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Zodiac, the Side-Quest

199 replies · 62,157 views · Started 21 May 2007

jman2050 wrote:History lesson:
What's funny is that this still stands as his only completed quest. Now if only Sabotage Dragoon can be finished somehow 😞

Unlikely in the near future. Sabotage Dragoon was made using the most advanced techniques available in pre-2.5 alpha. But with scripting, pretty much the whole quest should really be re-vamped. It's just dated at this point.

That's not to say you won't see it released eventually. But I'm aiming to finish Zodiac by next summer, and I probably won't start tinkering with S.D. again until that is done. Trust me, though, Zodiac will not dissapoint when it's finished.

jman2050 wrote:What's funny is that this still stands as his only completed quest. Now if only Sabotage Dragoon can be finished somehow 😞

Hrm.
Well thanks for explaining that.

I always think it's interesting finding out what some of the older members made.
Rather off-topic, but dy'know anything about what ShadowTiger made?

I've wondered about what some of the people who's names crop up around here a lot actually did.

Not that I'll play DoY, because I can never get more than 20 minutes or so into a quest without getting bored nowadays, especially not one made on an older version like that.
Still interesting to know though.

Minor update: Spin Attack (screw attack) and Infinity Boots (space jump) are completed. Graphics for Taurus and Leo overbosses are complete.

I'm going to be needing one more side-scrolling boss for Virgo. Anyone want to make suggestions? Virgo is a plant level. I would like the player to encounter the boss twice. The first time, it takes damage and retreats. The second time, it fights to the death. It guards the Spin Attack.

C-Dawg wrote:
I'm going to be needing one more side-scrolling boss for Virgo. Anyone want to make suggestions? Virgo is a plant level. I would like the player to encounter the boss twice. The first time, it takes damage and retreats. The second time, it fights to the death. It guards the Spin Attack.

Here's an obvious suggestion:

The boss is a plant, so maybe the first time you fight the boss is rooted. 😉 ..And does...y'know, plant stuff. Stuff you couldn't pay a Taiwanese prostitute to do. :googly:

The Virgo Master boss was pretty cool,but I suggest that it should get a little faster towards the end of its life if possible. I mean,I know it already gets faster. But what I mean to convey is that it should get even faster at the end. I found it to be quite a build up wearing him down, and then when he has a couple sprouts left, he isn't moving fast enough to stay alive long enough for it to be fun.

By the way, is it the intended functionality of that one item to allow you to continuously detonate bombs? It seems dis balancing.

Re: bombs

No, but for now it has to be that way because of the way missiles work. See, when you spawn a link bomb weapon, you can't tell the engine what sort of bomb to drop. It looks at the player's inventory. So I have to give him instant-blow bombs so that the missiles work.

If the designers mess around with LWeapons, I'll fix this bug. If they don't, I'll probably change how I'm implementing either bombs or level 2 missiles to accomodate.

By the way: that Virgo boss is really vulnerable to the Spin Attack. Holy crap it rips him up. Not that you have access to that weapon yet.

I dont know if this is the right forum or not, anyways i have been trying to change the link sprite tiles from zodiac to something else, and every time i try to change it, it shows random tiles or no tiles at all, do i need to change anything in the script or change certain tile positions? Thanks in advance.

I think you should make the infinity jump more like the screw jump in Super Metroid, if you jump and then you jump for the double jump and then the rest of the jumps are just like the double jump, that would make getting to some places a lot easier.

Also when I try to make a quest using the same scripts I cant get the jump to work and I also have the ffc set to jump, any help would be appreciated.

Edit:I just figured out that a ring was equipped and that solved my problem!

Long time, no update. But I have been busy. Here's what you get in this update:

1. New feature: you can see how much damage is being dealt to you, and you have a numeric display of your current hit points.
2. TOTAL overhaul of the SHMUP levels. Play to check them out. Bosses have received similar facelifts.

This one still uses Beta 819 but should run ok in newer betas.

http://users.sephiroth.ws/C-Dawg/zodiac%2007-31-08.zip

I found a bug. When I beat the boss of they flying level, I was holding the down button and I ended up walking onto a blank screen.

Ah, very cool. You got some enemy formations that sort of remind me of galaga! I died twice on the first level before I realised that you really should be picking up all those life powerups the enemies drop. Not really sure where to go next however.

edit: I put in a warp code, ended up in the underwater corridor, and got my ass handed to me by fishes. ..And you tell me that my levels are hard. 😉 ...I'm guessing I need better equipment or life upgrades.

editmore; How did you get the enemy bomb explosions to be expanding circles? ..I'm sure the answer to this is gonna be a one liner...

Yeah... I had to use invincibility to get through the flying part, then when I got on foot I was totally lost. =\

Exploding Circles

To answer Gleeok's question: The Mine enemy changes to an Exploding Mine enemy (which has a blank graphic) when it runs out of hit points or gets close enough to the player. The exploding mine counts down for about 30 tics and then dies. Each tic, the exploding mine draws a transparent circle with radius equal to 10 times it's remaining life or something like that. Then it draws a random circle somewhere in the radius.

Damage is handled by an invisible enemy created when the Exploding Mine is created. The enemy is either offscreen or on top of the Exploding Mine, i forget which. When the player gets too close, the enemy is moved on top of the player for that frame.

Where do I go next?

To answer concerns about being lost: Yes. Eventually, most doors will have computer terminals the Guardian can use to hack into the enemy's network and get tips on her next location. Without it, your first goal is to travel right and down, then left through a water location, defeat several bosses, and get the Impact Saber and a few upgrades for your sidearm.

Then climb to the far northeast corner of Aquarius and travel left, using the Saber, to get Lev. 1 Missile Launcher.

Then travel left, going directly South of the starting location to open the door there, and across the forest, going to the treetops to open the door there. Finally, go south along the far left border of Aquarius to find Scorpio. You can pick up three or four missile packs on the way.

Of course, the result of all of this is that you earn the Bombs in Scorpio, which the quest starts you with. So you could skip all this and straight to the southwest region of Aquarius, get the Armor upgrade, then go 3 screens south of the starting location and left, taking you to Aries. In Aries, the high-jump is in the far lower left corner.

Once you have the high-jump, you can get to your second flying level in the far upper left of Aries, and the third level, below a destructible floor about seven or eight screens right of the starting location in Cancer.

And... so on like that.

It's too hard!

The initial flying level requires you to be on your toes, but it's not really too hard once you get the hang of your abilities. Obviously you want to memorize the attack patterns so you can kill as many baddies as possible without taking hits in return. Collecting health on the fly is vital because you WILL get hit occasionally.

The biggest key to SHUMP levels in Zodiac is to use your Bomb attack wisely. Holding "L" will fire a massive beam that tears up enemies caught in it for as long as you hold the button. But it uses up your energy, so you only can stockpile about two second's worth of the bomb. That's enough to clear all the enemies nearby. You can use it as your panic button when things get hairy, but the better use is to fire it up whenever you can nail five or more enemies at once. Your odds of one of them dropping an energy upgrade are pretty good, and once you refill your energy, you can fire the Bomb again.

The first boss should be easy once you get how to defeat it. The boss fires spreads of bullets that you can dodge by nudging through. But the four yellow crystals on it's wings fire more powerful seeker bullets, and occasionally fire cigar-shaped heat seekers that will track you until you destroy them. Enter the boss battle with full energy and focus your Bomb attack and shots on one side of the wing or the other until you destroy the yellow crystals. Then do the same on the other side, though you might be out of energy by then. Once you get rid of the crystals, the boss is a piece of cake - just nudge carefully through his bullet patterns.

And yea, you shouldn't be surprised that the enemies crush you if you skip ahead a few dozen levels without getting all the intervening upgrades!

Yeah, I figured you just did something clever like that. At first I thought you changed the enemy super bomb animation somehow because of the knockback.

You know what's left for us to script though, right? Yep; Splines.

So far that's the thing nobody has even attempted in zquest. I've made a few enemies where you could think that's how they were made, but nope. Haven't done it yet. That's gonna be the key for creating complex movement patterns, smooth motion vectors, and jaw dropping enemy formations, not to mention the boss attacks one could create.

Whadya say? I could use some help, to be honest.

Well, this doesn't sound very hard. Just define your movement pattern precisely in advance. Like, get some grid paper and a graphing calculator. Then you're going to make some parametric equations that script out the path. So say you want the enemy to come in from the top left edge (t = 0, x = 0, y = 0), proceed towards the middle of the screen (perhaps by function t = x, t = y). Then when it's at x = 120, which is also t = 120, have it switch to move in a figure-eight (I forget the parametric equation) or whatever.

If you've mapped it out in advance, I don't see any reason why you can't just do everything using parametrics.

Got splines working using arrays and a few workarounds! 😃

I'm getting a weird behavior with some items in the shmup levels, well not really weird but more like sometimes even if you're directly over the power up item it still won't allow you to get it. It looks like it goes right underneath the ship. Not sure why...

EDIT; Gah, the powerups will also move down too fast before you can get to them. I do have a suggestion: Howabout changing the border tiles to only be half-unwalkable?

Otherwise, good job on the levels. It's good that you did the background graphics it seems too, it fits in with the rest of the game much better

Gleeok wrote:
I'm getting a weird behavior with some items in the shmup levels, well not really weird but more like sometimes even if you're directly over the power up item it still won't allow you to get it. It looks like it goes right underneath the ship. Not sure why...

I've noticed this, too. I think it's a factor of Z3 movement combined with the fact that enemies drop items wherever they are killed, which is not necessarily on the normal 8x8 grid. I don't think we can control the collision detection of items, though, so I can't do much about it.

Gleeok wrote:
EDIT; Gah, the powerups will also move down too fast before you can get to them. I do have a suggestion: Howabout changing the border tiles to only be half-unwalkable?

Remember, there are speed upgrades. As you get quicker, it's easier to pick up items.

This gives me an idea for another upgrade, though. Perhaps an item magnet that yanks items to the player when the player is close enough? Trouble is, this would check every item on the screen and lead to serious slowdown with lots of items.

In other news

I'm just about done with the general game. Soon I'll start working on plot and plot-centered areas. That means I'm going to be closing the public portion of quest development. I'd rather the plot was kept under wraps until it's totally done. I'll probably start working on this in September. At that point, I'll need some beta testers to work with me on debugging portions of the game as it's meant to be played. I particularly want Gleeok and other scripters to help out, but anyone else is welcome. If anyone is interested, let me know so I can get an e-mail list going by mid September.

Well, I've been interested in this game since last winter, and have enjoyed it. I'd be glad to help you beta test it.

I would definitely be interested in testing this. I am not sure how much time I will have once school starts back, but I will help out as much as I can.

Like I say, the eventual goal is that it will be hard but you can grind for awhile to make it easy if you need to. Sort of like leveling up in a role-playing game.

C-Dawg wrote:Like I say, the eventual goal is that it will be hard but you can grind for awhile to make it easy if you need to. Sort of like leveling up in a role-playing game.

That's cool, but it would be nice if the opening level wasn't so difficult.

What makes you think I dont plan on having grindables BEFORE that opening level?

Probably the fact I didn't tell you, I guess.

September you say? Judging from the size of this thing I'm reading that as October or later. 😉 At least that's when I'll have some free time to test. Also what about build specific bugs? It could get somewhat annoying going through the newest alpha each time and having a possibility of having to refix stuff that worked fine before. Or do you plan on settling on a beta that seems to be particularly non-buggy and sticking with that?

Any rate, I hate grinding. In rpgs I'm always under leveled because I refuse to walk in circles and mash buttons for an hour. 🙄 If It makes the game harder but not absolutely Impossible, that's no problemo. 😊 As long as testing time doesn't get exhausted by some kind of aimless wandering or powerleveling....and I'm babbling now....that's my queue to get some sleep.
Look forward to it.

Right you are, Gleeok sir. I'm having a son next month, so things have taken a turn against having time to work. I'll have a month of pregancy leave though (paternaty leave FTW!) and I'll be continuing work on Zodiac then. The artwork should be pretty easy to hammer out while taking care of baby.

Congrats C-. Awesome news! That's some good work right there. :P

Thought of any names for the baby?