Either that, or include some sort of intra-ZQuest documentation for the possible values and translations of these misc entities in case people don't know to check the pinned thread to get those values.
I'm still totally in favor of that rollover help system. 😛
How about a compromise...
Take the quest rules out...
but ...
Make a new dialog with buttons (matching those quest rules) that, when clicked, set the appropriate enemy flags on the appropriate enemies. That way, you can set them pretty much as you did before, or edit enemies manually.
Best of both worlds.
Also, I'm betting that if I, jman, or koopa had made the same suggestion (changing some quest rules to something else, which, by the way, has been done before), not as many people would have had a problem with it. It's just that L suggested it, so it must be bad. 🙄
Well, this topic is the one that really stirred the beehive. Everyone is paranoid now due to it. 😊
http://armageddongames.net//thread/95953/
jman2050 wrote:Personally, I hate the quest rule system so anything that'll force people to stray away from that is okay in my book. I do worry about backwards-compatibility though.
I don't want to sound like a bandwagon (fillinblank) here, but jman basically said exactly what I was thinking.
The important issue isn't whether users are required to open up the enemy editor and make a small (and very simple) change. This issue is whether the requirement to do so makes it impossible to play a version 1.92 quest (for example) in the version 2.5 ZC player, without opening it up in ZQuest 2.5 to manually update it.
I don't know TOO much about programming, but it sounds like this conversion could become a big problem unless you specifically address it. So just make sure you address it when you do it, that's all.
Personally, I agree that it isn't unreasonable to ask questmakers to open the enemy editor when they want to edit the friggin' enemies. :P Just so long as it doesn't require them to mess with the confusing "Misc. Attributes" that for the most part can't be used without an attribute reference chart (in their current state, at least).
You know, whats the big deal with backwards compatability. If you want to play1.90 quests, just keep a copy of 1.90 along with 2.5.
Something I didn't realise at all until today: the Ghini 1 uses a completely different movement system to the Ghini 2.
Hence, I can merge the Ghini 1 into the Walker type, and the Ghini 2 into the Floater type (along with Keese, Keese Tribble and Peahat.)
Is the Floater type going to have most the special attributes of the walker type (Shooting, Jynxs ect?) and Do you have plans to do a Jumper Type as well?
Yeah, pretty much. Take the Walker's misc. atrributes and change misc6 to the following:
misc6: 0 = Keese, 1 = Peahat (invulnerable in flight), 2 = Ghini 2 (same as Keese, but doesn't cast shadows and "fades in" when created)
Also, the "Ghini 2 Flickers" and "Ghini 2 is Translucent" rules are departing as well - and in their wake comes two enemy flags which allow any enemy to be flickering and/or translucent.
Doublealso: if I can, I'm going to merge the Like Like with the Walkers as well. Engulfing will be another Status Effect. And yes, before you ask, a Rupee Like effect will also be possible.
Triplealso: The "Rate", "Halt Rate", "Homing" and "Step" variables are now used by the Floaters. Here's what they do:
* Rate: How often it changes direction in flight... I think. 2 for Keese, 4 for Peahats.
* Halt Rate: How long, in frames, it rests on the ground. 0 for Bats.
* Step: 5 for Keese, 8 for Bats. Influences flight speed.
* Homing: The comments call this variable "graduality". The smaller it is, the faster the floater accelerates and decelerates. 0 for Bats, 16 for Keese.
If you are going to do this, it's best to make it as error free as possible.
Such as making the boxes dropdown instead of typed in. Also have what the misc attribute does next to the number. Right now it is confusing and I hope you at least consider this.
I like the additions and changes being made. Like I usually say, though... "as long as they are stable..."
Amaster42 wrote:You know, whats the big deal with backwards compatability. If you want to play1.90 quests, just keep a copy of 1.90 along with 2.5.
And I certainly hope you didn't mean to refer to ZQuest, because not being able to open older quests in ZQuest would quite piss off some questmakers... And yes, I know a handful who have quests in 1.90 because they think it's more stable.
But I dunno... the best answer is because that's what Zelda Classic does. That's what makes it "Classic."
Wow! This is gonna be awesome now! Think of the possibilities...
01. Fire Peahats: Peahats that shoot fireballs at Link
02. Poison Keese: Keese that make Link "drunk" when they hit him
03. Rupee Like Like: Like Likes that steal Rupees from Link
04. Magic Like Like: Like Likes that steal Magic from Link
05. Super Bubble: A bubble that perminently disables both the sword & b-item.
06. Fire Ghinis: Ghinis that breathe fire.
07. Shielded Peahats: Peahats that are invulnerable from the sides so they must be hit from the front or back and they have strong HP and Damage.
08. Super Goriyas: Goriyas that throw extremely harmful boomerangs and throw them rather often and walk really fast.
09. Super Zol: A Zol that not only "poisons" Link (drunken effect as described by _L_) when he touches it, but also splits into 8 gels when defeated.
10. Bombdo: A gibdo-like enemy that shoots bombs at Link and also explodes when defeated.
I'm fairly certain that all of those will be possible. As for whether they ought to be made...
Heh, I ditto that.
The enemy editor, like everything in life, is best when used in moderation.
_L_ wrote:
Doublealso: if I can, I'm going to merge the Like Like with the Walkers as well. Engulfing will be another Status Effect.
Would wall masters be considered an engulfing enemy? If so could draging Link off be set up as an engulfing option? (All I need now is the "Rope Charge" to be made into an enemy flag and I'll be happy, and promise to tell everybody what genius you are next time they start bashing you like a piniata.)
Latest news: I'm going to make the Walker's misc9 confer special movement patterns. 1 = Rope charge, 2 = Vire hop, 3 = Pols Voice leap. Thing is, some these movement patterns will require some internal tinkering to make them compatable with halting_walk...
Also: Tektites are crazy, and will probably remain as their own enemy type. Maybe Wallmasters also.
As would be expected. ^^. Perhaps alter the height of the Tektite's jump, but in the form of a "Minimum" jump and a "Maximum" jump? ... ... Then there could be a randomness factor to set the randomness of alteration between the two, in that a 0 would be an exact one to one alternation, and a 10 would be a completely random and unknown pattern of jumping from anywhere between minimum and maximum jump height.
This may mean that my dreams of a randomly jumping Coffee Darknut can finally come true!!!1!!1161
ShadowTiger wrote:As would be expected. ^^. Perhaps alter the height of the Tektite's jump, but in the form of a "Minimum" jump and a "Maximum" jump? ... ... Then there could be a randomness factor to set the randomness of alteration between the two, in that a 0 would be an exact one to one alternation, and a 10 would be a completely random and unknown pattern of jumping from anywhere between minimum and maximum jump height.This may mean that my dreams of a randomly jumping Coffee Darknut can finally come true!!!1!!1161
Remind me never to play one of your quests.
...Oh, and his eyes should be really big and bloodshot. Like he hasn't slept for days.
Other Custom Monster Ideas (For the cruel at heart):
A gleeok that spits out bombs. Even worse, make it a gleeok2.
A Ghoma that shoots a constant stream of enemy magic when it's eye is open (Possible?)
Octorok on Crack + Blue Wizrobe Movement + Invulnerable to Sword = Doom?
A zol that 'tribbles' into two Deathknights
And many more evil ways to torture your player. For more information, contact your local malicious advisor :sly: .
Heh... instead of making just more cruel enemies, I'm also going to make some enemies easier; such as making the Death Knight weaker so you can actually use him in a quest without a red/gold ring. The Mirror Wizzrobe's attack power shouldn't be as high unless you have a red ring. It's really cool that we can do things like this now.
Plus, you can also make enemies like they'd be in LADX and the Oracles. Remember, in those games, the defense increases were optional, and even then, it only halved damage. LA didn't have the Blue Tunic, though.
Speaking of LADX, using the Enemy Editor, I'm going to seriously tone down on the enemies. All enemies will stay, but they'll be weaking, like they are in the Oracles games. Anyone know a link to a website that tells how much HP and stuff each enemy has?
I'm using it to totally mess up the boss system. This way I can make tough Ghoma's for later on, or maybe a weaker Gleeok in the beginning.
*Sigh* Now all we need are custom enemies that can be bigger than one square.
Cjc7988 wrote:Other Custom Monster Ideas (For the cruel at heart):
A gleeok that spits out bombs. Even worse, make it a gleeok2.
A Ghoma that shoots a constant stream of enemy magic when it's eye is open (Possible?)
I haven't reached the bosses yet, but rest assured that such a degree of weapon customisation will be possible.
Also: I'm at a bit of a quandry regarding equipment-eating Like Likes. As I have it now, if you set a Walker's misc7 to 8, and its misc8 to an item class (see the IC_* values in std.zh), then it will eat any and all items in that class that Link has. The only items assumed to be inedible are Mirror Shields and Small Shields (unless the "Like Like eats small shield" rule is set.
Do you think maybe I should instead, I dunno, add an "edibility" checkbox to the Item Editor?
pikaguy900 wrote:Plus, you can also make enemies like they'd be in LADX and the Oracles. Remember, in those games, the defense increases were optional, and even then, it only halved damage. LA didn't have the Blue Tunic, though.
Speaking of LADX, using the Enemy Editor, I'm going to seriously tone down on the enemies. All enemies will stay, but they'll be weaking, like they are in the Oracles games. Anyone know a link to a website that tells how much HP and stuff each enemy has?
_L_ wrote:I haven't reached the bosses yet, but rest assured that such a degree of weapon customisation will be possible.Also: I'm at a bit of a quandry regarding equipment-eating Like Likes. As I have it now, if you set a Walker's misc7 to 8, and its misc8 to an item class (see the IC_* values in std.zh), then it will eat any and all items in that class that Link has. The only items assumed to be inedible are Mirror Shields and Small Shields (unless the "Like Like eats small shield" rule is set.
Do you think maybe I should instead, I dunno, add an "edibility" checkbox to the Item Editor?
Well, which would be easier? Setting a checkbox in the item editor or specifying which levels of the item class the Like Like could eat.
...Actually, nevermind. The checkbox is easier. Add 'edible' checkboxes and remove the quest rules regarding Like-Like's shield treatment.
Of course... this would need another 'redirect' code to maintain reverse compatibility, so whether or not you want to do it is entirely up to you.
Dlbrooks33 wrote:LA had the blue tunic and the red tunic. You had to choose at the end of the color dungeon. OoA/S didn't have those tunics at all, but they had rings, a Red Ring for x2 STR and a blue ring for x2 DEF.
I know that. The Tunics and Rings are two different items, thus the "they are optional".
_L_, make checkboxes for eatability. Some of us would like to have Like Likes eat Mirror Shields, too.
On that note, think you could make a single Item for shops that would be a Small Shield if you no shield or a Small Shield, but turn into a higher-level Shield if you collected the appropriate Shield? Think the shields you could buy in OoA/OoS....
you can already do that. Go to init data and uncheck the small shield. Then make a shop and put in a small shield for 20 rupees like in the games. You now have yuor buyable small shield.
that's not what he's talking about
he means the shop sells the small shield if you don't have a shield
or have the small shield
if you find the Magic Shield the shop no longer sells the small shield
but carries the shield you currently have. and then on.
but then you would have to have shops that resell the other shields
so that for example if a Like Like eats your Mirror Shield, you would
need somewhere to reclaim it, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense,
then you would have lost your shield, thus making the shop revert back
selling only the small shield. making you screwed...
shadowfall1976 wrote:that's not what he's talking abouthe means the shop sells the small shield if you don't have a shield
or have the small shieldif you find the Magic Shield the shop no longer sells the small shield
but carries the shield you currently have. and then on.but then you would have to have shops that resell the other shields
so that for example if a Like Like eats your Mirror Shield, you would
need somewhere to reclaim it, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense,
then you would have lost your shield, thus making the shop revert back
selling only the small shield. making you screwed...
It's not supposed to revert back to Small Shield. Once you get the Magic/Mirror Shields, the Shield item is permanently stuck to selling THEM. Not the Small Shield, not the shield of a lower level, but the last Shield you had (Or the Small Shield, if you never got a shield). But I guess I'm rambling.
Edit: Oopsy. Didn't mean to post it all.... XD
Come to Think about it, perhaps a "Class Restore" Item level, Set the Item Level to "0" and it will always be the most current level of the Item. This way it could be applied to any Item you care to let the Like-Like eat. This would also work if you want the Red Potion to Replace all the the Blue ones once it is obtained. Another Idea could be a "Last item lost" item, this would go well in the Like-Like's Drop List if you want to make it possable for Link to get Items back if he kills the Like-like.
It is very likly that these can be accompleshed via Scripting, but I figued I would throw it out there anyway.
Oh, one more thing, Since we have Tribble Enemies, can we have "Cling on" (Pun Intended) Enemies as well? It doesen't seem that enemies that cling to Link and slow him down would be much different the the enveloping ones.
well ok then sheez............ :eyebrow:
no, but I knew where you were going, man... I was actually trying to infer
to someone else what you meant... and all I [SIZE="1"]get for it is[/SIZE].......😊
redmage777 wrote:Oh, one more thing, Since we have Tribble Enemies, can we have "Cling on" (Pun Intended) Enemies as well? It doesen't seem that enemies that cling to Link and slow him down would be much different the the enveloping ones.
As for shops, well... once signpost combos and "give item" control codes are mastered, you can make entirely custom shops using just those. Once there, you can use room state carryovers to modify that custom shop's contents dynamically based on Link's progress...
EDIT: I'm extremely thankful for the existence of the S-tiles. Currently they do nothing. But henceforth, their application shall be thus:
* For Walkers with Shield flags set, the S-tiles will be used for their broken shield sprites. (Remember, only Walkers have breakable shields.)
* For Patras, the S-tiles will be those used for the outer eyes.