[887] ZC gets confused where you hit the enemy

I'm almost positive this was a "bug" in the original game.

I love exploiting it in quests with lots of darknuts.

I actually wrote a guide on darknuts back in the day, and this was one of the key items. It works wonderfully with the wand as well. 😊

But seeing as the Dodongo "Chin/Forehead Duplication Bomb Bug" was removed, maybe this one will be too. 😞 Maaan. These bugs rawked. > <,

You mean stunning the dodongo with a bomb, then killing it with the sword? That shouldn't have been removed. I'll check the code tonight.

Really? I don't remember this bug, but I'll believe you guys.

No really. If you let the bomb explode on the Dodongo's chin or forehead (When going horizontally.) or either side of his face (When vertical.) the dodongo would die and drop four bombs 100% of the time. (Or, if done with a super bomb, another super bomb to replace the one you used.)

Either that, or said bomb would stun him, and then you'd slash him to kill it for the bombs. Either way.

or said bomb would stun him, and then you'd slash him to kill it for the bombs

In closing: not a bug!

(Referring to both of you.)

Ok guys, I know I'm pretty late to this one.. hope you don't frown on replies to old "exterminated bugs", it still exists as of 980. Anyways...

This issue was bothering me and so I did some searching for this exact problem (the darknut flip stab exploit, not the dodongo thing). After reading people say it's not a bug I was confused as I don't remember this trick. So I dusted off my old NES and zelda cart, walked over to level 3 and tried it out. Flip stabbing a darknut's shield had no effect, not moving or damaging the darknut. Were there different versions of zelda floating around? Somehow you guys played it the way it is now? I tried it again on the rom and ZC v846 and got the same results aswell. CaRmAgE explained it pretty well, but we are talking about the same thing right?

I'm guessing it's an intentional feature, just not sure why it's defaulted on with no rule I can find to turn it off. Will there be a way to disable this?

While I find it fun to fight darknuts this way (seems required in Alphadawg's official 3rd quest), I feel it should be up to the quest designer whether they want few darknuts that are harder to kill vs many easy to kill.
If a quest designer decides to put a ridiculous amount of darknuts in every room and expects you not to flip stab, thats a design flaw on his/her part and ZC shouldn't force the rest of us to have it that way.

This issue has been particularly bothering me as I design for the official 4th quest compo, as I would like to design for the way I played on the NES.

Suggestion (and personal preference for purist style quests): if people have been designing their quests with this exploit in mind.. old quests could enable the exploit while new ones disable by default. If you want to be insane I guess it could be an enemy flag "allow flip stab" instead of a quest rule.

As far as the dodongo exploit, defaulted on as a compat rule sounds good to me.

So I hope there will be a rule to toggle on/off (and check it out on your NES for defaulting purposes)
I Love ZC.. thanks guys!

I don't know about the sword thing (awesome though it may be), but the Dodongo thing is not a bug, nor is it a compatibility thing. That's how Dodongos work! Remember this line?

"DODONGO DISLIKES SMOKE"

If you stun a Dodongo by exploding a bomb (or super bomb) in its face (i.e. smoking it), then he becomes weak to the sword, at which point you get more bombs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5KUnf2G7Gk

Look at 5:00 in the video, he does exactly that.

Yea, I always assumed "DODONGO DISLIKES SMOKE" was just to tell us to use bombs against dodongo, but I guess its more likely they intentionally did the stun thing (it would be a freaky strange bug to have him get stunned AND always give a bomb).

My major problem was the sword/wand flipping darknut. I can't reproduce this behavior in the original.

WELL THEN, LET'S TRY A ROM.

...

Tomorrow, since it's 3 AM. Well, LATER TODAY, actually... 12 hours from now.

It makes attacking darknuts easy for you and saves you a lot of headaches! For me, I dread killing darknuts!

I just checked the ROM. Darknuts don't flip when you hit their fronts with the sword. If it can be done, it's WAY harder in the original game than in Zelda Classic. I only checked with the Wooden Sword and not the Wand, but yeah, there's definitely an issue here.

I wasn't talking about the Darknuts "flipping" when I made this thread. I was talking about Link "flipping" in mid-swing. This bug has already been proved bogus (as far as NES consistency goes, anyway).

When Link "flips" midswing (which he can do), the Darknuts in the NES just ignore it and don't take damage. No way I switch directions in the NES version mid-swing damages Darknuts (facing toward them, hitting them as I face away or starting by facing away and flipping to face toward; neither work). I don't think it was really proved bogus; I think this is an old legend that somehow crept into Zelda Classic. Either that or it's some ridiculous frame perfect thing in the original game, but it's really easy to do in Zelda Classic. This is actually a really huge issue since real Darknuts are radically harder to fight than Zelda Classic Darknuts.

I was talking about Link flipping midswing the whole time, to be clear. It just seems like the Darknuts being "flipped" over you in the sense you are flipping a pancake if you throw it up into the air with a spatula. It's a shame the word "flip" has two meanings here.

The way you described it in your original post is exactly how I would describe the issue... same as AmazingAmpharos is saying.

Seems like it could just be a simple directional stabbing bug (flipping makes the darknuts think your behind them) that people got used to, but it's not in the zelda I own.

I just hope it's not some intentionally forced feature to combat darknut-abuse quests. I enjoy the challenge of fighting darknuts if the dungeons are designed properly and with the right amount of balance.

Will there be a fix/toggle option somewhere?

there will likely be a quest rule or enemy rule for future quests to take advantage of.

We'll figure out a way to address this in the near-future. I think this feature came about because the behavior is possible on the NES when you use the wand (of that I'm 100% sure of).

I think you should enable all nes bugs to exist as they originally did and allow them to be corrected with quest rules.

That's the goal Archangel.