Fifth Quest Planning and Discussion

[SUCCESSOR]

Somewhat, yes. The hookshot has different things it can do that the boomerang can't, and vice versa. But also, in my personal opinion, the items used in a given quest help to determine the overall feel of the game. If we're trying to make a game that is a successor to the original NES game, and we're touting it as the "fifth quest", I think it should be kept (mostly) within the constraints of what the NES game was capable, the whole point of a "second quest" is that it's supposed to be the SAME game, but with altered item placement, dungeons and harder enemies. You add the hookshot, then you HAVE to redesign the overworld to accommodate it, and that WOULD, in my opinion, change the feel of the game.

There would be a [very] small impact on gameplay if the hookshot was swapped with the boomerang. You don't have to redesign the overworld to accommodate the hookshot and doing so wasn't part of the hypothetical situation I asked you about. The only change is the item swap. There are no boomerang triggers in Z1 and it isn't required to defeat any enemies. The Nth quests have continued in the tradition of 1st and 2nd but have also become more lenient to fit in with more modern ZC quests. Letting 5th quest entrants have the ability to alter or 86 staple Z1 items that have little effect on gameplay is just fine in my book. The boomerang, red candle, and wand only serve to make the game accessible to beginners and people with little skill without being overly difficult. This is why many skilled players consider these items to be almost game-breaking.

Besides, the same argument could be said about if people nerf weapons or place them too late in the game to be useful. If they do that, people won't vote for the game, cuz it's not fun.

That is a decision they will have to make isn't it? You can make strict rules about items but it will only discourage possible participants or have them looking for loopholes. Fun in your book might mean "too easy" but some people like a fair challenge and the absence of overpowered items.

[Nightmare]

My quote from my roommate:

"If it was in the NES, it should be in the 5th Quest and follow the NES"

This comes from a player.

-James

[SUCCESSOR]

My quote from my roommate:

"If it was in the NES, it should be in the 5th Quest and follow the NES"

This comes from a player.

-James

Tell your roommate that if he isn't a registered and active member of AGN his opinion doesn't matter. >

[Gleeok]

How about this then: No.

Items
New items are also allowed. Adding a variant to an existing item is likely okay. Adding the spin attack, Din's Fire, or a scripted Flamethrower is not.

Specific Item Rules
* No editing the "Dust Pile" item or the "Big Triforce" item.
* No Bomb Bags. Use the "More Bombs" Room Type exclusively. The only exception is the Magic Bomb Bag which provides endless bombs, which functions like the Magic Key and is allowed.
* Weapons cannot slash, nor produce sparkles.

Granted, this was not exactly entirely clear on the matter. It only said "Adding a variant to an existing item is likely okay", which didn't outright say you couldn't remove said item from existence.

Items
New items are also allowed provided they are used sparingly and with extreme prejudice[1]. Adding a variant to an existing item is likely okay provided it is in line with NES mechanics. Adding the spin attack, Din's Fire, or a scripted Flamethrower is not okay. Replacing existing items with another item type is not allowed.

Better?

[CJC]

Okay then (so much for using the bait as a bludgeon!).


I'll find a different way to restrict secret access until certain dungeons are cleared. I recommend others do the same (If anybody else had ideas that were rendered ineligible because of this declaration, fret not! You can still use them in the "Brave New World" quest contest or a collaborative 'close to NES' quest)

[Gleeok]

There are still tons of ways to restrict access to places:
Bait, Ladder, Raft, Bracelet, Bow, Wand(or potion), Whistle, Magic Key, Candle, Triforce, etc. That's already one for each Level right there!

Also you might not want the quest too linear. Having to do all the levels in order is lame! Sometimes protecting items with lots of strong enemies is just as effective!

[CJC]

There are still tons of ways to restrict access to places:
Bait, Ladder, Raft, Bracelet, Bow, Wand(or potion), Whistle, Magic Key, Candle, Triforce, etc. That's already one for each Level right there!

Also you might not want the quest too linear. Having to do all the levels in order is lame! Sometimes protecting items with lots of strong enemies is just as effective!

Well, I was talking more about 'Heart or Potion' rooms on the overworld, but okay. You've given me another idea which may be better.


What's the idea, you ask? Well...
It's a secret to everybody!

[Nightmare]

Tell your roommate that if he isn't a registered and active member of AGN his opinion doesn't matter. >

How about this then: No.

Items
New items are also allowed. Adding a variant to an existing item is likely okay. Adding the spin attack, Din's Fire, or a scripted Flamethrower is not.

Specific Item Rules
* No editing the "Dust Pile" item or the "Big Triforce" item.
* No Bomb Bags. Use the "More Bombs" Room Type exclusively. The only exception is the Magic Bomb Bag which provides endless bombs, which functions like the Magic Key and is allowed.
* Weapons cannot slash, nor produce sparkles.

Granted, this was not exactly entirely clear on the matter. It only said "Adding a variant to an existing item is likely okay", which didn't outright say you couldn't remove said item from existence.

New items are also allowed provided they are used sparingly and with extreme prejudice[1]. Adding a variant to an existing item is likely okay provided it is in line with NES mechanics. Adding the spin attack, Din's Fire, or a scripted Flamethrower is not okay. Replacing existing items with another item type is not allowed.

Better?

I think that was my point. From a player's perspective they're expecting an NES quest with NES items.

This is also why I think we should've done a custom quest contest instead of a 5th, but oh well. Guess that's what "Brave New World" is for.

-James

[Gleeok]

Simple poll: Either say "yes", or "no", and please be honest.


Just getting a rough idea of how many entries there will be in order to figure out the fairest and most reasonable method of judging them. Right now judges are in short supply, so a community review and voting process would seem like a good way to help choose the top xx percentile of entries and also help choose the winner if there are more than what would be reasonable otherwise. After all, the quest is by the community, for the community, so I think that it is only fair they get a vote. Of course, anyone is free to help improve this process as well, so feel free to post your suggestions here as well.

[Gleeok]

This is also why I think we should've done a custom quest contest instead of a 5th, but oh well. Guess that's what "Brave New World" is for.

One problem is that a good custom quest with all the bells and whistles could take years. It just doesn't make for a good contest because it is an almost impossible task for one person. By comparison, a (many) good 5th quest(s) is totally doable in a reasonable amount of time, and because the tools are all rudimentary and easy to use ZQuest features, it can be a fun and not all-consuming experience as well.

Take a look at neofirst, which was in development since 2006, and that may or may not be completed anytime soon.