My Shameless self playthough of Zelda 3: The Return of Gannon

[ZoriaRPG]

Grinding isn't only restricted to the blue ring, there's the bow and arrow too.
[...]

Zoria - I've played plenty of old Nintendo games, Zelda is the only game I know of that uses secrets to hide things essential to game completion without any hint of where it is. Care to name others?

Covering 1985 through 1987:

Bokusuka Wars
Bubble Bobble
Challenger
Dracula II: Norio no Fuuin (CV2)
Getsu Fuuma-den
Goonies II
Gun.Smoke
Higemaru Makaijima - Nanatsu no Shima Daibouken
Ikki
King Kong 2: Ikari no Megaton Punch
Majou Densetsu II: The Maze of Galious
Makaimura (Ghosts and Goblins)
Meikyuu Kumikyoku (Milon's Secret Castle)
Metroid
Section Z
Super Pitfall
Super Xevious
Tower of Druaga
Zelda no Densetsu
Zelda II

I may have missed some.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Quite a few actually, but the most extreme example would be Milon's Secret Castle. Guide Dang It is the ENTIRE GAME.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Level 10:

[Dimentio]

One problem I've noticed is how un-zelda like your quest appears to be, especially in regards to Z1 and Z2. Using Z1 graphics also confuses me, as isn't this supposed to be a sequel to Z2? Why are you tossing out all the graphical advancements that game made and going back to the outline-less objects, un-animated overworld, et cetera?

Even though I consider LttP to be the *real* Z3 in every aspect, if we're talking about an NES Z1-Z2-styled Zelda 3, then IMO The Legend of Link (the romhack) is the only real contender for it. I mean there's also outlands, but honestly that's a bit garbage.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

One problem I've noticed is how un-zelda like your quest appears to be, especially in regards to Z1 and Z2. Using Z1 graphics also confuses me, as isn't this supposed to be a sequel to Z2? Why are you tossing out all the graphical advancements that game made and going back to the outline-less objects, un-animated overworld, et cetera?

Even though I consider LttP to be the *real* Z3 in every aspect, if we're talking about an NES Z1-Z2-styled Zelda 3, then IMO The Legend of Link (the romhack) is the only real contender for it. I mean there's also outlands, but honestly that's a bit garbage.

Look, I get it, you don't like it, you are entitled to that opinion. But for fuck's sake, it's a ZC quest, it's NOT going to be like Zelda 2. Lttp is NOT Zelda 3, it is set BEFORE Zelda 1.

Now fuck off and quit derailing my topic, it is here to showcase me playing through my quest, not for you to nitpick and bitch.

[ZoriaRPG]

The only thing that bothers me, is that I constantly confuse your posts about it, with Z3 (LTTP/Kamigami no Triforce); which is what you'll see with any google search for 'Zelda 3', and the most recognised title of the game.

Heceforth, I alt-title it, Zelda Tsugi no Shou: Damuzukashii Bpuken


「ガノンのさいらい」 'Ganon no Sairai' would be the literal translation of your title.
Pretty much, Revival of Ganon.

[James24]

Anarchy, the whole reason why there is nit-picking and bitching is precisely due to your playthrough. I wouldn't have remembered why I quit playing your quest in the first place if I hadn't seen your videos. People are just voicing what they think after having seen your playthrough that's all.


As for arbitrary secrets...

Zelda 2 had secrets which were essential to game completion? Are you serious? If I recall rightly, all palaces were in the open except 6. Palace 3 required a walk through the graveyard but there was a clear hint in Mido village about south of King's cross. Palace 6 required a flute to be blown at the right spot but there was a clear hint about triple eye rock. There was also a village which you needed to hammer a particular tree but there was a hint about people having fled from the deserted town.

There was also a hidden wall in palace 5 which was essential to finding the flute but once again there was a hint in one of the villages about a fake wall. I don't recall any secret that is necessary to its completion AND no hints AND requires arbitrary searching.

Bubble Bobble - its theoretically possible to do one level after another to reach 100.

Metroid - Ok yes this had some arbitrary secrets but anything which dealt damage can trigger them which made it far easier to search. You'll also note that in later Metroid titles, there was a tool that assisted with secret searching which means that Nintendo acknowledged that this could have been improved upon - just like the lens of truth.

Ghosts and Goblins - one of the hardest games ever but I don't recall any secrets in it that are necessary for completion.

I haven't played all the other games on your list but if I were to name all the games I've played that don't have secrets I'm pretty sure I'd generate a longer list than that. Secrets or no secrets there's also the big elephant in the room. Players might be willing to search and spend their time looking for Nintendo secrets because Nintendo is the official developer and a game from them is really rare. But they won't spend their time looking for fan-made secrets because, well, there are many, many
fan-made Zelda quests. If you don't like a particular fan-made quest you just move on to the next.

[Dimentio]

Lttp is NOT Zelda 3

Neither is your quest xD

It's calling itself Zelda 3, yet uses inferior graphics to Zelda 2? No excuse, especially when high quality NES-esque tilesets exist in ZC. Let's also be honest, the dungeons seem to play nothing like the dungeons from Z1 and Z2. Honestly, what it seems you did is take your regular, generic ZC quest, fill it up with random enemy spam, and call it Zelda 3 to get some attention. It's not clever like LoH or Armageddon Quest, it's just a bunch of bullshit spammed without any thought or reason, and both of those quests actually *tried* to look better than your average ZC quest.

Maybe I'm just a type A player? I liked Armageddon Quest slightly more than Liberation due to the exploration and non-linearity of Armageddon's world, so maybe?

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Yeah, cus Megaman 9 and 10 never happened.

ENOGUH of this, if you don't like my quest, you are entitled to that opinion, even start a new topic about it and I may even engage you in a civil debate, but I'm DONE seeing a playthrough topic derailed by nitpicks and philosophical "well because X, you should have Y". If you want to know why I did things a certain why or why I didn't, great, I'll discuss that IN ANOTHER TOPIC, not here.

[James24]

Careful Dimentio, you are starting to sound more and more like a type A player with your focus on graphics. To be honest, it would make very little difference to me if Armageddon used the original NES tileset. And if OUCH! had gone for a very small overworld with almost no exploration needed that would be fine with me too. Only type A players are affected by things like that and if you're not going to try and woo them over then why bother? You know how much quest-making time it saves by having just a small overworld like LoH:IE??

I only used the updated tilesets in LoH and LoH:IE because they were very easy to obtain and for this small investment I got a quest that looks much, much better. As a type B player, even I must admit that DoR tilesets beat the original NES tilesets hands-down. The type A players certainly have their graphics, looks and appearances all figured out.

Lastly Anarchy, the criticisms that I'm making won't take very long to implement if you choose to make them - and these criticisms are coming from a type B player. The entrance to fortress 2 can be simply an open cave instead of a hidden one. The grinding can be replaced by making those items for free in exchange for winning a very challenging fight. You can grind if you're type A but if you're one of us type B players you can fight this very difficult challenge and win it for free... For a very small investment you'd be opening up your quest to a lot of type B players who I'm sure feel the same way as I do.

I'm not asking you to change the difficulty. That would take too long and I'd be asking you to do a job which you had no satisfaction with in the end. Plus, the difficulty of your first dungeon is pretty good and doesn't need to change. Just fix the small things which don't take too long and I'm pretty sure that this will be a good type B quest.