abortion-rights advocates think it might be easier to get Congress to reject the rule. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), before being nominated Monday for secretary of State, and Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) have said they would move to reverse it.

The HHS proposal has set off a sharp debate about medical ethics and the duties of healthcare workers.

Last year, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology said a "patient's well-being must be paramount" when a conflict arises over a medical professional's beliefs.

In calling for limits on �conscientious refusals,� ACOG cited four recent examples. In Texas, a pharmacist rejected a rape victim's prescription for emergency contraception. In Virginia, a 42-year-old mother of two became pregnant after being refused emergency contraception. In California, a physician refused to perform artificial insemination for a lesbian couple. (In August, the California Supreme Court ruled that this refusal amounted to illegal discrimination based on sexual orientation.) And in Nebraska, a 19-year-old with a life-threatening embolism was refused an early abortion at a religiously affiliated hospital.

"Although respect for conscience is important, conscientious refusals should be limited if they constitute an imposition of religious or moral beliefs on patients [or] negatively affect a patient's health," ACOG's Committee on Ethics said. It also said physicians have a "duty to refer patients in a timely manner to other providers if they do not feel that they can in conscience provide the standard reproductive services that patients request."

Leavitt said ACOG threatened to brand as "unprofessional" those who do not share its attitudes toward abortion. In August, he criticized "the development of an environment in the healthcare field that is intolerant of individual conscience, certain religious beliefs, ethnic and cultural traditions and moral convictions."

In its announcement, HHS said the proposed rule was needed because of an attitude "that healthcare professionals should be required to provide or assist in the provision of medicine or procedures to which they object, or else risk being subjected to discrimination."

In a media briefing, Leavitt said the rule was focused on abortion, not contraception. But others said its broad language goes beyond abortion.

Since the 1970s, Congress has said no person may be compelled to perform or assist in performing an abortion or sterilization. One law says no person may be required to assist in a "health service program or research activity" that is "contrary to his religious beliefs or moral convictions." The HHS rule says that law should be enforced "broadly" to cover any "activity related in any way to providing medicine, healthcare or any other service related to health or welfare."

Judith Waxman, a lawyer for the National Women's Law Center, said Leavitt's office has extended the law far beyond what was understood. "This goes way beyond abortion," she said. It could reach disputes over contraception, sperm donations and end-of-life care.

"This kind of rule could wreak havoc in a hospital if any employee can declare they are not willing to do certain parts of their job," she said.

I"m speechless. There's just no words for the amount of contempt I feel for the outgoing administration at this point. We're a first world country with the best medical care in the world, why in the world would you hamstring it like that?

This is going to sound weird coming from an atheist, but I'm pro life and I support this bill. To many, the practice of abortion is a holocaust. They should be free to pursue productive careers in medicine without having to participate in something they view as inherently evil and sick.

Speaking of the Hippocratic Oath, why doesn't "Do No Harm" include babies?

I can see this causing problems further down the road. Especially in small rural towns that only have one doctor. If that doctor happens to be pro-life to the point that he or she refuses to prescribe birth control pills, there could be a spike in teen pregnancies and with the option of refusal of abortion theres going to be a large increase in kids being brought up in broken families. And kids who grow up in broken families tend more to become delinquents. Thus, because of this, there is potential for the crime rate to rise.

This is bullshit. How fair is it that the fairy-tale ethics and morals of some doctors get to dictate the rest of someone's life? Well, I guess it is easy for these conservatives to feel good about something used to please people since they aren't the ones who have to deal with the unwanted pregnancy. It is always easy to play the good guy at someone else's expense. Go retarded Palin babies :thumbsup:

In my own opinion, if you have morals that prevent you from doing your job, then don't go into that field.

And I can also see this backfire horribly. Suppose there's this guy named Bill who lives in a small rural town. Bill needs his gallbladder taken out as soon as possible, or else it'll rupture and he'll die. So Bill goes to the only hospital in the area. The doctor happens to be Catholic. Bill is gay. If this "Right of Conscience" rule were to pass, the doctor has the right to refuse an operation on Bill because the doctor believes that homosexuality is wrong. Bill dies.

Essentially, this rule would make discrimination of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, ect., okay.

Ya know, I was going to say "Yoshiman, thats not how it works, it's only if the practice itself is objectionable",
but then I looked back over the article and thought: if the doctor says "well, saving his life will help spread homosexuality, somthing I'm against", the doctor may very well be able to argue the case. He'll lose, terribly, but he can still argue it. And Bill is still dead.

Not only can you refuse abortions, but contraceptives too? Sounds like a vicious little cycle to me.

This is what I don't get. The same people who want to give women the right to choose want to take away a doctor's right to choose. Why shouldn't the doctor be able to refuse that information?

And I can also see this backfire horribly. Suppose there's this guy named Bill who lives in a small rural town. Bill needs his gallbladder taken out as soon as possible, or else it'll rupture and he'll die. So Bill goes to the only hospital in the area. The doctor happens to be Catholic. Bill is gay. If this "Right of Conscience" rule were to pass, the doctor has the right to refuse an operation on Bill because the doctor believes that homosexuality is wrong. Bill dies.

I see your point here. This bill needs to be very specific about what it deals with and what it doesn't. Although I'd like to point out that Catholics believe that life is valuable no matter what, and even want to do away with the detah sentence, so your scenario falls apart. Just wanted to point that out.😊

phattonez wrote:Not telling doctors what to do at all.

So you don't mind if your doctor decides to cut your ears off and sow them to your balls? Because hey, can't tell the Doctors what to do!

Regulations are important in the medical field. Forcing a christian nurse to help inform someone about how to kill their child is not a good regulation, however.

russadwan wrote:This is what I don't get. The same people who want to give women the right to choose want to take away a doctor's right to choose. Why shouldn't the doctor be able to refuse that information?

Doctors are legally and morally bound to provide ALL information to a patient in order to help that patient reach a decision on their health. As a doctor they are entrusted to help people. They can't go about denying someone information just because they don't agree with it. It is NOT their body. They are sought out to heal the body, and help people make healthy choices based on their recommendations. RECOMMENDATIONS BASED SOLELY ON MEDICAL GROUNDS NOT RELIGIOUS ONES.

They don't have to agree with a treatment, but they can't not tell someone about it. A doctor that withholds vital information about chemotherapy from a cancer patient because he "morally objected" to it would be tossed out on his ear and most likely face various lawsuits.

You know what, if you are doctor that doesn't like abortions, nothing says YOU have to be the one doing it. You do, however, HAVE to provide information on where a person can go to get one. To not provide this information goes against everything doctors have fought to bring about.

I personally am not a fan of abortion, in fact I suppose I am pro-life to the extent that I oppose it (even though I usually vote Democratic and am atheist). However, I really don't see the point in refusing to give contraceptives. I think that's much more problematic than refusing to perform an abortion.

Many people consider contraceptives to be equivalent to abortions. That, and there's the whole "sex without the intent of procreation, even for a married couple, is a sin."

Frankly, I think this is idiotic. It serves no legitimate purpose; doctors generally aren't asked to perform procedures they have moral objections to anyway. You don't want to perform abortions? That's easy, just don't work at an abortion clinic. How flippin' hard is that? It's just a red herring whose sole purpose is to stir up controversy, and as such, this whole business pisses me off.

Beldaran wrote:So you don't mind if your doctor decides to cut your ears off and sow them to your balls? Because hey, can't tell the Doctors what to do!

Seriously? You know what I mean. As long as they're not harming the patient, what's the problem?

Of course, if I took this more seriously, which I don't, I would raise the objection that hospitals are private institutions and should be allowed to deal with their staff in the manner they see fit. If you need a person to perform certain duties, and the person you hired refuses to perform those duties, why should you be forced to hire a second person, rather than simply replace the first one?

Then, too, this goes beyond abortions and birth control. People forget that some religions object to blood transfusions, and what about transplants - the organs must be removed while the donor is on life support.

But once again, the reality of it is, I fail to see how this is even an issue, because someone with moral objections to a certain procedure almost certainly wouldn't be in any position where they may be required to perform the procedure anyway.

This goes further than allowing doctors to act in accordance with their beliefs. This would allow doctors to impose their beliefs on their patients. It's one thing for doctors to refuse to perform procedures they consider unconscionable, but not letting patients to make informed decisions regarding their health is entirely another.

Why is this even a question?

When you become a doctor, you go into it full knowing that your entire career will be full of hard decisions and conflicts. As previously said, it's not like it's anywhere close to hard to just get into a field where you won't have to deal with this sort of thing. Don't want to perform abortions? Don't work at an abortion clinic.

The entire thing is just another way for one political party to undermine the other. It's times like this that make me almost embarassed to admit that I'm a conservative.

Saffith wrote:This would allow doctors to impose their beliefs on their patients. It's one thing for doctors to refuse to perform procedures they consider unconscionable, but not letting patients to make informed decisions regarding their health is entirely another.

this already happens

It should not be a right of the doctor/pharmacist/etc... to refuse anyone who's been raped... any form of help to make sure she doesn't get pregnant from said rape.

I, too, am appalled over this issue.

Breaker wrote:This already happens

Right, but now they're protected by the law.

Prrkitty wrote:It should not be a right of the doctor/pharmacist/etc... to refuse anyone who's been raped... any form of help to make sure she doesn't get pregnant from said rape.

QFFT.

Look, I oppose abortions. I really do. You should not just decide "oh hey, I think I'd rather not have this kid now, 4-6 months AFTER I get pregnant". But on the other hand, if something happens that makes it incredibly harmful to everyone if you keep the kid, then fine. And rape? In that case, there is no debate in my mind. If you want to keepte kid, fine. But if you don't, I don't see how you should be held morally responsible. It wasn't your choice to get pregnant, so you should have the choice to avoid the outcome.

Now, the REAL issue I have here is the contraceptives. You can't just deny that to people. I'm against meaningless sex (as in you do it just because you feel bored), but as long as it's part of a very close relationship/marriage, then I don't see the problem! In fact, we need to MASS PRODUCE this stuff now, and stop the earth's population from increasing further and eventually causing a final collapse!

You should not tell doctors that they dont' NEED to heal people if it goeas agaisnt their beliefs. If this goes farther, then yo umight have a situation like this:

Bobby is *insert religion here*, and has been shot in a freak accident.
Jonny is *insert other religion here* and thinks that all other religions are evil. Thus, he refuses to save Bobby, becasue he feels he would be helping evil.

Ugh...Personal opinions should NOT be mixed into life saving jobs. It's like giving the fireman a choice between saving the muslim mother of 3, or letting her die, because he hates muslims.

I resent the implication that any sex is meaningless. Surely the pleasure derived from it is meaning enough.

...What I meant is I'm against people deciding to have random sex with anyone in particular just for kicks. It's a serious thing, in my mind.

Aegix Drakan wrote:...What I meant is I'm against people deciding to have random sex with anyone in particular just for kicks. It's a serious thing, in my mind.

I'm against people thinking sex must always be a serious thing, it ruins otherwise fun flings.

Sex in a relationship sucks because you are chained in a relationship. Sex outside = perfect. Now I wouldn't do it with just any random person, so I agree with you there, but I also don't want a romantic relationship. Friends who are chill and don't have AIDS/herpes/etc are ideal.

Back to the actual topic...

I guess you could say I know the "reasoning" that some religious don't believe in using contraceptives, but I really don't see that as equivalent to abortion. It's like saying a conscious choice not to a conceive a child today = abortion. So everyday you don't decide to get pregnant, you are preventing the formation of a life and thus practicing abortion! IMHO religious should be advocating the use of contraceptives, since it actually prevents the emergence of a fetus and thus abortion.

Beldaran wrote:Speaking of the Hippocratic Oath, why doesn't "Do No Harm" include babies?

Beldaran wrote:... Forcing a christian nurse to help inform someone about how to kill their child is not a good regulation, however.

Come on, Bel. These aren't babies or children we're talking about here, these are fetuses. Now, I recognize the fact that this is most certainly a prime example of a slipperly slope, and that thirty seconds before labor, a fetus is basically a baby, and this is even the case further back as well, but what about really early-term abortion? Like, when the sex of the "child" isn't even distinguishable yet? This is no more a person than a human kidney is. Yes, if you wait long enough, it will turn into a human, but at the earlier stages it is really just tissue growing inside the uterus.

Aegix Drakan wrote:...What I meant is I'm against people deciding to have random sex with anyone in particular just for kicks. It's a serious thing, in my mind.

So you have no problems with legislating your own twisted morality on those with different morals than you.

Icey, if the religious groups opposed to contraceptives followed that logic, we wouldn't have "abstinence only" education. You've got two major problems - the stigma about accepting sex, and the rampant misinformation out there regarding contraceptives.

What I've never understood is their complete lack of concern about the ethical implications of lying to further their cause. Of course, being an atheist, I'm prone to make a quip about how when you're selling fairy stories as fact, lying probably comes naturally. But no, I'll restrain myself and assume that they further their beliefs out of good intentions.

But the point is - they lie about the effectiveness of condoms, about the risks of STDs... They lie about how birth control pills work - claiming that birth control pills cause women to spontaneously abort, when in fact they simply prevent the egg from being fertilized in the first place. I just simply don't understand it. Why (assuming they are generally well-intentioned) do religious groups spread deliberate misinformation, and how can they possibly justify lying for God?

Modus Ponens wrote:These aren't babies or children we're talking about here, these are fetuses.

I don't believe that a vagina is so magical that being on one side makes you a fetus and being on the other makes you a person. [shrug]

Modus Ponens wrote: but what about really early-term abortion? Like, when the sex of the "child" isn't even distinguishable yet? This is no more a person than a human kidney is.

Your body being at a certain level of development does not determine your humanity.

I could make the argument that a 1 year old child cannot survive on its own, is not fully developed, and doesn't even have a moral sense of its own existence. We find it gross to kill 1 year old children. I find it gross to kill 1 month old children.

Modus Ponens wrote:This is no more a person than a human kidney is.

This is just untrue. A kidney is a machine that filters urine. A fetus is a developing human being at a certain point in its genetic replication process which will eventually go on to become an adult. This definition fits a 1 year old child too.

People are welcome to make the argument that they don't have a problem killing undeveloped human beings. Heck, many people don't have a problem killing developed human beings. However, to assuage one's conscience with the idea that a very young person is not a person is intellectually dishonest, in my opinion.