5th Quest drops the Bomb

[Gleeok]

Or possibly a better thread title whenever I think of one.

[...] Let's just skip all the formalities for now until I edit them in later. [...]


Please give our final contestants a round of applause.

Chris Miller
BigJoe
Mischa Petya
Nightmare
Love For Fire
Hero Of Fire

As you may all know, the winner of this contest gets to be the first ever contestant in a brand new reality TV show filmed live in front of a live studio audience for cash prizes and toasters: The Running Man. It's like a 3D version of Smash TV where you only get one life! All right! Yeah, let's go!

Voting is simple: You don't have score any categories or quests since only one can win; just pick the one you think is best. At the very least you will have to write up a little something as to why you picked 'X' quest over the remaining 'Y', and at the most you can write an entire essay if that;s what you want.

[Tamamo]

First: for me this was a hard decision I picked BigJoe's 5th quest over the others cause I enjoyed it the most and second it was well put together. Also rope darknuts.

[Nightmare]

(in order of finish, from worst to first)

HeroOfFire:

Pros: Authenticity high, little deviance from the cartridge.
Cons: Not much inventivity, easy, seemed boring

I think this quest was unfortunately the “black sheep” of the finalists and only got in because of its strong NES connection. Other than that, it was not very fun, generally on the very easy side, and brings very little new to the table. This is not to say it isn't a bad quest, but it feels too much like Randomizer, which does classic much better and lasts a lot longer. I think there are better choices in the end to pick for the 5th Quest and this one out of the finalists kind of disappoints in the long run.

LoveForFire:

Pros: Fun Factor very high, innovation
Cons: Enemy Groups, MIRROR SHIELD, deviates from cartridge too much

This is a hard one for me to place here, goes to show you how strong the 5th Quest entries have been overall. But in the end, including the Mirror Shield I think was inexcusable as it brings a whole new mechanic to the NES that hasn't been explored or maybe even possible to code. Also, there are a few other things like blocks blocking spells and floors blocking spells. Like CJC's quest, this was arguably one of the most fun quests in the contest, but in the end, the stretching of the rules is just way too much.

MischaPetya

Pros: Length, Dungeon Design, Cool NES-like changes
Cons: WAY TOO HARD (Special Version), ROMhack features

This quest will certainly keep you coming back, its dungeons are impressive and I gave it a LP that was very well deserved. This quest has a huge flaws in both versions. The Regular Version has Fire Zols which are not even a Zelda thing, which is questionable. The special version, plays way too much like a ROMhack and the speed is too concerning. As a repeat of what I put in his thread, Zelda is more of a puzzle game and relies more on figuring things out and finding the right way to do things, not reaction time fighting like Street Fighter II. Heck, even challenge quests like James Quest and its recent mix James Quest: Remastered didn't feature things of this level where you need to have picture-perfect reaction time. This is a huge turnoff and has given the community grief in the later levels. With this, I cannot approve of this sadly as the 5th Quest. It'd be a great challenge quest though if released on PureZC and was done up with some cutscenes and stuff.

Nightmare
Pros: Feels like a Zelda game while being creative at the same time
Cons: Wallet usage, dungeon design too linear

It's always hard being objective when it comes to your own work and placing it in retrospect, but I personally think I came in 3rd in this contest. It's a great quest and has a great feel, but the Wallet was used (mostly to show the 255 limitation) and against the top two is a big strike. In fact, it might be why it doesn't win in the end. Also, dungeon design is a bit linear and some of the other entries put that to shame. Oh well, there's always next time.

Chris Miller
Pros: Great feel, Best Level 9 of the contest, Tricky Innovations
Cons: Enemy Groups, a bit on the easy side, neg-hearts need to be displayed with new color, repowered enemies need new colors.

This is a tough call, but I think Chris Miller edged me out by a slim margin on this one, and interchanging him and me is certainly a worthy argument. He knew what he was doing, and presented something in a Zelda like feel. His big chance/change was breaking enemy groups, but something had to be done to show off the features of Zelda Classic. His power curve was by far the best of everybody, with a brutal Level 9 that'll make you proud of beating it. The new colors though can be handled in the consolidation stage and shouldn't be massive negative points.

And my winner:

BigJoe
Pros: Hits the line perfectly between innovation and new enemies, new things introduced, long quest
Cons: Possibly too hard, not exactly the most fun, Level 9 needs to be megamixed a little better

I'm going to go out and say this wasn't the most fun quest I've played, but when it comes to the specs of the contest, this does the job most accurately. The mix of enemies in Level 9 might need to be redone too. Also, screw the powered Like-Likes in 9 and their tendency to eat my shield last minute in tight quarters, led me to a lot of aggravation. But when taking NES limitations into account, this is one of the best you can do. Maybe a few slight changes can be made in the consolidation phase to make this the best quest out there.

[Gleeok]

I didn't want to review anything in the opening post, so here are some of my thoughts.

First, I think that at least four of the quests here are solid enough to have won had none of the other three been entered, though if I am to be a bit more pedantic about it then I would say I have no problem with any one of two quests being the 5th quest. These are BigJoe's and MischaPetya's, so for arguments sake I would give each of them a normalized score of 100. Back to this in a bit.

Another quest that was extremely solid all the way through was Chris Millers entry. The problem I had here was that I couldn't really enjoy it as much because it way too easy, and everything was one and done. Really well made later levels though--just a side note. I found out this quest was originally intended to be a 4th entry and was not finished in time and redone for the 5th; too bad, it would probably have been the front-runner 4th quest to beat.

The next quest that was simply too easy for me too enjoy was Hero Of Fire's entry. I zipped through the middle dungeons so fast that I barely remember much about them--besides some really interesting door mechanics done with scripts. Also entirely way too much rupee grinding in the beginning for my taste. Some good ideas but I wouldn't be able to place it any higher on the list than 6th.

Then we have the next group which were somewhat comparable: Nightmare's quest and LFF's quest. Both of these were very fun and had a generally solid gameplay and difficulty curve all the way through, though had slightly less NES compatibility in different ways and weren't quite as consistent all the way through like the top two picks. If it weren't for Nightmare having trees in LV.2 or the middle dungeons being far too linear I might actually place this entry in the top-tier. -- Fun thought: Hey, what if we combined these two quests into one super 5th quest? I think we'd have a really fun top-tier quest here! ...Where's _L_ when you need him?


And that brings me back around to BigJoe and MischaPetya:

MischaPetya: Best "modern design" quest with NES paradigms. Very strong entry. Excellent difficulty balance in the original version (The DX needs tweaking). If I have any complaints it would be these: 1) A little stingy giving out dungeon items. I felt that Links arsenal was very light for most of the early levels. 2) A lot of passageways. This probably cannot be helped without direct warps though, so, "just sayin'" I guess. 3) Very long quest.

BigJoe: High NES consistency without being boring. Very hard but good balance. Original music. If I have any complaints about this one it would be: 1) Some of the tunes are too atonal. Zelda music is usually melody driven, so this is a rather large leap for me. I really wish you made these as midi format so they could be tweaked by musicians. 2) Very large dungeons. This quest is a doozy, I tell you what.


So there are my top two. Like I said, I'd be happy with any one of them as a winner. :)

...Okay, okay, I'll pick one. You know, for tie-breaking purposes and such.

...drum roll.....

1. BigJoe. I simply had more fun with this quest because of the inventory selection early on. Once you get some rupees and are able to find Levels 1 and 2 initially, you can do a lot of B-button smashing.

...

That's actually a fairly solid interpretation, though I would squabble about the order a little.

[bigboylink]

Looks like 3 votes for BigJoe so far; it's 4 votes if you count my vote.

Here's why I think BigJoe's quest should win:

First off, as many others have said, this quest arguably does the best job of demonstrating "NES limitations". It's a difficult quest, which I understand may turn away some folks, but, if I'm allowed to have a vote, I want the winner to be a hard quest. It's hard, yet fair. Secrets are well hidden, though not impossible or tedious to find. But NES authenticity and difficulty don't mean anything if the quest isn't fun to play - fortunately, BigJoe's quest is helluva lot of fun. Importantly, the pacing is excellent (e.g. acquiring the whistle, bracelet, & ladder gets you access to a HC), which I feel is one of the most important aspects of getting a good "fun factor" score.

Here's a longer review I wrote in Jan 2014:
http://armageddongames.net/showthrea...l=1#post900450

Congrats to all of the finalists. I sincerely enjoyed playing everyone's entries.

[bigjoe]

If I may have a vote, I'd like to put mine up for Chris Miller. His quest was really enjoyable and would have made a pretty convincing NES quest, even with the sort of odd things it had. It had the feeling of being a sort of Lost Levels equivalent of the Legend of Zelda. The negative hearts run a parallel to poison mushrooms, for instance. It was a really fun experience, and Level 9 was just epic.

[Nightmare]

If I may have a vote, I'd like to put mine up for Chris Miller. His quest was really enjoyable and would have made a pretty convincing NES quest, even with the sort of odd things it had. It had the feeling of being a sort of Lost Levels equivalent of the Legend of Zelda. The negative hearts run a parallel to poison mushrooms, for instance. It was a really fun experience, and Level 9 was just epic.

I think you're fine BigJoe as long as if you're in the contest you don't vote for yourself. That's at least what I've been told.

-James

[Gleeok]

I know a few more people have played these! C'mon now, don't be shy. If not, I think we're going to have to call it.

Personally, I was expecting it to be a little closer with some added support for MischaPetya and C_M.

[Tamamo]

Hey Window shoppers down there, if you've read this topic and haven't replied even if you haven't played them their are LPs available mostly done by Nightmare. Now get off your duffs and vote already. NO WINDOW SHOPPING!

[mrz84]

I'll watch the LPs and vote when I get home tonight from work and update my post once I've done so, if you don't mind to delay ending it a bit longer.

[Edit-o-vision] - After watching several videos for each entry, I'd have to say I cast my vote for Bigjoe's quest as #1, with Love For Fire and Hero of Fire as #2 and #3 respectfully. I'd rank the others as 4- Chris Miller, 5- Nightmare, and 6-Mischa Petya.

I do say that after watching them, I'd like to play them for myself now. Kudos to all who made quests that got this far.