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Here's what the overworld looks like so far

19 replies · 8,964 views · Started 01 November 2006

_L_ 01 Nov 2006, 09:29

Neo Hyrule, version 0.9. (Not complete yet. I'm thinking of leaving the L2 and L3 surrounding areas to the discretion of the person designing those dungeons.)

And here's a labelled one with important areas and items marked.

Notes:
* The King of Thieves' cave is actually behind the marked building.
* Amicus Palace can be entered at any time, but you'll need to purchase your own door keys when you're inside.
* Fort Aquatius requires a Boomerang and the Raft to enter.
* Copse Labyrinth requires the Power Bracelet to enter.
* The Power Bracelet requires the Bow and Arrow.
* The Bow and Arrow are being sold in a shop in Hyle Town.
* The Endless Desert is a maze room, but will use a script to procedurally generate different terrain combinations each time you enter it.
* The Witch's Grotto and the Sand Labyrinth can only be accessed by the Whistle's whirlwind.
* I'm not completely satisfied with how the castle went. Methinks it lacks a certain amount of Epicness.
* Life's End doesn't have any secrets.
* The names aren't necessarily fixed. (I know that the mountain town's name is probably not going to be Darunia.)

Comments!

ShadowTiger 01 Nov 2006, 14:39

Well, holy crap. That's amazing, _L_. I couldnt've done better if I'd wanted to.

And I did want to. 😛

A few things though. Do answer all of them, please. Priorities first, of course:

1) L2 is in the lower east corner, about two or three screens distance from the actual lower right corner. Did you allot space for it?
2) L3 is in the EXTREME upper right hand corner, one screen to the left of the upper right corner.
3) Continuing from 2), You have to walk back with Zelda from Level 3 in the Dark World equivalent, and apparently, we're meeting up with the end villain in the equivalent of Link's house, which is destroyed. (Or something.) Have you taken that path into consideration?
4) The King of thieves' hideout was supposed to be in the lower right corner. (The EXTREME Lower right corner.) There was a lot of lava in that area, which would've accounted for part of L2's mere existence. It seems to be completely gone.
5) On that note, there were *three* Thieves you could find. The first one would point you out to the second, and the second would point you out to the third. The first was just to the northeast of your town. The second was (Anywhere you'd like.) the third is in the extreme Southeast of the map, as I mentioned above.
6) The whistle in the moat is usually just to the right of the drawbridge. Right? What was your reasoning for putting it to the left?
7) Elaborate on the following please?

  • Witch's Grotto
  • Link's treehouse
  • The concepts of: Ocean Labyrinth, Sand Labyrinth, Copse Labyrinth, Tropical Labyrinth.

8) I made a house just to the right of the label for the King of Thieves. What did you think of it?
9) The lower left corner's house can indeed be the 1/2 magic area.
10) Please explain the concept of these "Elements?"
11) I think we're going to have to work with the Palette for Hyrule Castle. It'll need some new "REALLY F*CKING OLD" Castle tiles to supplement their graphics. Radien put some of these in, following the OoT castle format. I can whip up a few broken brick tiles in a jiffy. Nothing too hard. I also think the whole area could use its own Dmap, along with the "mood" of the area. Let's make the whole area kinda "blocked off," only accessable from one or two areas to increase the drama factor, leaving a large blank spot on your map for people to have to work for. I'm really keen to that idea m'self.
12) Does the Ocean Labyrinth contain anything related to the Elements? What does it do? REMEMBER, there's a stair entrance hidden behind one of the columns JUST to its right.
13) Tail Cave?

_L_ 01 Nov 2006, 17:48

ShadowTiger wrote:Well, holy crap. That's amazing, _L_. I couldnt've done better if I'd wanted to.

And I did want to. 😛

A few things though. Do answer all of them, please. Priorities first, of course:
1) L2 is in the lower east corner, about two or three screens distance from the actual lower right corner. Did you allot space for it?

As evidenced by the size of the blacked-out portion, yes.

2) L3 is in the EXTREME upper right hand corner, one screen to the left of the upper right corner.
That's fine, too.

3) Continuing from 2), You have to walk back with Zelda from Level 3 in the Dark World equivalent, and apparently, we're meeting up with the end villain in the equivalent of Link's house, which is destroyed. (Or something.) Have you taken that path into consideration?
I thought you fought Zelda at the Link's house parallel?
4) The King of thieves' hideout was supposed to be in the lower right corner. (The EXTREME Lower right corner.) There was a lot of lava in that area, which would've accounted for part of L2's mere existence. It seems to be completely gone.

Actually it's still there, but I blacked it out on the PNG file. Sorry!

5) On that note, there were *three* Thieves you could find. The first one would point you out to the second, and the second would point you out to the third. The first was just to the northeast of your town. The second was (Anywhere you'd like.) the third is in the extreme Southeast of the map, as I mentioned above.
Uh-huh. But the "King of Thieves"-marked screen is also the screen you instructed me to place a thieves' hideout in this post.

6) The whistle in the moat is usually just to the right of the drawbridge. Right? What was your reasoning for putting it to the left?
By "usually" you mean just OoT? Or have I inadvertantly used the Zelda Classic quest design clich� "Whistle in Moat"?

7) Elaborate on the following please?
* Witch's Grotto
The only place where you can purchase the following items:
* Red Potion
* Bottled Fairy (needed at the 1/2 Magic place)
Also, you may or may not meet a witch beforehand, providing a clue as to the Bottled Fairy's location.

* Link's treehouse
Link lives in a treehouse on the marked screen. He has a sort of affinity with the forest spirits, which is why he's chosen by Zelda in the first place.

* The concepts of: Ocean Labyrinth, Sand Labyrinth, Copse Labyrinth, Tropical Labyrinth.

Tropical Labyrinth holds the Summer Element, and I suppose it will mostly contain wood obstacles, shallow water, some more of those vine-style Leevers, Fire Zols and Spear Shooters.
Copse Labyrinth will contain mostly stones, bones, and some opportunities to show off that "rooms turn dark when fire goes out" Quest Rule.
Sand Labyrinth was added to make the desert a bit more interesting, and also for a place to put some shifting sand tiles.

They're called "labyrinths" because that's how The Legend of Zelda's manual names its dungeons.

Most of them exist to provide some "backwards compatability" with Neo Hyrule's past. (Remember that 40 years ago Dim and Sarai went on a quest for the Four Elements?)


8) I made a house just to the right of the label for the King of Thieves. What did you think of it?
It was intended to be the Learn Slash room, right? Well, ah, I'm not sure either. Just a place in which to hear some backstory about the Mystic Woods?

10) Please explain the concept of these "Elements?"
For the Four Sword. I mentioned it in another topic.

11) I think we're going to have to work with the Palette for Hyrule Castle. It'll need some new "REALLY F*CKING OLD"
Technically it's only 20 years old - the final battle against King Dim and Miro took place there. But hey, a lot can happen in that time, especially considering the new occupants...
Castle tiles to supplement their graphics. Radien put some of these in, following the OoT castle format. I can whip up a few broken brick tiles in a jiffy. Nothing too hard. I also think the whole area could use its own Dmap, along with the "mood" of the area. Let's make the whole area kinda "blocked off," only accessable from one or two areas to increase the drama factor, leaving a large blank spot on your map for people to have to work for. I'm really keen to that idea m'self.
12) Does the Ocean Labyrinth contain anything related to the Elements? What does it do? REMEMBER, there's a stair entrance hidden behind one of the columns JUST to its right.
I dunno. I recall you put it there in the first place. Maybe the boomerang (normal or magical) could be hid there?
13) Tail Cave?
And yet Eagle Labyrinth and East Palace go unquestioned?

ShadowTiger 02 Nov 2006, 01:16

As evidenced by the size of the blacked-out portion, yes.
Yes, but think in terms of the Geography. It's not a SMALL REGION, this volcano. o.o' It's a rather large mountainous area. There's grass practically all around it. Once again, there aren't even any volcanic areas left to the south of it that I made. They're gone. (I'll read up on your reply to that in a bit.) (EDIT: Okay, nevermind about those two screens I made. 😛 Thanks. They're still there; good.)

I thought you fought Zelda at the Link's house parallel?
That's actually on the way to Link's house. I guess there should be some sort of large clearing somewhere just east of the Town where Link's house is.

Uh-huh. But the "King of Thieves"-marked screen is also the screen you instructed me to place a thieves' hideout in this post.
.. Whoah. Did you take "First Thief" to mean King of thieves? o.o? I meant "The first thief that you find." Not like, .. the Japanese "Ichiban" equivalent, meaning "Number One." "The Biggest." "The Best" etc. First means the chronologically first thief that you encounter. The king of Thieves is the last thief that you encounter. So yeah, that place marked King of Thieves on the map, would probably be the first thief. Make him EASY to find. 😛 The second thief will be harder to find. Somewhere not three screens distance from that first thief though.

By "usually" you mean just OoT? Or have I inadvertantly used the Zelda Classic quest design clich� "Whistle in Moat"?
Heh. _L_, you're far too awesome. 😛 I just meant that since you have a "Hyrule Castle," and you also have a "Moat," and you also have a "Whistle in the moat," (Forgive my overuse of quotation marks.) it may as well stay true to the similarities and continue parallel to the story, just for awe's sake. If they see an old abandoned castle similar to Hyrule Castle, they may as well assume that other things about it are OoT'esque as well.

Link lives in a treehouse on the marked screen. He has a sort of affinity with the forest spirits, which is why he's chosen by Zelda in the first place.
... ... Ah. o_o' I had thought that he would live in the town itself, in that house I built with the orange walls (Or was it orange roof? I don't recall.) I actually don't really mind, but just be aware that it's "longer" that Link has to walk to get back to his house in the dark world, and also keep in mind that if his house is in the equivalent of the town in the dark world, it's that much more dramatic. You can make it "The odd man out" (But in house terms. 😛 ) for that town, being the only house in the dark world that seems to be .. well, .. in existence. Makes people wonder why It's the ONLY HOUSE that's there in the equivalent of the town. Now if his house was in the forest, we don't get to think that. We also have to pass through the town and do something with it that doesn't involve Link, I guess. Kinda boring.

It was intended to be the Learn Slash room, right? Well, ah, I'm not sure either. Just a place in which to hear some backstory about the Mystic Woods?
Eh, I guess. Unless we don't start with the slash, feel free to do whatever you'd like with it. 😛

Technically it's only 20 years old - the final battle against King Dim and Miro took place there. But hey, a lot can happen in that time, especially considering the new occupants...
... Hrm. > >. I keep imagining a very, very old castle. A rather large piece of me wants to make it completely ancient and mysterious, and cut off from the world by time's overbrush. That's just me though. 😛 You know NeoFirst better than I do, apparently.

I dunno. I recall you put it there in the first place. Maybe the boomerang (normal or magical) could be hid there?
Oh, in that little place? ... Yeah, sure. Absolutely; why not. Easy enough. The guy inside will claim that he has a "hidden treasure," so you go looking through his cave/house for anything hidden. It reveals nothing; just a looping dungeon. (Small.) So you have to go searching for it. The entrance is outside just to the right of his house. A similar dungeon is inside, but actually contains the boomerang in a hidden area within the dungeon.

And yet Eagle Labyrinth and East Palace go unquestioned?
Well is there still time to question them? :blah: What do all three Dungeons/Labyrinths/Palaces do?

_L_ 02 Nov 2006, 06:06

ShadowTiger wrote:Well is there still time to question them? :blah: What do all three Dungeons/Labyrinths/Palaces do?

Eagle Labyrinth: this idea was mentioned by someone else in a really old topic. Well, at first it seems to be just a wrecked, abandoned version of First Quest's first dungeon. Holes in the ceiling, rubble on the floor, not a soul to be seen, maybe even no music. But when you get to a certain room, you have to fight a custom boss. (I guess it's an in-joke, but hey, if you're playing ZC in the first place then the odds are good that you'll get it.)

(Yes, there are a lot of ruined and deceased things in Neo Hyrule. It's a plot point that the kingdom isn't in very swell shape.)

East Palace: while this technically isn't a dungeon, its interior will have some... architectural similarities to another dungeon of the same name. This may seem like another in-joke, but it's also indicative of my desire to subvert the traditional meanings and connotations of "dungeons" in the Zelda sense - what was a mere level in A Link to the Past is now a base of operations for one of NeoFirst's protagonists.

Tail Cave: mostly a place to show off scripted versions of those peculiar Game Boy Zelda puzzle elements. Like the coloured tiles rooms, or the Three-of-a-Kind enemies, or those coloured blocks that move in groups when you push one of them. Also some sideview areas downstairs, with gravity.

ShadowTiger 03 Nov 2006, 01:31

Hot damn, _L_, those are some outstanding ideas. I'll be glad to build those if you'd like. They'd provide some EXCELLENT side-interest for the quest. :] :thumbsup:

_L_ 03 Nov 2006, 13:36

ShadowTiger wrote:Yes, but think in terms of the Geography. It's not a SMALL REGION, this volcano. o.o' It's a rather large mountainous area. There's grass practically all around it.

I've been pondering this, and I've come up with an idea that will allow us to have a rather large mountain with a relatively small base of support. However, it will require placing some of it on another Map. (No, it's not what you think. See attachment.)

Also, I kind of like the visual image of a massive pillar of stone, snow and fire piercing the sky.

EDIT: I also have a reasonably excellent MIDI to use for the mountain ascent. It requires, however, that there be a significant level of snowfall on most of the mountain's screens. It's called Winter Wind, and it's an all-piano piece - but it's by Chopin so it doesn't matter.

ShadowTiger 03 Nov 2006, 15:31

However, it will require placing some of it on another Map. (No, it's not what you think. See attachment.)
Erm... Care to elaborate on the underlined part? (Just out of curiosity, really.) I think that this was exactly what I was thinking. 😛 I did this before in one of my quests. Pretty damn awesome. You even get to place clouds around the region in general. One thing does strike out at me though; in order to maintain the illusion of a height-based mountain while still at its base, BEHIND the mountain, (I.e. north of it, assuming up is North.) I would imagine that we'd have to either create some tiles of mountains with every other pixel (beginning from halfway up the tile, or 1/3 up, more or less.) transparent, ... or make some mountain tiles transparent and unwalkable to the entire south so they can't scroll down to break the transparent illusion.

... ... In other words, ... When you're behind the mountain, it shouldn't go STRAIGHT UP into the next screen on a layer. It should kinda dissolve into the space above it on that layer, so you know that there's a mountain reaching high up into the sky, but you have little to no problems seeing behind it to the trees or cliffs or whatever behind it as well.

(BTW, awesome looking attachment. 😛 I love how much effort you put into everything, _L_. I really hope everyone else will follow your example. ^.~ Myself included, of course.)

Winter Wind sounds a little bit like something from the Super Mario Bros' (NES) Castle Levels, where you'd dodge those rotating sticks of fire and fireballs. Pretty awesome. Yeah, we can/should do some snow in some places, but there's also a lot of lava near the south. The snow will be along the middle of the eastern portions of the map. The Northeast is primarily (And vastly so.) blackenned and charred, though not necessarily by fire. So the southeast is mostly volcanic, and the northeast is mostly charred, and everything else "eastwards" in the mountains is snow, due to its very high elevation. The bases of the mountain(s) will be much less cold. (And then some.)

_L_ 03 Nov 2006, 17:58

ShadowTiger wrote:Erm... Care to elaborate on the underlined part? (Just out of curiosity, really.) I think that this was exactly what I was thinking. 😛
I expected you to expect the mountain to be expanded off the south boundary of Map 5, and thus into the north of Map elsewhere.

P.S: A bit of lore I dreamed up just now: in ancient times Mt. Frostburn (tentative name, others welcome) was the stronghold of the ancient master wizzrobe,Grymwald. It was created not by the flow of nature but by powerful magic (see also: Kefka, FF6) which forced the Earth itself to grow wrathful and spout its blood at the sky in rage. At its summit shone the Triforce of Power, the power of which allowed Grymwald and his magical kinsmen to imprison the Great Fairies of magic, nature and the elements, and thus become true masters of the world. That is, until Grymwald's eventual surrender to the First King of Hyrule released the Great Fairies. The Triforce of Power was then divided between the eight intelligent races: Humans, Deku, Fairies (includes Kokiri), Moblins (includes Goriyas and whatever race the Darknuts are), Lynels, Gorons, Zoras, and Subrosians. Tokays appeared later in Hyrule's history.)

More than a few hundred years later, Dim reunited the eight (or less) pieces of the Triforce of Power to defeat Saraifour, and twenty years later Miro defeated King Dim and took the Triforce of Power for himself. As Miro's allegiance was always to Calatia and not to Hyrule, he shattered it into more than a hundred pieces, such that it could seemingly never be reformed.

But somehow, over the twenty years that passed between then and now, it has been gathered and carried, piece by piece, back to its original seat at the peak of Mt. Frostburn, where a certain guild of Wizzrobes have noted that the monarchy of Hyrule has disintegrated, and in its absense plan to use the Triforce to regain mastery of the world. However, although the Triforce of Power has just now been completely reformed, the taint of Chaos has interfered with their plans, rendering the Triforce of Power dangerous and unusable.

Sephiroth 15 Nov 2006, 20:27

Sephiroth wrote:Quick question for _L_.

... Exactly HOW did you generate that map without a mapmaker program? O_o;


*bump*

_L_, you never did answer my question.. How did you generate that map without a mapmaker program? O_o;

_L_ 16 Nov 2006, 00:48

Umm... multiple screenshots of View Map in Windowed mode, joined together in AppleWorks Paint?

Anthus 18 Nov 2006, 15:17

Wow, _L_, you're pretty good with overworlds. I've always liked that concept you have there. With the very basic outline of the classic overworld with a contemporary touch of new stuff 😉

I can't wait until this quest is done. This is a dumb question, but will this still be an "open source" quest?

ShadowTiger 18 Nov 2006, 18:17

Not a single thing in NeoFirst will be "withheld" from public use. Not. One. Thing. That's why I had originally wanted to use completely custom materials, (At least in terms of midis. 😛 ) But that was sort of ruled out, so we can use VGMidis now.

If you've got anything to contribute, it's never too late. 😊

Aliem 18 Nov 2006, 22:37

That is quite possibly the best thing I have ever seen. Now I've got something to look forward to 😉

_L_ 19 Nov 2006, 08:38

ShadowTiger wrote:Not a single thing in NeoFirst will be "withheld" from public use. Not. One. Thing. That's why I had originally wanted to use completely custom materials, (At least in terms of midis. 😛 ) But that was sort of ruled out, so we can use VGMidis now.

Important rule: only VGMIDIs from Zelda games.

Also, don't use any "leitmotifs" (songs with highly specific context attached, like Ballad of the Wind Fish) out of context.

But, you can use leitmotifs if it's in context (for example, Ice Volvagia could have the OoT "Death Mountain boss" music, or possibly the Zelda 2 boss music. However, take note: NeoFirst's Zelda hates lullabies.)

Also, all four major bosses get their own homebrew themes. Lord Menace maybe gets two.

Currently I'm thinking of using this for the randomly generated desert area. And this for the remaining minibosses.

ShadowTiger 24 Nov 2006, 00:44

I don't think so, really. Personally though, I'd rather not have too much classical music in it. Not that it's a bad thing, but I'd rather it sound more epic than nostalgic, audiolly. (Not a word, but whatever.)

I was looking in the lower right corner of what I got from Saffith, (The entire .qst file with his Cave work.) as it's the latest version I've received as of yet, and I noticed something interesting that I don't think was there before. There is a Color Cycling Palette 14, which fades immediately to black and remains there. Did anyone intend this for something? Otherwise I'll just remove it in any future version(s) I come across.

Oh, I also want to create a bunch of new Z items. Just because we can, really. :shrug: Any thoughts? .. eh, I'll start another thread for it.