pikaguy900 wrote:No, he just.... Broke up. :P
In TP, he actually broke apart in little black rectangles.
In ZC he dissolves
Ah, three new equipment items!
majoras_wrath wrote:In TP, he actually broke apart in little black rectangles.In ZC he dissolves
I meant in ZC.In ZC, he breaks apart into little particles. In TP, he breaks up into little black squares of TWILIGHT. 😮
Will the item names be editable anytime soon?
Oh yeah, that's a good point.
Next to implement: item name, and subscreen name.
4: Yes!
You know, _L_, it's very cruel to announce all these nifty additions without committing them to the source repository so the other devs can look at them. 😛
Well, in my opinion, new features such as these, well.... as long as there are no bugs it's OK if _L_ adds them without doing what you said. Little stuff like modifying existing stuff or adding the ability to edit certain little things should be OK. Big stuff like New Items and the like should be done with consent by other Devs.
Though to be fair, it IS something that's been on the Subscreen Editor for quite a while, in the "Soon To Be Completed" style as written on the actual subscreen entity type itself. There is a bunch of things that needs to be "finished" that's visibly unfinished before 2.5 can be released. (Floor / Ceilingmasters, Z3 Boulder and Z3 Moldorm, those subscreen elements, the bats, etc.)
Are there any major bugs left? Seriously, I can't recall now any unfixed major bugs like the "subscreen crash" were in the earlier betas or the "item disappears" in 2.11b14 or like the "arrows useless" in 2.11b12b.
However, if the Developers aren't already planning the stable 2.5, then probably there are some major bugs which I don't know of. Of course, there is a slight chance that 2.5 will be our Easter present... (in one of the upcoming years).
I like new features added though. It's like "make the pig really fat before you sell it". Just not to overfat that pig, so it dies before could be sold.
So... does a higher level Roc's Feather increase the height of your jump?
Master_of_Power wrote:So... does a higher level Roc's Feather increase the height of your jump?
I hope it increases the distance you jump! 😃
Yeah, a different distance bsed on level, and if you add in activated Link Tile Modifiers, you could merge the hover boots into the Roc's class, as well as fulfill my request for a shorter jump by making the current one level 3 or so.
Amaster42 wrote:Yeah, a different distance bsed on level, and if you add in activated Link Tile Modifiers, you could merge the hover boots into the Roc's class, as well as fulfill my request for a shorter jump by making the current one level 3 or so.
Or you could have it be one of those misc properties that you referred to. Don't forget a way for it to be different in sideview!
Dark Nation wrote:You know, _L_, it's very cruel to announce all these nifty additions without committing them to the source repository so the other devs can look at them. 😛
One of the implications of the current setup is that any time any other developer can release a public build of the current revision, and it'd be unnecessarily mean to release it without the appropriate ZQuest editing functions completed.
UIs are one of those things that take time for me!
You know what? I've just realised that you (that is, several people) are right - tying the item's Family Level to both item succession and weapon power is unnecessary overloading and constricting.
So, it is time for the following rewrite: the levels are now unchanged (swords are still 1,2,3,4, and still trigger appropriate combo flags), but a new variable, Power, is used for damage and jump height and such (for which the swords are 1,2,4,8).
CastChaos wrote: It's like "make the pig really fat before you sell it". Just not to overfat that pig, so it dies before could be sold.
Heh, well that's just what's happening to ZC. The pig is going to explode any minute now.
_L_ is on a crazy mode again...
There's tons of new stuff added and changes made to ZC since b254, it would be nice to get a new build ASAP to see how damn buggy the newest build is and is all compatibility ruined with b254... 😞
_L_:
Ok then, That will probably work better anyway since the item level is intended for the properties of the item, right? (eg. the white sword triggers white sword flags and wooden sword flags)
Petoe:
You're right. _L_ is getting carried away. Improving the item editor isn't on his to-do list... Unless another dev had L work on it for him or L considers it a bugfix.
The only REAL danger with all these misc. attribute numbers is ZC/ZQuest crashing with someone using absurdly high numerical values.
In other words, a character limit will have to be set for ALL the text boxes these editable values will need - I take it _L_'s already considered/done this.
Yeah, all these features seem to be a low bug risk. I mean, they basicly reorganize stuff that was already in the code, instead of new stuff that isn't understood and buggy.
Good point.
All I'm really doing is rearranging the existing item code such that it's less dependant on item IDs and more dependant on family IDs and power levels. The extra stuff, like remote bombs and slashing wands, was either already partially implemented, or trivial to include.
Also! To make things easier for all of us, I'm giving the Hurricane Spin and Super Quake their own item families.
Doublealso: Among other things, you can now set magic costs for the Spin Attack, Quake Hammer, Cross Beams, and the Peril Beam. If both Cross Beams and Peril Beam have magic costs, and you can use both, then you'll be charged for both. For fun, set one of them to cost rupees and the other to cost magic! (For testing purposes only, of course...)
I have thought of a solution to the combo flag problem:
I'll add an extra variable and checkbox to the item editor. The variable will hold the number of the combo flag which is affected by this item, and the checkbox will mean that the item can also trigger combo flags for lower-level items of the same family.
EDIT: Wait. What about those Flag-related secret combos per screen?
One efficiency problem - for your method, doesn't this mean ZC has to check all the weapons in that weapon family to see which flags they trigger, when checking to see if a flag gets triggered?
Say you have five items of each class and five flags of each class. (The first class is items 1-5)
Item 1 is set to flag 1. Item 2 is set to flag 2. Etc.
When you have item 5 hit flag 3, Item 5 needs to check to see if it can trigger flag 3. However, the quest doesn't know whether or not flag three is of that item's family; Therefore, it has to check to see if it can 'trigger weaker flags'; If so, it has to check the item list and find what items are of it's family, and analyze all of them (item one through item four) until it either finds one or does them all. So it has to go through the items until it comes across item 3, which it learns to trigger the flag.
Just a little thought, wouldn't that increase code complexity and increase the load? Surely there's got to be a sim
pler way. Maybe we'll need a 'flag editor'... so we can define what families/classes the flags respond to.
Your current idea would fail because of the fact that candle flags are also triggered by Din's Fire, which is an entirely different item family. Mine would work, however.
As for the secret combos screen, I guess it'd have to be completely reworked to make each page dynamic; Possibly with scrollbars in each tab.
Oh, you're also clearly going to have to deal with the unmovable 'item combos' situation. Perhaps you could re-code various combos such as 'Slash', 'Bush', 'Pound', 'Damage N' and such to where they would, if the appropriate flag was pasted over them, require that specific item to be able to be triggered. Say, you had a Bush combo with a Sword 3 flag over it; It wouldn't cut unless you used Sword 3. Damage combos with a 'Boots' flag would require a Boots of that level or higher to cross; Anything lower and you take the damge. The level of the flag would override default settings of the combo.
Perhaps this simply depends on the item in your inventory, not what you hit it with. So that way, a bush with the 'Wand' flag over it wouldn't cut until you had the wand in your inventory; But if you did, it'd cut with the sword, not the wand.
Of course, the simpler and wiser way to make it work would just be that the combo ignores the effects of any flags other than the ones that are synchronized with it.
Either way. We already have it so that slash combos will have their undercombos overridden by the 'Secret N' flags, in fact we've had it for a long time. So why couldn't you expand on that capability?
L, any chance we could get some special "custom" secrets, so we don't eat up our generics. I doubt many people use all 16 but the use of them for custom items is a bit counterintuitive.
Something I'm not entirely satisfied with is the Shield family. It seems awfully constrained to just have Power (limited to the range of 1 = small, 2 = large, 3 = magic) be the only editable option. And yet I'm at a loss to think of what the other misc. values can represent.
_L_ wrote:Something I'm not entirely satisfied with is the Shield family. It seems awfully constrained to just have Power (limited to the range of 1 = small, 2 = large, 3 = magic) be the only editable option. And yet I'm at a loss to think of what the other misc. values can represent.
You can add options such as amount of damage stopped (or percentage), chance of breaking, whether it stops velocity of attacks, or still "kicks" Link back when hit, and ability to individually mark which type of attacks are absorbed and reflected, maybe ability to push enemies (like in Zelda IV). These type of abilities would allow a bit more flexibility, especially in non-standard quests.
Well this discussion has certainly been interesting. 😊 I checked Shardstorm, and found the following.
New equipment: Peril Rings (increase defense when HP is low), Whimsical Rings (to be completed with Enemy Editor changes), Stomp Boots (jump onto enemies to damage them - also to be completed with Enemy Editor changes) and the Stone of Agony (Link vibrates when standing on secret combo flags).
Furthermore, the Lens Hint symbols are now determined by searching through item data for the matching item.
Also, ring colour is now determined by a Ring's misc1.
Thus: Following the trend set forth by the first post in this thread:
1) So there are now two Peril Rings? If one re-enables sword beams, and the other increases (Doubles? Triples?) defense, ... ... actually, wait, what's the point of increasing your defense at all? If it makes you harder to kill, isn't that the same thing as giving you one or two hearts back to help you out of that sticky situation so you don't die? The only difference is that if you keep getting hearts, you're immortal. So this ring would act like a one-time (Per danger.) stimpack. Alright then. Why not combine both? I.e. setting the Peril Ring's Misc1 attribute to 0 lets you shoot sword beams at < 1 heart, while setting it to 1 doubles your defense, setting it to 2 triples your defense, and setting it to 3 doubles defense and lets you shoot sword beams, and setting it to 4 triples defense and lets you shoot beams. Eh?
2) So, if we have stomp boots, ... this makes things interesting. I'm going to write down a few thoughts; make what you want of them.
- If you had the stomp boots equipped, (Would they be equipment or inventory? Able to be turned off or not? You'll see why in a moment.) we may need a trigger for this, in either Pound Combo form (If Walkable.) or in Stomp form. (Again, Walkable, since you couldn't pass over the unwalkable combo anyway.) .. Or perhaps a new combo (Stomp/Pound) featuring both, since it's a fairly similar action.
- If we have a Roc's Cape, we'd be able to double jump, OR jump, then press it again to hover a bit like in OoS, assuming you had to press the button again at one point. I wonder if these boots would NOT act in conjunction with the Roc's Feather. I.e. when you "used" these boots, if they were an inventory item, if you would simply jump up, flip, and land very heavily on the ground. Otherwise, if they were used in conjunction with landing after using the Roc's Feather, it'd be an item similar to how the Magic Book is paired with the wand. Unless:
- So, if every time that you jumped, you'd be stomping something when you landed, couldn't one, in theory, make a puzzle like this, that would force someone to try to not land on a cracked floor, otherwise it'd break? So if they could turn it on and off, this puzzle wouldn't be possible unless the quest designer could decide whether it should be toggleable or not.
- So, if you landed on an enemy with these boots, (Whether toggleable or not.) it would be the equivalent of a normal point or two of damage against them, eh? Eventually, you'd have to wander away from that enemy, or when it stops flashing, it'll just hurt you, as you're in its hitbox range.
3) Concerning the Stone Of Agony, it probably needs both a combo type that'd trigger it and a flag that'd trigger it. I say this to almost provoke the removal of its use with normal secret flags, as secret flags really aren't something that should be apparent in any way to the player 100% of the time. I'm not referring to instances where you can stand in front of an invisible switch, but to flags that trigger a warp which is involved in a cutscene. Players would find themselves spending many minutes trying to figure out how to trigger a series of combos in front of a bridge or something, when in fact it's only triggerable by killing the Trigger Enemy, which you can't.
4) Lens hints may be even more useful as a screen flag settable. I.e. they could even be separate from secret flags entirely! If the Lens is meant to guide you, (Say, making invisible arrows apparent to you.) When you manage to find your way to that invisible floor button, the arrows shouldn't appear as the door opens. Yet, the mere presence of those arrows on the floor is determined by the secret flags that you place there. The Lens Hints should probably have a system of something similar to the Combo Alias system, where you can set a "stamp" of a lens hint and place it on the screen, along with a screen flag that states that when secrets are triggered (Or enemies are killed?) on that screen, the lens hints will no longer appear when using the Lens.
5) Now this idea of a ring's color is really cool. Can Misc1 Determine the Palette that Misc2's Cset will use? (That sentence is phrased in suggestion, not inquiry form.) That way, you could make a palette completely devoted to Link, and maybe even Color Cycle it. (Disco Link, anyone? Maybe a Fierce Diety Link whose eyes shine and glow?) However, if it's a ring item, it should probably also have other benefits tacked to it besides a defense multiplier. Perhaps one misc setting could toggle not a multiplier, but an additor! (Instead of taking half damage, or a thousandth damage, which is still damage, they could simply take half a heart less damage, rounding to zero, so if you had "Takes fifty less damage," you could potentially have an invulnerable Link on your hands, despite still being vulnerable to knockback.)
Sorry if I'm being a bother. I love these items (And their concepts.) and congratulate you thoroughly on your incorporation of them into ZC/ZQuest. 😊 The more refined we can make them, the more useful they'll be to everyone.
These for pre or post 2.5? I mean, they all sound amazing, especially the stomp boots, but were headed back into "super complex buggy feature" territory. I personnaly don't mind waiting for 2.5 with them, but I know others are going to want them postponed...
If there is a chance of bugs, would they be severe, annoying, or minor?😕