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Thread: The Liberation of Hyrule: Insanity's Extreme

  1. #21
    Octorok Goriya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James24 View Post
    Gleeok thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated. If you could, please email me in private about the quest if you wish to discuss it further. The way this topic is going it is going to be locked like in purezc sooner or later.

    I have achieved what I set out to do. My intended audience is playing the quest and the type As have stayed off and not tried to trick me into sending the quest to them. There is nothing further to be gained by this bickering so I won't be visiting the forums anymore. I will leave with one final comment though:

    It seems to me that Zelda Classic players have a culture of entitlement. They seem to expect quest makers to surrender control of their quest making talent and ability to suit their type A tastes "or else". The "or else" meaning bad comments, bad ratings, threats of not playing, rude insults, bad reputation etc... I have not caved in to their demands and I am very proud of that fact. I made LoH:IE my way instead of caving in to the masses like AQF and it is a beautiful quest - enjoyed by a select privileged few players and that is how it will remain. NEVER will I surrender control of my quest and there is nothing anyone can do to change my mind.
    Let me quote SUCCESSOR, here:
    Quote Originally Posted by SUCCESSOR View Post
    Instead of holding back sharing your quest you should just learn to recognize valid criticisms and ignore the rude or unhelpful people. Striking back with equally rude and ignorant opinions just creates more unproductive conflict.
    This is all you have been doing for this entire thread, and it needs to stop. I'm fine with Gleeok defending your quest, but just because one person defends it doesn't exempt you from all criticism. It seems very clear to me, based on your posting pattern, that you're simply trying to cause uproar, just to get a reaction out of people. You have done nothing productive to your own thread, and the only person who has actually been bickering is you. Everybody else's response has been mature, and all of yours revolve around the mentality that "If you're not a part of the quest's audience, you're shit, and don't deserve to give an opinion on LoH."

    If your posts were mature, this wouldn't have happened, and leaving the forum simply supports the fact that you're just trying to get a reaction out of people.

  2. #22
    Octorok Shane's Avatar
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    Well it's a good thing we weren't forcing you to stop "Type B" quest making and just asking to stop being silly with these little conspiracies of yours. No one done anything except you giving out the "rude insults" to your very own fanbase and giving yourself a "bad reputation" for doing so. How is it me politely saying I won't play your quest a threat? Weren't you even the one forcing us not to even play it? It only goes to show how badly you misinterpreted the whole situation.

    But I guess like you said, you are taking leave. So goodbye and good luck with your project's success.
    Last edited by Shane; 03-04-2015 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Fixed a spelling mistake.

  3. #23
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James24 View Post
    Gleeok thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated. If you could, please email me in private about the quest if you wish to discuss it further. The way this topic is going it is going to be locked like in purezc sooner or later.
    This topic won't be closed. We don't close topics here because people get into heated discussions. Should anyone violate any of the rules of the forums they will pay the price for that not the thread. If you would prefer you could create a second thread to focus solely on discussion of your quest. It is your original post that opened up the direction this topic has taken.


    Quote Originally Posted by James24 View Post
    I have achieved what I set out to do. My intended audience is playing the quest and the type As have stayed off and not tried to trick me into sending the quest to them. There is nothing further to be gained by this bickering so I won't be visiting the forums anymore. I will leave with one final comment though:
    You seem to perceive some sort of trickery and spite that simply does not exist. These people you are so accusatory of are simple reacting to your initial hostility and prejudice.

    Quote Originally Posted by James24 View Post
    It seems to me that Zelda Classic players have a culture of entitlement. They seem to expect quest makers to surrender control of their quest making talent and ability to suit their type A tastes "or else". The "or else" meaning bad comments, bad ratings, threats of not playing, rude insults, bad reputation etc... I have not caved in to their demands and I am very proud of that fact. I made LoH:IE my way instead of caving in to the masses like AQF and it is a beautiful quest - enjoyed by a select privileged few players and that is how it will remain. NEVER will I surrender control of my quest and there is nothing anyone can do to change my mind.
    You seem to completely fail to grasp anything but your preconceived notions. Nobody is asking you to surrender anything. It is a shame you are so defensive and disconnected. I do not wish any quest maker to be alienated from AGN. You can infact share your quest on your terms. As I said make a new thread in the manner Gleeok suggested. I advise leaving off anything controversial to prevent a repeat of what happened here.

  4. #24
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James24 View Post
    Gleeok thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated. If you could, please email me in private about the quest if you wish to discuss it further. The way this topic is going it is going to be locked like in purezc sooner or later.
    AGN doesn't lock threads for arguments. That said, each post must contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way.

    Quote Originally Posted by James24 View Post
    It seems to me that Zelda Classic players have a culture of entitlement. They seem to expect quest makers to surrender control of their quest making talent and ability to suit their type A tastes "or else". The "or else" meaning bad comments, bad ratings, threats of not playing, rude insults, bad reputation etc... I have not caved in to their demands and I am very proud of that fact. I made LoH:IE my way instead of caving in to the masses like AQF and it is a beautiful quest - enjoyed by a select privileged few players and that is how it will remain. NEVER will I surrender control of my quest and there is nothing anyone can do to change my mind.
    I have several statements in response to this comment.

    1.) This is not a feature exclusive to Zelda Classic, it is the nature of sharing any creative endeavor
    Human beings are--by nature--not a homogeneous mixture. We form a mosaic and each individual has tastes and opinions that may not align with yours. You have even admitted this truth in your rather simple model of type A and type B players. A binary model isn't very effective in representing reality but it goes a long way to presenting my point: you've already acknowledged there are players that aren't going to like your quest, and you built the quest with no intention of appealing to them. So why are you giving so much weight to criticism from those avenues? A gamer that plays nothing but Call of Duty will find a game like Skyrim tedious and--if driven to voice an opinion--will complain that the latter isn't a REAL first person game because it doesn't have firearms. Do you think Bethesda Game Studios would pay such a review much mind? Do you think they would go back and alter their already released product to please that player? Or worse, recall the game because of the negative impression? The answer to these questions is "no".
    The fact is, if your quest doesn't appeal to somebody they simply won't play it. No one is going to waste their time intentionally playing a quest that isn't suited to them just so they can bash you with negative remarks. There's plenty of other avenues for entertainment even within our two tiny communities.

    2.) Most of the aggression you are experiencing is self-inflicted
    Following the closure of my first point, your initial post was incredibly aggressive. You explicitly declared yourself to be part of an exceptional minority and you heavily implied that those who you do not consider to be part of your minority are inferior. This is an incredibly elitist attitude and it seems tailored to incite argument. When you place yourself in a 'top percentile' and thumb your nose at the world, the world is going to grab its torches and pitchforks. There were friendlier ways to convey the message that your quest is hard. For instance:
    "This is a quest designed to get continue counts into the triple digits. If you play it, be prepared for lots of broken keyboards, ruined controllers, and frustrated hours of Zelda madness". You applauded Nightmare's quests for matching your style. That's the way HE would talk about a challenge quest.
    Casual gamers like a challenge too, even if the challenge turns out to be insurmountable. For instance, I found Nightmare's 5th quest entry to be quite enjoyable even though many parts of it were white knuckle frustrating. I did not do well on the continue count in that quest. Does that make me an 'A' gamer?
    No, because like I said before, a binary model is far too simple to fit reality.
    When you embark on a creative endeavor and share the fruits of your labor with another person you are making yourself vulnerable. Perhaps it is an unsettling sensation but it is inescapable. Rather than shielding yourself by saying others just don't understand your work, take comfort in the knowledge that your efforts brought you joy and there MIGHT be people out there who will share in that joy. Mend after being wounded, don't attack to prevent an injury. If you do the latter, others will attack back. This is the situation you face now, because you raised your swords before you began.

    3.) Once something is shared, it belongs to the ages
    An English professor once said something that I found incredibly profound: Just because the author wrote the book doesn't mean he knows anything about it. There are depths to our work that we as creators are unable to see on our own. This is why critical reviews exist, to help us identify our flawed patterns and watch out for them in the future.
    Suppose somebody writes a book in a genre you consider to be garbage. You leave a review calling the book a travesty because it doesn't align with your tastes. Should the author pay much mind to your commentary? That depends:
    How constructive was the criticism? Were there details from the text that you used to justify your aggravation? If the answer is yes, then the author needs to keep these issues in mind for further works to prevent a deceleration in the growth of the audience. If not, the review can effectively be ignored without consequence. Criticism can hurt, but it can also be a useful tool in finding direction for FUTURE projects. The key is to look past the sting of a harsh statement and find the logic behind it. Perhaps it is useful, perhaps it isn't. But you won't be able to see the logic if you don't look past the surface. And to see past the surface you have to see the surface first.

    4.) Troll criticism is easy to spot
    Going back to point 2, you can gauge whether criticism is legitimate by the amount of detail present in the review. Someone who made a legitimate effort to examine your work with favorable eyes will sandwich harsh statements between encouraging remarks. On the other hand, someone out to harm you with a review will open with a negative point and let it snowball as they progress. Look for these details, recognize them for what they are, and assign weight to the review accordingly.


    So here's my advice: don't cloister you quest. Give people a chance to enjoy it, but also give people a chance to hate it. If they hated it, clearly they played it, which means you've had an impact on their life.

  5. #25
    Here lies mero. Died by his own dumbassitude.
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    I hope I can change your mind about leaving @James24 . I don't do this with everyone this is me being nice because your quest was the hardest quest I ever played and made everything I've ever played look like a cake walk and that is something I respect. Everyone should create their quest the way they envisioned it and I absolutely agree that we cannot cave into the masses! But we do need to take suggestions of your fans and others into account once and while otherwise you will lose those fans and others which may become fans. Look at it from three perspectives You're intended audience, previous players, and yourself. What would my intended audience think? What would previous players think? And what do I think? As for surrendering control of your quest? What makes you think you have to? You ultimately control how your quest is shaped and formed it's your Game after all, and we respect that. If you don't like a suggestion you can politely respond stating something like "I'm not sure I like that suggestion sorry, perhaps if you can reform it I might like it a little better." Perhaps you should reevaluate your original goals and look back. What we're my original goals when I first started the original quest, what about the remake and if they are different why? I believe you are a good person; stubborn but who isn't am I right, and I hope you will take the time to read this and reevaluate things.

  6. #26
    Gel DarkFlameSheep's Avatar
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    I missed this thread. I know it's late, but post my opinion.

    I can say James quests, Demo quest, and The Hero Without a Name are still easy quest, compared with original AQ and LoH.
    And Lost Isle, Light of the Heavens, Hero of Dreams, Souls of Wisdom are about as hard as James quests etc sometimes,
    I beat Souls of Wisdom's secret dungeon, it have a lot of hard rooms, I can say it's not easy compared with even original AQ.
    Also, Eiyuu's boss battles and last dungeon's hover boots actions.
    A lot of custom bosses are much stronger than original AQ's bosses.
    Last edited by DarkFlameSheep; 08-21-2015 at 05:54 AM.

  7. #27
    Quest Builder Anarchy_Balsac's Avatar
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    Anyone who knows my history or played any of my quests knows that I am not anti-challenge or anything. And I'm sure many critics really are whining about this being too hard. That said, it's easy to spot fundamental flaws in this, even by examining your own supporter's statements. Case in point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    Anyway, Screenshots:


    In this room you have to kill all the enemies with one candle attack.
    Kill 4 enemies with the Blue Candle, and without exiting the room if I understand correctly. This isn't REAL difficulty, it's FAKE difficulty. Why? Well, you have to wait until they randomly line up just right in order to pass that part. Is there more of this kind of thing, or more fake difficulty in general present? I don't know, but I'd wager if these things are manifesting this early on in the quest, that the answer to both questions is a solid YES. Despite enjoyng a challenge, I must say I wish to steer VERY clear of tis quest. And before anyone accuses me of being a sad, unskilled whiner, here is me, beating my own idea of a very overpowered boss in my own Zelda 3 quest:



    Granted, this takes some guessing, but you can miss nearly 9 out of 10 shots, which you won't if you're observant and know how Gohmas work. So I'm not saying this stuff for no reason, there are fundamental flaws with this "quest", no matter how easy or hard it is.
    Last edited by Anarchy_Balsac; 08-22-2015 at 06:50 PM.

  8. #28
    The Time-Loop Continues ZC Developer
    Gleeok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchy_Balsac View Post
    Anyone who knows my history or played any of my quests knows that I am not anti-challenge or anything. And I'm sure many critics really are whining about this being too hard. That said, it's easy to spot fundamental flaws in this, even by examining your own supporter's statements. Case in point:


    Kill 4 enemies with the Blue Candle, and without exiting the room if I understand correctly. This isn't REAL difficulty, it's FAKE difficulty. Why? Well, you have to wait until they randomly line up just right in order to pass that part. Is there more of this kind of thing, or more fake difficulty in general present? I don't know, but I'd wager if these things are manifesting this early on in the quest, that the answer to both questions is a solid YES.
    It's actually not random. The point is that you can always spawn those enemy types in very predictable places, which you then just have to do a quick maneuver and counter with a multi-hit fire attack. Instead of things like like block puzzles, this quest has enemy and logic puzzles--very creative ones too.
    This post contains the official Gleeok seal of approval. Look for these and other posts in an area near you.

  9. #29
    Quest Builder Anarchy_Balsac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    It's actually not random. The point is that you can always spawn those enemy types in very predictable places, which you then just have to do a quick maneuver and counter with a multi-hit fire attack. Instead of things like like block puzzles, this quest has enemy and logic puzzles--very creative ones too.
    Well, if they have a random rate of 0 and a homing rate of 255, I'll admit being wrong about this.

  10. #30
    Quest Builder Anarchy_Balsac's Avatar
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    Double posted by mistake.
    Last edited by Anarchy_Balsac; 08-23-2015 at 01:16 AM.

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