I'm sorry, I just trust the word of medical professionals over family members. I know that's what the family says, but the actual medical ruling was that she was diagnoses with persistent vegetative state. The doctors who examined her found no sign of responsiveness, and EEGs came back negative. Believe me, I have sympathy for the family, I really do, but that's a very difficult situation, and the stress can lead you to see things that aren't actually there. It can be incredibly easy, under those circumstances, to interpret a twitch reflex as a sign of brain activity. Heck, even dead bodies have been known to show signs of movement hours after the heart has stopped.
And to clarify, the brain damage discovered in the autopsy was consistent with prior MRI scans, so the autopsy isn't the only evidence of massive brain damage.
russadwan wrote:Do you know they give [more] rights to convicted muderers than they gave to her?
ITT: Russ is prejudice against murderers. D: What would Jesus do, man? What would Jesus do?
BTW, God:
THE ANDROGENY HAS GOT TO END! Argh... It is acceptable from David Bowie and no one else - and even he's given it up.
o_O is that a dude or a girl?
rock_nog wrote:It can be incredibly easy, under those circumstances, to interpret a twitch reflex as a sign of brain activity. Heck, even dead bodies have been known to show signs of movement hours after the heart has stopped.
There is a huge differnce between twitching, and talking. She would say "Honey, can you say 'I love you'. And Terrie would struggle and say "I... luuu... yu'. You call that a twitch reflex? I don't think so. Was she disabled? Yes. Was she a vegetable? Not by any means.
He's a guy.
I'm sorry, but that's just creepy.
Russ, where are you getting your information from? Every time I ever heard anything about the case, she was in a coma pretty much. Just lying there.
If there was any response from her at all, than there wouldn't have been any controversy. The law is explicit; if you are conscious and able to respond, and someone deliberately kills you, that is what we define as murder. Where it gets murky is if someone is still technically alive, but comatose. That's where all the argument came in.
EDIT: Heh, I almost wish I'd gone to my schools Homecoming now, just for the entertainment value. Apparently it sucked, including, but not limited to...
-The DJ being so bad he got booed off the stage.
-Couples not even being allowed to touch each other while dancing.
-Parents and teachers walking around, marking people's hands with sharpie for violations, and kicking people out after two.
My friend who left at 9:30 said she can't believe she had to pay to go, it was such a rip-off. I would have found the whole thing perversely amusing, bitter cynic about school dances that I am.
Russ, you don't think it's remotely possible that maybe, just maybe, the family just imagined that? I'm sorry, but there's absolutely no evidence, to my knowledge, that backs these claims up. Despite the numerous claims the family made, trained medical professionals could detect no signs of sentience. How do you explain that? I understand that it's a very sensitive issue, but at the same time, I also understand the effects those kinds of stresses can have on a person, and how that person's reality can be altered by psychological pressures.
Amaster42 wrote:Russ, where are you getting your information from?
The laywer for her family.
rock_nog wrote:Russ, you don't think it's remotely possible that maybe, just maybe, the family just imagined that?
Ya, I'm sure that the laywer and everybody else just imagined it too. If I can find it, I'll post a link to his speech. The you can judge for yourself.
I don't want a link to a speech by a lawyer - I want testimony by trained medical professionals.
I'm of the opinion that if the person was dependant on a feeding tube, she was essentially dead. There was no need for them to keep her "alive" as long as they did.
I hate to be the one who sounds uncompassionate, but I think what I said makes sense.
She wasn't dependant on a feeing tube. She just needed somebody to put food in her mouth. She wasn't on any kind of life support.
See, now you're just blatantly lying. No one anywhere denies that she required a feeding tube. Where the hell are you getting this garbage?
According to Wikipedia, she was dependant on a feeding tube. I think there's too much misinformation about this case to warrant anyone arguing about it any longer. It's in the past anyway.
russadwan wrote:She wasn't dependant on a feeing tube. She just needed somebody to put food in her mouth. She wasn't on any kind of life support.
lol seriously where do you get your news?
Those of us in reality land know that she was completely dependent on a feeding tube that went directly into her stomach because she her brain was too damaged for her to to know she needed to eat. She was a vegetable; just a living, breathing poop factory with no thought. Terry Schiavo died years before they removed the feeding tube. All that was left was a biological organism with no capacity for thought, reason, emotion, or the desire for self preservation.
russ, your school had Terry Schivao's lawyer come and talk to you about the case?
Have you ever heard of bias? Look it up in the dictionary, because that's what you were exposed to at your school (somewhere that's supposed to be a place of education, which I guess is really just for indoctrination where you live)
russadwan has a history of taking random strangers at their word instead of being skeptical inquisitive.
Beldaran wrote:russadwan has a history of taking random strangers at their word instead of being skeptical inquisitive.
Lawlz. Indeed.
EDIT: I'll just leave this right here…
That's Chris Crocker, btw. He's so effing pretty in this photo. O;
*sigh* Let's not bring religion into this, guys. Russ was just misinformed, thats all. Grossly, unjustly, blatently misinformed.
mighty_darknut wrote:That's Chris Crocker, btw. He's so effing pretty in this photo. O;
No, and he's not funny either.
Well, at least I'm not the only one who can't sleep tonight.
And, mighty_darknut, I don't want to put you on ignore... but keep this up, and I will.
Oh no, I slept well, I just had to wake up early to do homework. I just don't do good work late at night. I'm very much an early morning person. Usually that early is 6:40, but today there was an exception that had to be made.
Wow. I'm the opposite - normally I'm staying up late rather than getting up early. Of course, tonight, I couldn't sleep at all, so I stayed up very late - i.e., into the next day. Whoo, my 3 hour seminar is going to be a blast! -_-;;
Ugh, I didn't sleep well last night, but that's because I've got this monster of a cold. Sneezing, sore throat, coughing (which really sucks when combined with the sore throat), fever, achiness, the whole 9 yards.
Amaster42 wrote: Let's not bring religion into this,
How do you propose to debate the Terry Schiavo case without mentioning religion, which is the entire basis for conservative argument?
Beldaran wrote:How do you propose to debate the Terry Schiavo case without mentioning religion, which is the entire basis for conservative argument?
Not necessarily - I think a lot of the people who were opposed to her "death" were, like Russ, convinced that she wasn't already braindead. Granted, obviously you have these "culture of life" types who believe you shouldn't pull the plug under any circumstances, but I do remember a lot of them trying to convince us that she wasn't just a sack of meat at that point (but then again, that could just be because even they realize how daft it sounds to argue for keeping a sack of meat alive).
Of course, maybe it's just me, but if I were in that situation, even if I did have some minimal level of consciousness, there's no way in hell I'd want to be kept alive. I mean, to be robbed of your mental faculties like that, just seems like a fate worse than death.
I think a lot of the people who were opposed to her "death" were, like Russ, convinced that she wasn't already braindead. Granted, obviously you have these "culture of life" types who believe you shouldn't pull the plug under any circumstances, but I do remember a lot of them trying to convince us that she wasn't just a sack of meat at that point (but then again, that could just be because even they realize how daft it sounds to argue for keeping a sack of meat alive).
Aye - It keeps surprising me how on occasion, strong emotional forces (Even from those not really involved.) can make a dent in realistic thinking. If I was completely paralyzed, I'm pretty sure I'd rather die than live trapped in a prison of what was once my own flesh and blood. It'd be pretty horrible. :shakeno: It's like the corruption of what was at one time the ultimate joy, (Well, it'd seem like it relative to what would exist now.) into the ultimate cruelty.
mighty_darknut wrote:I love nature. O:
If that was true you wouldn't be destroying it, you vegan fiend! Save a tree, eat a cow. Even though cows don't eat trees, but you get what I mean.
Bash time. Except vegans are worse than vegetarians in the context of the quote.
phattonez wrote:No, and he's not funny either.
I don't expect YOU to think he's pretty. He still is.
Icey wrote:
And, mighty_darknut, I don't want to put you on ignore... but keep this up, and I will.
Okay, since you threatened me so nicely… =[
/random picture that won't upset anybody
I'm upset by it! I hate impressionist crap! RWARRR!
