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View Poll Results: Do you plan on making a 5th entry?

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Thread: Fifth Quest Planning and Discussion

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  1. #1
    Gel
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    An outsider's take on the quest rules.

    Hi there. I registered just so I could put in my two cents on all this. (Not that a new guy's opinion is worth anything, but hey.)

    I only have a few issues with the rules as they are. First off, there's the "mandatory three new enemies" rule. I can certainly see the arguments for it, but I fear that most contest participants will read that and come up with a solution that can be summed up as "hurr durr i'll make a lynel with 3x as much hp as the blue ones and 2x its damage". Increasing health and damage seems to be a popular action in ZC quests. It is also, in my opinion, a very stupid action. The only thing that increased health accomplishes is that it makes fighting enemies more tedious. Raising damage simply means that a mistake incurs a stronger punishment. While there are cases where either of these actions can be appropriate, there are incredibly few cases where both are appropriate together.

    I'm not necessarily saying to get rid of the rule, though. Actually, if I were a participant (I won't be, because Zquest map creation goes over my head), I would use this as the opportunity to make a new enemy species or two. An idea I had was for an enemy that had DR/Wand in the same way Pols Voice have DR/Arrow. Put Link's items through their paces.

    Speaking of items, I would be careful about adding a lot of ZC's included items. This isn't even from a "tradition" standpoint; a lot of the other items are simply gamebreaking. Lemme list some of the ones I can think of right now that would destroy any semblance of balance.
    Magic Bomb Bag: Everything explodes. Player wins.
    Hookshots that do damage: Stunlocks and kills anything that isn't a Wizzrobe or boss, and stunlocks Wizzrobes.
    Boomerangs that do damage: See above, except add Darknuts, and it doesn't stun either those or Wizzrobes, but the loss of versatility is made up for by block piercing and diagonal attack.
    Life Ring: Essentially, unless a single room can kill Link at full health (which is probably bad balancing in itself), he can't die. Even for the players who aren't very patient, all they have to do is turn off FPS limiting for a few seconds and even the slowest Life Ring will regenerate all of Link's health.

    ...Huh. I could've sworn there were a lot more. Ah well, if I think of any others, I'll either edit this or make a new post. In any case, included items should be playtested carefully to make sure they don't trivialize the quest.

    I'd like to conclude this with one thing that I should not really have to mention, but given the stories I've heard outside of the ZC community about the average quest, I'll mention it anyway. Play time is not an accurate measurement of fun.

    (P.S. Pushing blocks into solid tiles is a dumb mechanic.)

  2. #2
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
    Hi there. I registered just so I could put in my two cents on all this. (Not that a new guy's opinion is worth anything, but hey.)
    Of course it is. Thanks for posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post

    I only have a few issues with the rules as they are. First off, there's the "mandatory three new enemies" rule. I can certainly see the arguments for it, but I fear that most contest participants will read that and come up with a solution that can be summed up as "hurr durr i'll make a lynel with 3x as much hp as the blue ones and 2x its damage". Increasing health and damage seems to be a popular action in ZC quests. It is also, in my opinion, a very stupid action. The only thing that increased health accomplishes is that it makes fighting enemies more tedious. Raising damage simply means that a mistake incurs a stronger punishment. While there are cases where either of these actions can be appropriate, there are incredibly few cases where both are appropriate together.
    Obviously forcing requirements like that doesn't guarantee quality results. The quest maker will have to remember that he will be judged on how well he makes use of it. Also the submission can be rejected if the "new" enemies aren't sufficiently different from the original. I personally don't see a darknut with more HP as a new enemy. We can only hope that the contest will inspire people to put in thought and effort and that rejected quests will be resubmitted with improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post

    Speaking of items, I would be careful about adding a lot of ZC's included items. This isn't even from a "tradition" standpoint; a lot of the other items are simply gamebreaking. Lemme list some of the ones I can think of right now that would destroy any semblance of balance.
    Magic Bomb Bag: Everything explodes. Player wins.
    Hookshots that do damage: Stunlocks and kills anything that isn't a Wizzrobe or boss, and stunlocks Wizzrobes.
    Boomerangs that do damage: See above, except add Darknuts, and it doesn't stun either those or Wizzrobes, but the loss of versatility is made up for by block piercing and diagonal attack.
    Life Ring: Essentially, unless a single room can kill Link at full health (which is probably bad balancing in itself), he can't die. Even for the players who aren't very patient, all they have to do is turn off FPS limiting for a few seconds and even the slowest Life Ring will regenerate all of Link's health.
    This is also a concern but entries will be judged on their difficulty. If an item makes the quest too easy it will likely be rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
    (P.S. Pushing blocks into solid tiles is a dumb mechanic.)
    It's "magic."

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