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Thread: AngelScript: The Revenge

  1. #31
    The Timelord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamamo View Post
    Oh no I'm very serious, one project that has done incredible things with lua is Starbound which also uses JSON along with it and was created to be moddable from the bottom up. This is the sort of approach we need to take when implementing a new language, in fact I'd rather just rewrite zc from scratch. But ya'll too damn lazy for that.
    Well, this is what I have suggested as the proper course of action, post-2.6, several times; and nobody even responds to it. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by SUCCESSOR View Post
    Lua is gross, though. What advantage would it have over AS? Atleast AS is somewhat similar to ZScript. I think that is a big factor in it being the right choice. Most people who script in ZC aren't programmers. They only learn what they need of ZScript and would probably be scared off by something so ... different.
    Ah, so I'm not the only one that finds Lua to be a bit awful? Really, it's one of the main reasons that I haven't made a Solarus quest--every flipping thing is coded in Lua. You can't do a blasted thing, without coding it as a Lua block, other than place graphics, which are read form a text file listing all of them, into the Lua engine.

  2. #32
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    I haven't used AS, but I like the look of it. And it weirdness, like it's handling of references, I could get used to and I understand why they are that way.

  3. #33
    The Time-Loop Continues ZC Developer
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    I also kind of hate Lua and Python; just can't stand them.

    My personal coding style produces mainly small but easily caught (most at compile-time) and easily fixable errors that are usually obvious at a first debugging pass in the case something doesn't work. For me functional languages actually mean dysfunctional--I don't need or want dynamically typed code that just silently fails and doesn't help you where it seems to matter.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    I also kind of hate Lua and Python; just can't stand them.

    My personal coding style produces mainly small but easily caught (most at compile-time) and easily fixable errors that are usually obvious at a first debugging pass in the case something doesn't work. For me functional languages actually mean dysfunctional--I don't need or want dynamically typed code that just silently fails and doesn't help you where it seems to matter.
    I'm personally not a huge fan of forced indentation scoping. It's easy to copy/paste through some medium, lose your indentation, and be entirely #^#%ed.

    This is one of the things that Ruby did right. That, and a lot of other things, but that's a topic for another day, and as I have no practical application for anything outside of cpp at present, ...

    The funny thing, is that I was once accustomed to indentation coping, and now, I can't stand it, because braces do not suffer the loss of tabbing issue.

  5. #35
    Keese
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    I also kind of hate Lua and Python; just can't stand them.

    My personal coding style produces mainly small but easily caught (most at compile-time) and easily fixable errors that are usually obvious at a first debugging pass in the case something doesn't work. For me functional languages actually mean dysfunctional--I don't need or want dynamically typed code that just silently fails and doesn't help you where it seems to matter.
    I'm not sure why you brought up functional languages (and I wouldn't really consider python as one), and then instead complained about dynamic typing?

    I generally view it as a tradeoff. I mean, it's nice being able to detect a certain class of errors ahead of time, but for most of those you'll quickly detect them during runtime. And if you're doing a big project, you shouldn't be relying on the compiler for correctness anyway. So, it's at the point where I can't clearly say that one is better than the other.

  6. #36
    The Time-Loop Continues ZC Developer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayswandir View Post
    I'm not sure why you brought up functional languages (and I wouldn't really consider python as one), and then instead complained about dynamic typing?

    I generally view it as a tradeoff. I mean, it's nice being able to detect a certain class of errors ahead of time, but for most of those you'll quickly detect them during runtime. And if you're doing a big project, you shouldn't be relying on the compiler for correctness anyway. So, it's at the point where I can't clearly say that one is better than the other.
    Because both Python and Lua boast to be "multi-paradigm" and let you write functional code. Both Lua and Python are also dynamically-typed languages and claim to be. Not even my words, but theirs.

    You missed my point. For my personal style, most of my stupid errors (bugs in dynamic languages, if you will) are caught at compile time meaning that I don't even have to run the thing to find out I messed up some parameter or whatever. Therefore, I prefer to work with statically-typed code. That's just my preference. :)
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  7. #37
    The Time-Loop Continues ZC Developer
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    Let's talk about the AS syntax really quick.

    Code:
    //note: code is gibberish, it doesn't do anything.
    
    //HANDLES
    void Foo(Ref@ ref) //option A:
    {
      @ref = @Ref.Create(); //points to a new thingy.
      ref = otherRef; // now it value copies other thingy. whoops.
    }
    
    // confused yet? ...well then:
    
    void Foo(Ref ref) //option B:
    {
      ref = Ref.Create(); //points to a new thingy.
      ref = otherRef; // now it POINTS to other thingy instead.
    }
    
    int e = Enum::Value;
    int i = A::B::Value; 
    int v = this.Value;
    int x = Object.Value;
    Link::X = x;
    
    ..confused again?
    
    int e = Enum.Value;
    int i = A.B.Value; 
    int v = this.Value;
    int x = Object.Value;
    Link.X = x;
    
    // Current annoyance... but unlikely as part of the ZC script API. ...idk
    void Foo(const int &in a, int &out b, Object &c)
    {
    }
    
    //unless we allow unsafe references only "out&" or "&inout" is really useful.
    Script language reference: http://www.angelcode.com/angelscript...oc_script.html
    Other issues?
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    Let's talk about the AS syntax really quick.

    Code:
    //note: code is gibberish, it doesn't do anything.
    
    //HANDLES
    void Foo(Ref@ ref) //option A:
    {
      @ref = @Ref.Create(); //points to a new thingy.
      ref = otherRef; // now it value copies other thingy. whoops.
    }
    
    // confused yet? ...well then:
    
    void Foo(Ref ref) //option B:
    {
      ref = Ref.Create(); //points to a new thingy.
      ref = otherRef; // now it POINTS to other thingy instead.
    }
    
    int e = Enum::Value;
    int i = A::B::Value; 
    int v = this.Value;
    int x = Object.Value;
    Link::X = x;
    
    ..confused again?
    
    int e = Enum.Value;
    int i = A.B.Value; 
    int v = this.Value;
    int x = Object.Value;
    Link.X = x;
    
    // Current annoyance... but unlikely as part of the ZC script API. ...idk
    void Foo(const int &in a, int &out b, Object &c)
    {
    }
    
    //unless we allow unsafe references only "out&" or "&inout" is really useful.
    Script language reference: http://www.angelcode.com/angelscript...oc_script.html
    Other issues?
    Looking at that syntax makes me feel like I'm looking through the source code, just to do a little scripting. I'm not entirely sure how this will help people learn the language?

  9. #39
    The Time-Loop Continues ZC Developer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimentio View Post
    Looking at that syntax makes me feel like I'm looking through the source code, just to do a little scripting. I'm not entirely sure how this will help people learn the language?
    It's not. We have to set up how we want scripts to behave, and set up compiler options accordingly; perhaps even have some form of code standard. Have you ever been to an eye doctor and they asked you "A or B?" Well that's what we have to figure out. That code is purposely ugly for this purpose.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    It's not. We have to set up how we want scripts to behave, and set up compiler options accordingly; perhaps even have some form of code standard. Have you ever been to an eye doctor and they asked you "A or B?" Well that's what we have to figure out. That code is purposely ugly for this purpose.
    Ah. I vote on making it as close to ZScript as possible, without it's limitations.

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