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View Poll Results: Do you plan on making a 5th entry?

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  • Yes

    10 58.82%
  • No

    7 41.18%
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Thread: Fifth Quest Planning and Discussion

  1. #61
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    This is a good reason why the rules need to save people from themselves. :/ ...Removal of the boomerang is certain to make people not like this quest, and technically the hookshot doesn't add much except a lame "you need item to cross" gimmick. The flippers....erm,,might be nice....or not. On a tactical level they are extremely annoying since instead of otherwise using the ladder you are now in water and cannot attack...
    While I am not particularly fond of the hookshot or the flippers there is currently nothing in the rules against using them or removing NES items from being accessible in the quest. Are you suggesting we add that to the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    We probably should. We could reserve a room on the OW for secrets which no entrants can use, except for writing "RESERVED".
    While I think adding a screen for DN is a great idea, I don't think we should force it on entrants. I like what c-a-d said about using DarkNation or DN to access the quest or maybe DarkN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    To remedy this I'm thinking of a possible joint judging process. The entrants are publicly released and after a period of months, are voted by the community as well as official judges. In order for this to be fair, there needs to be options for: "Completed", "Played Most Of", "Played Some", "Didn't Play", as well as various categories relevant to the 5th.
    I like the idea of a hybrid system of dedicated judges and community voting(which you know because I suggested just such a method to you in chat). Maybe we could merge the two ideas. Each judge awarding their choice a point and each category in community poll awards. Quest with most points wins.

  2. #62
    Octorok Glenn the Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    This is a good reason why the rules need to save people from themselves. :/ ...Removal of the boomerang is certain to make people not like this quest, and technically the hookshot doesn't add much except a lame "you need item to cross" gimmick. The flippers....erm,,might be nice....or not. On a tactical level they are extremely annoying since instead of otherwise using the ladder you are now in water and cannot attack...
    Quote Originally Posted by SUCCESSOR View Post
    While I am not particularly fond of the hookshot or the flippers there is currently nothing in the rules against using them or removing NES items from being accessible in the quest. Are you suggesting we add that to the rules
    My thoughts real quick on some of these item issues:

    Boomerang: I agree that the boomerang should be present (more on that in a bit), but since it trivializes many of the enemies, it might not be a bad idea to bury it a little deeper so that it isn't accessible too soon.

    Hookshot: I'll admit to being a lifelong fan of the hookshot, but I don't really see it as lame.
    The raft and the stepladder are already lame "you need item to cross" gimmicks, but the hookshot serves that purpose and more.
    It makes the stepladder become obsolete in certain situations the same way the book+wand makes the red candle obsolete in certain situations.
    Hookshot is pretty powerful though, so it should probably not be available until later when most of the enemies are immune to the thing.

    Flippers: I just don't feel that the flippers jive well at all with the Z1 style. It would feel weird being able to swim in the eastern ocean where you would need to be forced from swimming off the overworld map, or worse.. colliding onto unwalkable sections upon screen transitions while swimming. I'm not saying to ban it... maybe someone can pull it off well and prove me wrong. I'm just saying I feel very iffy about it.

    Lastly, the idea of not having items from Zelda 1 be present doesn't sit well with me at all.
    What I'm envisioning is some poor quest player whittling away dozens of hours of his or her life trying desperately to find that red candle, or that boomerang, that the quest creator thought would be cool to not include in the game.
    This game has a screen that scrolls down after the title screen advertising all the items... they should all show up somewhere.

    Shattered Earth, coming soon!

    Mappers needed. If you want to help, send a PM to MasterSwordUltima.

  3. #63
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn the Great View Post
    Lastly, the idea of not having items from Zelda 1 be present doesn't sit well with me at all.
    What I'm envisioning is some poor quest player whittling away dozens of hours of his or her life trying desperately to find that red candle, or that boomerang, that the quest creator thought would be cool to not include in the game.
    This game has a screen that scrolls down after the title screen advertising all the items... they should all show up somewhere.
    "NOBODY WANTS THAT STALE OLD MEAT. MAYBE YOU CAN USE IT SOME OTHER WAY."
    Goriya after finding the bait in a dungeon room. If you press the B button with it equipped...


    By which I mean, perhaps we restrict the APPEARANCE of the classic equipment, but not its function.

  4. #64
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn the Great View Post
    Lastly, the idea of not having items from Zelda 1 be present doesn't sit well with me at all.
    What I'm envisioning is some poor quest player whittling away dozens of hours of his or her life trying desperately to find that red candle, or that boomerang, that the quest creator thought would be cool to not include in the game.
    This game has a screen that scrolls down after the title screen advertising all the items... they should all show up somewhere.
    That is for 1st quest. Does that list of items lead you to believe those are all in every custom quest you play?

  5. #65
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    Idea: How many times can you listen to the same 7 measures of the NES dungeon music without going insane? 200 times? 500 times? 5,000 times? How about an NES dungeon midi contest to replace the 3rd - 5th defaults?

    The arrangement should be in the NES style and soundfonts, must start with the NES dungeon theme, and include at the least a B and C section with a coda at the composers discretion, and be at least 3 minutes without loops.

    What do you guys think?
    Would LOVE this. It'd go great for any new stuff.

    -James

    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nightmarejames YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/nightmarejames

    Game Projects
    Zelda Classic:
    Completed: Zelda NES Remastered, Demo 1st Quest, Demo 2nd Quest, James Quest: Remastered (V 2.1), Memorial Quest, New Quest 2 2015. New Quest: Rebuilt
    In development: Demo SP, James Quest: Remastered (V 3.0)t, 6QI

  6. #66
    The Time-Loop Continues ZC Developer
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    Guys, guys. Glenn's point is extremely valid, and essentially similar to something I mentioned on page 2:
    "This is not a custom quest contest, this is a 5th quest contest."

    There is a difference. :tongue2:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Would LOVE this. It'd go great for any new stuff.
    -James
    There's enough musicians and music savvy people in the ZC community where this could actually work I think. I actually did a Zelda Overture of sorts way back in 2005 with symphonic VST sounds.
    This post contains the official Gleeok seal of approval. Look for these and other posts in an area near you.

  7. #67
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    Guys, guys. Glenn's point is extremely valid, and essentially similar to something I mentioned on page 2:
    "This is not a custom quest contest, this is a 5th quest contest."
    That's hardly a point. You think not having a boomerang breaks the NES game more that having say 10 extra custom items? The hookshot adequately replaces the boomerang. forcing the boomerang to be in game forces the quest maker to adjust the subscreen for and and design enemy placement around it when it is unnecessary. What is the difference between the boomerang being stashed in lvl 9 and it being left out?

    Can we avoid unnecessary rules? If someone submits an entry that sucks then it can be rejected or receive no votes. The more unnecessary rules the more people will be put off by this contest. The people interested in this competition will be people who have a very good understanding and love of LoZ gameplay.

  8. #68
    Octorok Binx's Avatar
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    I dunno, personally, I think it's a good point. The second quest may have added SOME things, but it was still essentially the same game. I'm not really sure how you can call it a "fifth quest" if the items aren't the same as the first.
    Please check out my current project, The Legend of Zelda: Trials of the Gods
    http://armageddongames.net/showthrea...ls-of-the-Gods
    Current release: V3.1 (Demo)

  9. #69
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lineas View Post
    I dunno, personally, I think it's a good point. The second quest may have added SOME things, but it was still essentially the same game. I'm not really sure how you can call it a "fifth quest" if the items aren't the same as the first.
    So you are saying if 1st quest had the hookshot instead of the boomerang it would be a completely different game?


    I think instead of forcing a strict rules involving items and such we I think a better option is to let judging keep people on the right path. We already talked about community voting and categories. Something like:

    • Most faithful to NES
    • Most Creative
    • Best overall experience


    This way if someone makes a decision that might lose them a vote in Faithfulness to NES (like leaving out or severely limiting a staple NES item) they'd have to make up for it. Obviously creativity is still limited by the rules.

  10. #70
    Octorok Binx's Avatar
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    Somewhat, yes. The hookshot has different things it can do that the boomerang can't, and vice versa. But also, in my personal opinion, the items used in a given quest help to determine the overall feel of the game. If we're trying to make a game that is a successor to the original NES game, and we're touting it as the "fifth quest", I think it should be kept (mostly) within the constraints of what the NES game was capable, the whole point of a "second quest" is that it's supposed to be the SAME game, but with altered item placement, dungeons and harder enemies. You add the hookshot, then you HAVE to redesign the overworld to accommodate it, and that WOULD, in my opinion, change the feel of the game.


    Besides, the same argument could be said about if people nerf weapons or place them too late in the game to be useful. If they do that, people won't vote for the game, cuz it's not fun.
    Please check out my current project, The Legend of Zelda: Trials of the Gods
    http://armageddongames.net/showthrea...ls-of-the-Gods
    Current release: V3.1 (Demo)

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