Tips to making a good quest:

5. Plan it out on paper before even opening ZQuest.

6. Try to make it unique, different enough from the usual quest so as to sustain player interest.

7. Humor is a good ingredient too, but don't make it over-powering. The quest comes first.

I personally suggest beta testing the quest yourself, with maybe 1 or 2 people. You don't have to rely on others too much to help find bugs, and you can evaluate the decisions you're making on your quest(a whole group of people can't always be right).

Try and go with a pre-designed tileset. This is more of a habit former, as if you start a quest with your own tileset from scratch, chances are you may not finish it(look at PZC, you'll notice a certain few people are still finishing their respective quests, despite multiple revamps).

Start out simple, and if possible, keep it simple. You know how long it takes for long custom boss'd quests to be released? Finishing your quest might take so long, you may be taking more breaks than actually finishing that 6th level. Don't make things more complicated than they have to be. A good quest can also be a solid one.

And as Jaye said, it wouldn't kill to try something new, like a different way of playing, a new dungeon design, or a different handicap, other than giving the player 3 hearts, having the sword around the corner, and sending the player out in the wilderness.

That's my $0.02.😛

okay, how about 1 heart, only the blue candle and the sword in level 2? 😃 j/k

DarkFlameWolf wrote:okay, how about 1 heart, only the blue candle and the sword in level 2? 😃 j/k

I remember in James Quest 1 I made it that you had to start out with just the Blue Candle (I'm sure the Veterans knew about it) Yeah, everyone likes to start with the sword, but sometimes it's too much of a given.

Another tactic: Try not to give the Boomerang too early. I think it's the most broken weapon in the game. One of James's Quest 1's early designs was to keep it away from the player. Both Boomerangs are in there, one in Lv. 6, the other in Lv. 8, but they're tough to find and cost a ton of money.

EDIT: Hey DarkFlameWolf, how about stickying this? So your new quest makers have some tips permanently and the long-timers can contribute over time. Just a thought.

-James

Yeah, they render a lot of enemies pushovers. I guess that's what C-Dawg thought in Dreams of Yesterday too(he made you go through part of a level with just that).😛

I don't know if this should go here or not, but I suppose that half of every good quest, is making sure it's bug-free. So in order to do so, I've constructed a handy little guide with which to help you test people's quests. 😊 You can then make them a less buggy environment, and more playable. Quest.. made... better. Boom. (Or, if this doesn't apply, you can slice this thread. Because otherwise, I would have probably put this in the wrong forum anyway. :sweat: 🙄

For those of you who are testing other people's quests, there should be a certain method to follow to make both your lives, and the quest maker's life a little easier. First of all, how many of you think that this should be pinned? I would be more than happy to do it. I just want a census first.

Setup:
1. Create a separate folder inside your ZC folder on the hard drive. This makes organization much easier.

2. This is merely a sub-note of #1. Copy and paste the ZC files, (zelda.exe, etc.) .. Well, actually, copy the ZIP files they came from, the .exe files that unzip the files to the designated folder. Copy THOSE, along with that the ZC Support Archive. Unzip all those, and make your own zelda station directly for that quest alone. This also means that any screenshots of bugs that you make, (F12) will end up in that folder.

Snapping Photos:
3. When you play the quest, if you see a bug that you have to report, or something which seems out of the ordinary, press F12 to take a screenshot of the scene. If you had followed steps 1 and 2, the file SHOULD have popped up in that same folder, and is easily recognizable.

File Organization:
4. Organizing your bug reports can be a big hassle, but you'll see the results when they're all done. First of all, get a program like IRFanview. If you have an average computer, (I have a PII 300 MHZ PC, and it works quite well.) the image should load quickly, and it'll save you quite a bit of hassle.

5. (This point isn't so much as a step, as an explanation of step #6.) When organizing your files, you should probably classify them in terms of what kind of error they are. This has two major advantages. It separates them into the kind of bugs which need to be fixed, and which don't need to be fixed. There are a few kinds of bugs that there are to report. I'll explain each below.

• MAJOR - Impedes the player's progress severely. These are the most important bugs.
• Minor - Similar to the above, but the player can finish the game even with those in.
• Graphic - When there's something which doesn't look right, such as a grass edge on a stairs, in a desert.
• Layer - If you can walk under something that you're not supposed to be able to. Also applies to graphic errors on layers.
• Scrolling - If you scroll to the next screen, and you get stuck in a wall.
• Text / String - There's something wrong with the text, or a spelling or grammer error.
• Undercombo - Fairly self explanatory. Any undercombo that isn't what it's expected to be.
• Warp - A tile or side warp that doesnt' lead to where it's supposed to be, or doesn't do anything at all.
• Walkability - This area is unwalkable for some reason. This probably has to do with layers, but they're 2 separate things.
• Combo - The wrong kind of combo is used, or there's a strange type of combo there for no real reason.

6. When you're done with the testing for the moment, go to your folder you set up. Go to zelda001.bmp, and open it up. See what it is. Depending on the kind of error that it was, close the file, and click once to highlight the file, then click again on that same file to rename it. (DO NOT double click. It opens it. Do a click, ... click.) So rename it to the type of error which it was, then place a number of the occurrance of the error next to it, such as Undercombo 1, and the next file is called Undercombo 2, and the next file is called Layer 1, etc.

7. If you wanted to be really nice to the quest author, you would crop out the image to remove the stat bar (life, magic, keys, etc.) on top of every screen. This isn't at all necessary though.

8. Zip up the file, and put it up somewhere to store, like http://www.filespace.org or www.freewebz.com to keep. Then, either PM the file to the quest author, or put the file where the quest author tells you to. Hope this helps. 😉 Good luck with your quests.

Excellent points Brittanhero. I remember some quests where I just could not find the damn bug no matter how hard I looked for it.

I think we should keep it coming.

-James

Thanks, James. 😉 (Call me Josh, or BH4. o_o .. Thank you.) Perhaps we can expand on this Quest-Tip thread, and turn it into a forum? It's -very- effective over at PureZC. You can check it out Here. 😊 I think that my idea really rolled to a good place. I hope AGN can do something similar! ^_^

To be honest, to have a good quest, don't worry much on what you think that other people want, but make it a quest that YOU yourself would enjoy playing day in and day out. I design video games for a living, and in my line of work, more often than not, if you design a game for yourself, people like it more. when it comes to bugs, my tactic is that if I'm going to try something I haven't done before, I make a little dummy quest file and design the room/dungeon/OW spot I'm trying out as the beginning of the "game" so i can easily find whatever bugs there are. this really helps for trying new things out in like say the last dungeons, without having to quest through everything just for one little thing.

Also, write down all the areas in your quest you're not sure will work correctly and check them before a release of any sort!

Just two words: Keep updated. This means keeping track of the latest version of Zelda Classic. I have played a couple games that had major bugs in them because they were created for older versions (I currently use version 2.10). If it makes no sense to start the designs of an engine designed for a Model T when more fuel-efficient cars are available, then it makes no sense to begin from scratch using ZeldaQuest 1.00 when 2.10 is available. Use the most recent version when you start.

Of course, I understand that quest building takes a long time, and during that long time, or even afterwards, a new version might come out. If case this happens, indicate which version you used to construct your quest. If a new version of Zelda Classic comes out after your quest is made, test your quest, or have your quest tested, using the latest version to check for major bugs. If any exist, try to update your quest (if you can do so without a lot of trouble).

Ehh, I kind of agree with you, boram, but then again, I don't. I would make a quest in 2.10 right now, if it didn't have SO MANY bugs. Especially the music/sfx bug which I just HAVE to have the sound muted to be able to play. Music is definately a big part of my questing experience, so not having it just really takes me out of the quest. I'm hoping the bug fix version, which is supposedly being worked on right now, is released soon, otherwise I am going to make my quest in version 1.92. Which is disappointing for me, because I want to use all the items/etc. version 2.10 offers. Anyway, what I'm getting at here is, I think it's excusable to use the most recent STABLE version of Zquest to make a quest as long as the newest version is, well, unstable enough. Which I think in this case, 2.10 definately is.

Boram, the problem with using the latest version is that it is highly unstable (I can't even get 2.10 to run on my computer). So using 1.92 vs 2.10 should really be a matter of whether the quest maker wants to deal with all the version 2.10 bugs. I started, and will finish my quest in 1.92 because it is a stable version. Yes, I would love to use the new items and such, but to put it in your analogy, it would be much better to design and create that model T that someone can drive and not worry about it, then to have a newer fuel efficient piece of junk that falls apart on you after 100 miles.

I am just saying that it is unwise to use a superanuated version to create your quest (1.84 should be a thing in the past by now). Once the issues with 2.10 are fixed, there will be no more excuses, but for now, it should be okay to use the most updated stable version.

I'm a little curious as to why you're pointing out version 1.84, since I'm unaware of any recently released quests that are version 1.84. All the quests I've seen are either version 2.10, 1.92 beta 184, or 1.92 beta 183.

Rakki wrote:I'm a little curious as to why you're pointing out version 1.84, since I'm unaware of any recently released quests that are version 1.84. All the quests I've seen are either version 2.10, 1.92 beta 184, or 1.92 beta 183.

Nightmare wrote:Another tactic: Try not to give the Boomerang too early. I think it's the most broken weapon in the game. One of James's Quest 1's early designs was to keep it away from the player. Both Boomerangs are in there, one in Lv. 6, the other in Lv. 8, but they're tough to find and cost a ton of money.

Blonde799 wrote:Yeah, they render a lot of enemies pushovers. I guess that's what C-Dawg thought in Dreams of Yesterday too(he made you go through part of a level with just that).😛

I'll definitely have to agree with that one. My interest in so many games has been killed because you get a Hammer in Level 1 and then everything is easy.

Another tip for questmakers... Unless you are using a lot of Death Knights, Mirror Wizzrobes, and Cracktoroks, avoid giving the Gold Ring. It makes most games way too easy. (With a few excpetions, such as Demo EX)

Love For Fire wrote:Another tip for questmakers... Unless you are using a lot of Death Knights, Mirror Wizzrobes, and Cracktoroks, avoid giving the Gold Ring. It makes most games way too easy. (With a few excpetions, such as Demo EX)

boram_c wrote:Some people made them. When I tested them with a 1.92, they did not work, and eventually did not make it here on this website. (These guys were working outside of ZeldaClassic using ZeldaClassic's software and have yet to update their stuff.) I told them that 1.92 was available, but none were willing to improve their quests.

I agree about the things said about the Boomerang and Hammer. In fact, two quests I've been playing lately, one of them gives you the Boomerang in the ENTRANCE of Level 1, and the other gives you the Boomerang AND the Hookshot(which can freeze Darknuts, among other things, and makes Bats pretty much a pushover) in Level 1, and then gives you the hammer in Level 2! Actually, that one that gives you the boomerang in the first room of Level 1 also gives you the Hammer in Level 2, I think. Jeez. Not that I mean anything by this, but can't people be a little more creative?

The sword is another thing I'd like to see people do more with. It's constantly just GIVEN to the player. I have seen more quests lately, though, that make you work for the sword, having to dodge enemies till you get the BOOMERANG and then having to go kill Keese or such to get to the sword, but again, that gives you the Boomerang really early, so you can freeze a lot of enemies to kill them easily later on. In the quest I'm working on, I'm planning on not having the sword till a good half hour into the game, and even then, that's all you'll have, you won't get the boomerang or anything like that to kill Keese/Bats to get to the sword. It's pretty much a puzzle dungeon, to get the sword.

I agree. This current quest i'm making is gonna be extremely challenging. It'll be so challenging, one dungeon will consist of a grand total of 25+ cracktorocks, 40+ stalfos 3's and so forth.

Yes, only put the gold ring in your quest if you use a lot of difficult enemies.

Wow. I'm not sure if I even want to TRY that quest, Mike. ^_^; Although the Cracktorocks aren't NEARLY as bad as Death Knights... *Shivers*

Boomerangs make Stalfos 3's pushovers unless there's a large number of them. Cracktorocks actually die in one hit if you deflect there shot with the mirror shield.

I had no idea the Hook-shot froze Darknuts AND Wizzrobes... I wouldn'tve given it in Level 2. My problem was I planned the levels thematically, and that was the only place I could think of to put it.

Although the hook-shot may be the only thing saving some people in my game 😉

I don't know if I wanna do that many, but i'm definitely following these tips

Love For Fire wrote:Boomerangs make Stalfos 3's pushovers unless there's a large number of them. Cracktorocks actually die in one hit if you deflect there shot with the mirror shield.

I had no idea the Hook-shot froze Darknuts AND Wizzrobes... I wouldn'tve given it in Level 2. My problem was I planned the levels thematically, and that was the only place I could think of to put it.

Although the hook-shot may be the only thing saving some people in my game 😉

And yes, if you hit them from the side or back, or sometimes if they're facing towards you when your hookshot is returning so it hits them in the back, it'll freeze Darknuts. Funny, I didn't realize it freezes Wizzrobes, lol.

Ironically, and probably seemingly hypocritically, you're going to need the hookshot to complete the "first" dungeon in my quest, to get your first(or what should be your first) "triforce piece"(for lack of a better 8-pieces object at this time). Oh, but did I forget to mention? You don't get the hookshot in that dungeon. 😉 There'll be some backtracking in my quest for sure, hehe.

On a similar note to my earlier suggestion not to provide the Hammer too early, do not provide the Wand before the player can obtain the Sword Lvl2 (unless you have the player fight mostly Wizrobes and other enemies immune to physical hits from the Wand). Otherwise, a player could use the Wand in place of the Sword Lvl1 before obtaining Sword Lvl2.

Yeah I agree. I see the hammer as an early item in the game. You should be able to get it so early.
I try to say away from the temptation of using the hammer all the time when it's the treasure of the second/third dungeon.
The only problem is that it's so slow...

Please, please, PLEASE do NOT over use the screen transition "Insta-warp with Wave effects". It's partially broken, it can close the game sometimes while it's happening. It's caused me to have to do a bunch of things over and over and over in a few quests already cause that's like, the ONLY transition the author decided to use. It is SO annoying having to save so often, not knowing whether or not you'll make it through the next warp/to the next area. And I guarentee it'll deter people from finishing your quest. It's making me want to quit the one I'm playing right now, which I won't mention the name of. Now I'm not saying don't use it at all, because it is quite a cool effect, but just try to watch how many times you use it... At least until it's fixed(which I have mentioned that it's broke before).

TIP: The story line must be good! Check out the wind waker, all of these plot twists, every quest I have seen is sooo predictable! Most are just find the triforce and save zelda! And others that have "original" story lines are more boring thanthe minish cap! :mad2:

and i've noticed every single quest iv'e played has aquamentus as the first boss. i think dodongo makes a good first boss 😃