What a glorius day for the virtual console...

They could if they really wanted, there are alot of excellent games for the systems supported.

Yeah, but they already stated they were saving the great titles for when the wii lineup isn't the greatest. Between big releases and such.

I still wish they'll embrace doing quality arcade ports, like a perfect port or emulation of games like Mortal Kombat that got butchered home conversions.

D&D Shadows Over Mystara would be great, especially with a save feature.

But that probably won't happen.

All the CPS2 games would be great for VC. 😉

MottZilla wrote:I still wish they'll embrace doing quality arcade ports, like a perfect port or emulation of games like Mortal Kombat that got butchered home conversions.

The problem is that requires them to waste money developing arcade emulators - which while probably easy, is probably more work than Nintendo is willing to do :P

But yeah. They could do some bad-ass stuff if they'd start adding arcade titles to the VC.

Street fighter II?! Australia are stuck with a bunch of lackluster new releases. What a joke. Surely it's not that hard, Nintendo, and think of the money you'd be earning.

Warlock wrote:The problem is that requires them to waste money developing arcade emulators - which while probably easy, is probably more work than Nintendo is willing to do :P

But yeah. They could do some bad-ass stuff if they'd start adding arcade titles to the VC.

Most companies just illegally use the MAME emulator project to hack together their own emulator for profit. Nothing is stopping them from doing so, or honestly benifiting from the source code to write their own.

MottZilla wrote:Most companies just illegally use the MAME emulator project to hack together their own emulator for profit. Nothing is stopping them from doing so, or honestly benifiting from the source code to write their own.

Until someone rips apart the system and finds this, and Nintendo gets a lot of bad press or something. I don't know.

Either way, if there is a problem it's not even their software, so they are kind of screwed. Just better to develop their own. But it's Nintendo, so they probably never will :P

Warlock, many companies have illegal used the MAME project in commercial products. No legal action has ever taken place, mostly because MAME is a project with many contributors and it would be hard to find 1 person responsible for code like a cpu core that would be upset enough to want to start a law suit over it. So they might as well use MAME to provide great arcade games for VC. But again, they won't. Can't wait till it's cracked and there is homebrew though. Only thing is it's unlikely it could ever top the xbox in homebrew awesomeness.

Well, been playing Castlevania IV... started with the cube controller and got sick of it. So I bought the classic controller and it makes a world of a difference. It's a nice little controller, especially only being $20. The only thing I don't like is the right joystick gets in the way when i wanna hit the start button. But as far as playing SNES games, it knocks the socks off the GCN controller.

All of the VC games are much better with the classic controller.
Well worth the $20 spent.

My only gripe is it isn't technically wireless.
I would have gladly paid another 10 or 15 to have it wireless, however having it plugged into the remote isn't a huge deal.

My main gripe with the Classic Controller is that you can't reprogram the buttons for certain games. I hate having to use the "a" or "x" buttons on the classic controller for jumping on SMB. I much prefer using the "b" button for jumping and the "y" button for running, etc. Minor gripe, but they could have least included a button config. Maybe in an update...

The VC is getting better, but its no where near what it should be so far, looking at the Japan VC list.

I played some Super Castlevania.. as much as I love that game, I remember all the things I felt were "cop-outs" in it too. That is, stuff that was added 100% for the sake of "the system can do it so we should do it."

Some examples:
-Layering on the first level, where you can go behind the fence SMW style. There is no point to that, other than the fact NES couldn't do it.
-Moving stream around level 2 (forget exactly which one). This I forgive, but the whole thing seems like it was only added because the SNES can do it so well (it actually reminds me of an arcade style thing).
-Whip as grappling hook - not bad actually (and why it hasn't shown up again is puzzling), but again, seems added just to add it.
-The "rotating room" - basically a room with spikes on all the walls, that you have to use a grapple point while it rotates around. This room has *no* purpose other than "we need a way to show off mode 7 effects!!!"
-The spinning room (looks like you are inside a spinning barrel. Same deal, and this room lags HORRIBLY, at least on VC (and I'm sure the original does too). And by that, I mean almost to the point where it's unplayable it's so bad. There was no reason to add this room, and given the performance hit to the game, there was no reason to keep it in.
-Swinging chandeliers just after you get inside the castle - another excuse for mode 7, and they look like absolute pixelated crap too (like they took a 32x48 sprite and scaled it up to cover the full screen). Also annoyingly hard.

But yeah. It *is* a fun game, just that sometimes I see it and wonder what the hell they were thinking on some design choices. Like I listed, a lot just seem there for the sake of being there.

Stuff I really like about this game though:
-One of the last real "stage" Castlevanias, just before the Castletroid series of games. There were a few after this (Bloodlines, etc) but playing this again I wonder why they've never at least attempted to go back to that format for even just one game.
-Whip swinging. I know I listed it above, and it *is* sort of neat and even an element that would work well in the Castletroid type games. Not sure why it hasn't returned, other than the fact that maybe the games have gotten "un-stiff" and it's not needed so much with moves like the double jump and uppercut thingy.
-Whip angles - OMG I knew these were in the game, but I forgot just how amazingly good this works. Being able to swing my whip at 45 degree angles or strait above me is amazingly useful!

And overall, it's just damn fun. I'd put the difficulty on there, which is good, except that half of it comes from annoying things like stiff controls, stupid platforming elements (i.e. the ones that spin when you jump on them, and you have to double jump to not die), and enemy knockback (usually into pits). Other stuff is good though.

Funny too, I think the Ghost sprite hasn't changed at all. People complain about the Medusa sprites, but they are actually different in this game :P

Yeah, I think a lot of the stuff they put into Super Castlevania was done simply for the sake of "Look! Pretty 16-bit stuff! Buy it 'cause it's shiny! SHIIIIIIINY!"

If I remember right, couldn't you jump while on stairs in that game? That was a handy feature. As for whip-swinging... they made another half-assed attempt at including it in Bloodlines. I agree that they should flesh it out more. Give us some Bionic Commando-style whip swining sections! And yeah, lashing your whip out at a 45 degree angle isjuat plain awesome.

What *I* want to see on the VC are the Gargoyle's Quest games. Gargoyle's Quest 2 and Demon's Crest were great fun.

EDIT: And Clash at Demonhead. That game was fucking awesome.

Warlock wrote:
-Layering on the first level, where you can go behind the fence SMW style. There is no point to that, other than the fact NES couldn't do it.

Wrong, NES could put sprites both behind and infront of the background layer as desired.

Warlock wrote:
-Moving stream around level 2 (forget exactly which one). This I forgive, but the whole thing seems like it was only added because the SNES can do it so well (it actually reminds me of an arcade style thing).

It takes advantage of one of the big features of the SNES graphics chip which is color arithmetic which can be used to make the appearence of translucent water. How is this at all not a good inclusion?

Warlock wrote:
-Whip as grappling hook - not bad actually (and why it hasn't shown up again is puzzling), but again, seems added just to add it.

Again, how's this a bad idea? And actually this was in CV Bloodlines. I think it might have been in CV64, not sure.

Warlock wrote:
-The "rotating room" - basically a room with spikes on all the walls, that you have to use a grapple point while it rotates around. This room has *no* purpose other than "we need a way to show off mode 7 effects!!!"

That room does NOT nessisarily use mode 7. It just uses rotation, another key feature of the SNES graphics chip. Also, on the real hardware the game does not "lag" or slowdown.

Warlock wrote:
-The spinning room (looks like you are inside a spinning barrel. Same deal, and this room lags HORRIBLY, at least on VC (and I'm sure the original does too). And by that, I mean almost to the point where it's unplayable it's so bad. There was no reason to add this room, and given the performance hit to the game, there was no reason to keep it in.

Shows off a key feature of the SNES graphics chip again. Also, there is no lag or slowdown on the real system. It sounds to me like the Wii uses a poorly coded SNES emulator that has serious problems (speed wise) with the scaling and rotation effects.

Warlock wrote:
-Swinging chandeliers just after you get inside the castle - another excuse for mode 7, and they look like absolute pixelated crap too (like they took a 32x48 sprite and scaled it up to cover the full screen). Also annoyingly hard.

Again, not mode 7, yes they are scaled, they are using rotation a key SNES feature. And no it's not hard, it's extremely easy.

Warlock wrote:
But yeah. It *is* a fun game, just that sometimes I see it and wonder what the hell they were thinking on some design choices. Like I listed, a lot just seem there for the sake of being there.

I'll tell you why. Back during the time Super Castlevania was developed, memory was expensive. Super Castlevania was on a very large (at the time) 8 megabit cartridge, that's a whole 1 megabyte. The SNES by itself couldn't handle any useful compression other than text and maybe level data. Memory was expensive. This is one reason that realtime effects like the translucent water, scaling, rotation, all were extremely nice and used in places you might think were silly. But you need to understand they only had a very limited amount of memory. The simple fact is when Super Castlevania was made, a game like Super metroid (created later on) was impossible (not really, but impractical) due to memory technology.

So you need to cut it some slack there, and also it sounds like the VC emulator sucks ass. There is some slowdown in SCV4 on the real thing, but not in any of the places you described. The main places there are slowdown is the 2 headed hydra/dragon boss you fight over a pool of water, and when you are whipped those sandmen that break into even more sand men. But its mainly just that. Really large bosses or when theres a huge chain of enemys that you whip at once. Neither are really annoying.

The background effect areas have no slowdown because those effects are down in hardware.

Warlock wrote:
Stuff I really like about this game though:
-One of the last real "stage" Castlevanias, just before the Castletroid series of games. There were a few after this (Bloodlines, etc) but playing this again I wonder why they've never at least attempted to go back to that format for even just one game.

I'm with you on that. I like the linear and challenging classic gameplay. Shame on them for basically making SotN clones again and again.

Warlock wrote:
-Whip swinging. I know I listed it above, and it *is* sort of neat and even an element that would work well in the Castletroid type games. Not sure why it hasn't returned, other than the fact that maybe the games have gotten "un-stiff" and it's not needed so much with moves like the double jump and uppercut thingy.

I really liked it too and I believe it would have a good place in a new CV game. I'm sure they could find a way to make it useful.

Warlock wrote:
-Whip angles - OMG I knew these were in the game, but I forgot just how amazingly good this works. Being able to swing my whip at 45 degree angles or strait above me is amazingly useful!

They had the whip mechanics and such down pat for this one. But that GBA CotM and any other time you might have had any weapons they seems pretty generic and not very great. All pretty much the same. Very disappointing.

Warlock wrote:
And overall, it's just damn fun. I'd put the difficulty on there, which is good, except that half of it comes from annoying things like stiff controls, stupid platforming elements (i.e. the ones that spin when you jump on them, and you have to double jump to not die), and enemy knockback (usually into pits). Other stuff is good though.

Funny too, I think the Ghost sprite hasn't changed at all. People complain about the Medusa sprites, but they are actually different in this game :P

Overall I think it's a masterpiece. Some may disagree, but hey fuck them. 😉 It's sad to hear that the VC's SNES emulator sucks donkey dick. If you can, run the GameCube SNES9X port and play it on that then. ;p

[quote='Warlock']-Layering on the first level, where you can go behind the fence SMW style. There is no point to that, other than the fact NES couldn't do it.[/quote]
you should play "mario BROS 3" on the NES... the very first level allows you to go behind the scenes.

Yeah, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying these features are bad, just that some of them feel "used for the sake of being used." Like the seal thing in Dawn of Sorrow - that had *no* point other than "OMG we have a touch screen we *have* to use it!"

MottZilla wrote:Wrong, NES could put sprites both behind and infront of the background layer as desired.

Right, I forgot about that. Still, it wasn't as flashy as it was on the SNES, and the whole walking behind the fence thing screams SMW ripoff. If there was some strategic element to this I'd let it slide, but there's really no reason to do it other than "Look ma! I'm behind the fence!"

It takes advantage of one of the big features of the SNES graphics chip which is color arithmetic which can be used to make the appearence of translucent water. How is this at all not a good inclusion?

Again, not saying I didn't like it. I actually do like this part of the game. That being said, not a lot of walkable rivers in other Castlevanias :P I think CV3 had some so I'll cut them some slack though.

Again, how's this a bad idea? And actually this was in CV Bloodlines. I think it might have been in CV64, not sure.

Not a bad idea, just not used all that much. They'll throw in one or two "platforms that are too far to jump to" and a grapple in between. It just makes it feel like more of a throwaway feature to show sprite rotating than anything else.

That room does NOT nessisarily use mode 7. It just uses rotation, another key feature of the SNES graphics chip. Also, on the real hardware the game does not "lag" or slowdown.

That's my bad. And there was no slowdown, I just felt this room was 100% pointless.

Shows off a key feature of the SNES graphics chip again. Also, there is no lag or slowdown on the real system. It sounds to me like the Wii uses a poorly coded SNES emulator that has serious problems (speed wise) with the scaling and rotation effects.

Ok, if this is an emulator issue then I can let this slide. It's a wierd-ass room, and one that doesn't necessarily make sense (why again is the room spinning?) but there's nothing otherwise too wrong about it. But yeah, on the Wii the slowdown here is beyond rediculous. If the emulator has problems with scaling and rotating, how in god's name is it going to play Super Mario Kart?

Again, not mode 7, yes they are scaled, they are using rotation a key SNES feature. And no it's not hard, it's extremely easy.

They look like crap though. Had these been regular (or pendulums) it would have been ok, but they are abnormally large and set against a pure black background. It's actually quite shameful to the rest of the game how bad they look. And the hardness comes from Simon's stiff controls (which at least were better than NES Simon I guess :P)

I'll tell you why. Back during the time Super Castlevania was developed, memory was expensive. Super Castlevania was on a very large (at the time) 8 megabit cartridge, that's a whole 1 megabyte. The SNES by itself couldn't handle any useful compression other than text and maybe level data. Memory was expensive. This is one reason that realtime effects like the translucent water, scaling, rotation, all were extremely nice and used in places you might think were silly. But you need to understand they only had a very limited amount of memory. The simple fact is when Super Castlevania was made, a game like Super metroid (created later on) was impossible (not really, but impractical) due to memory technology.

So you need to cut it some slack there, and also it sounds like the VC emulator sucks ass. There is some slowdown in SCV4 on the real thing, but not in any of the places you described. The main places there are slowdown is the 2 headed hydra/dragon boss you fight over a pool of water, and when you are whipped those sandmen that break into even more sand men. But its mainly just that. Really large bosses or when theres a huge chain of enemys that you whip at once. Neither are really annoying.

I realize that, all I'm saying is the purpose for a lot of the game's areas/effects seemed superficial at best. At the very least they could have come up with some better ways to implement the FX (like the chandelliers if they didn't look so ugly).

But yeah, I think the dragon had slowdown too - as did a lot of the bosses (esp when throwing a lot of crosses at them). But none were nearly as bad as that spinning room slowdown. The game drops to something like 3-4 FPS.

Edit: Damn you Japan:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/752/752415p1.html

I want Zelda 2 *now*!

This thread's making me remember how much I liked Castlevania 4 back in the day. I should hook up my SNES and play it again.

Maybe it was because I was younger when I played it, but I didn't see any of those things you listed as put in just because they could. The rotating room and the room that spins behind you were both in level 4, along with a room with a bunch of moving blocks that can crush you. So that particular level always seemed to me to be a level of moving rooms, in which case both of those rooms fit in fine.

Heh, I think I just hate level 4. I didn't even mention the spinny platforms that spin when you jump on them. I hate those. I wouldn't mind them if you weren't *forced* to jump on them, forcing you to re-jump the second you land to avoid dying (again, wouldn't be a problem if the controls were not so stiff). Occassionally this was at the very max range of your jump - there is one way up high.. you can just *barely* jump to it.. but you have to re-jump as soon as you land on it, which is rather annoyingly hard (Simon doesn't like to jump again so quick after landing).

But ya, I still don't like the rotating room - there is no point to it. You hang on the grapple thing, jump down and kill some Medusa heads, then hang on it some more, then leave. It's just a huge time waster. It's not even hard, except maybe the Medusa heads (which tend to knock you down into the spikes), but that difficulty could have been done on a non-rotating room as well :P

Though that reminds me of one thing I do dislike about the "stage" Castlevanias - the time limit. It's usually not a problem, but in particular the area just before the main castle entrance (level 5?) you get like 70 seconds to run through the entire area to the castle doors. That's rediculous. That was the first time I died because of the time limit. The time limit seems to have no point other than to force you to hurry up and play sloppy. I'd much rather take my time - at least when I'm in trouble and have low health.

I also hate the vertical platform jumping, in the sense that you've got the "pit" below you which wasn't a pit two seconds ago when you were down there, but apparently bottom of the screen = pit all the time :P I'd much rather just lose the progress, or have some other reason not to fall (i.e. rising spikes or something).

But ya, still a fun game.

Super Castlevania IV is among the finest platformers ever made and also among the finest SNES games released.

Everything about it is entirely without flaw when placed within the context of those months just following the launch of the SNES.

Is Toejam and Earl any good? I've heard good and bad things about it, and I'm not sure if I wanna spend $8 on it.

Orion wrote:Is Toejam and Earl any good? I've heard good and bad things about it, and I'm not sure if I wanna spend $8 on it.

I would like to know this as well. Everyone always praises it but I've never actually played it.

TJ&E is pretty good. Hope they've got a sve funcion on the VC though, otherwise it's impossible to finish.

Warlock wrote:I also hate the vertical platform jumping, in the sense that you've got the "pit" below you which wasn't a pit two seconds ago when you were down there, but apparently bottom of the screen = pit all the time :P I'd much rather just lose the progress, or have some other reason not to fall (i.e. rising spikes or something).

Wait 'till the later levels. 😊 The 'spikes' will start rising really fast.

T&E was a decently fun game, but I don't know if I'd spend $8 on it now. The main thing it has going for it is its uniqueness.

Darth Marsden wrote:TJ&E is pretty good. Hope they've got a sve funcion on the VC though, otherwise it's impossible to finish.

If you return to the Wii Menu in the middle of a VC game, a save state is created for you. Upon reloading the game, the savestate is loaded, then erased (so it can't be reused).

Ok, got to the clock tower last night (finally - god I hate that treasure room floor and those gay gold skeletons).. Best level in the game, I swear to god. It's hard, but I don't even mind dying so much because the level is fun (with exception to dying because those spining gears have shitty collision detection if you don't jump exactly in the center of them).

Also, omg Bloody Tears! I think that is the best version of that song I've heard - it's *extremely* good. Maybe I am biased because that is my favorite Castlevania song 😃

Is Bloody Tears the one that plays in the forest in CVII? That one is extremely kick-ass, particularly in SCVIV.

Riverman wrote:Is Bloody Tears the one that plays in the forest in CVII? That one is extremely kick-ass, particularly in SCVIV.

Yes.. it's the nighttime theme ("What a horrible night to have a curse..." 😃)