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Thread: Potential NES Inconsistencies

  1. #11
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDragon View Post
    @Nightmare do you have any insights about these inconsistencies? I know you're an expert on the NES behavior.
    I'm reading up. The only one I have a real concern with is item-dropping, but honestly on that, I think it should only be a part of the first two official quests and nothing else. It really should be implemented by scripting and limited to the 1st and 2nd Quest: I don't think anyone really wants this. Too many quests rely on corrected item mechanics and could break certain quests (I think New Quest and James Quest would be totally broken without Blue Earknut drops for example)

    The other one worth noting is the side-warp bug (where you turn and go to the end of the screen), but if we're fixing the bugs I don't think this is a high level of concern.

    Patra patterns might need to be fixed, but still, not too high on this as I'd consider this more an error on Nintendo's part and not so much an intended feature that he doesn't reset eventually.

    10th Enemy Has the Bomb probably needs to be implemented in the 1st and 2nd Quests. 3rd and on, probably not, I'd leave it up to the developers.

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  2. #12
    How many licks to get to the center Chris Miller's Avatar
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    Here's a detailed explanation of how item drops work in Zelda 1: http://redcandle.us/The_Legend_of_Zelda#Drops

    Download Lands of Serenity today! You will be knocked comatose by its sheer awesomeness.
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  3. #13
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    Good posting, but one thing to keep in mind is that implementing the drop system outside of the 1st and 2nd Quests as a non-rule would break a lot of people's quest balances, and that's not fair to do to developers with no notice, no matter how liked or disliked they are. I don't know if everyone is me, but hundreds of hours are put into testing quest balance (testing for 4 days like New Quest Rebuilt rarely happens: Usually it takes a month best case). Furthermore, the root of ZC's drops come from the Zelda manual, not the table.

    Do drops and 10th enemy need to be implemented? Yes, without a doubt. Should they be forced on people? Absolutely not, especially if we're allowing free scripted enemies and other things that don't belong in Z1. Personally, I like the ZC drop system, and I don't want to change it.

    Also, I know it's a dirty thing, but keeping it an option differs us from direct copying, and possibly out of DMCA trouble, just saying.

    -James

  4. #14
    OBEY GOVERNMENT GOD ZC Developer
    Gleeok's Avatar
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    Easiest thing to do might be to add a few..

    When the new scripting upgrade gets put in all this should be scriptable via callbacks; example:

    Code:
    OnEnemyDeath(npc e){
      if(!counts_as_enemy(e)) return;
      int current = tenth_eneny_increment();
      e.dropset = tenth_enemy_lookup_table(current);
    }
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
    Here's a detailed explanation of how item drops work in Zelda 1: http://redcandle.us/The_Legend_of_Zelda#Drops
    I was aware of this aspect. I am not sure how the chance to drop /anything/ works. As I said, I suspect that there is a perpetual one byte counter, and if it is above or below a specific threshold, that there is a drop; then the drop is selected from a list. If I knew what determined the drop frequency, I could script this in a matter of minutes and load it into 1st-4th.

    Tracking enemy kills is actually more of a pain than it should be in ZScript at present, FWIW, partly because we do not have npc scripts yet, and those could report a message to the system that the npc died.

    Any npc running by script could simply do:

    if ( this->HP <= 0 ) do_npc_death_count();

    A global script would then track these, and use a hardcoded drop table. I do not know how far off we are from npc scripts. I know that we need to move weapons into their own class to do weapon scripts, and that will take some doing; and will require me reworking the item and weapon editor stuff (again).

    I want to make some adjustments to how noc shields work, in the process. Give npcs a long for shield type on all for sides, that has a size equal to the hitbox length on that side, but that is a topic for another day.

  6. #16
    How many licks to get to the center Chris Miller's Avatar
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    From what I understand, the value that determines whether an enemy drops an item or not depends on a frame counter that starts at power-on.

    EDIT: As I thought: http://redcandle.us/The_Legend_of_Ze...k_Manipulation

    Download Lands of Serenity today! You will be knocked comatose by its sheer awesomeness.
    The Titan's Quest, best played in the bathroom as the excitement can be somewhat...overwhelming.





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  7. #17
    Quest Builder Anarchy_Balsac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
    Here's a detailed explanation of how item drops work in Zelda 1: http://redcandle.us/The_Legend_of_Zelda#Drops
    Mystery solved, always wondered what the old man meant.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchy_Balsac View Post
    Mystery solved, always wondered what the old man meant.

    What he says is a bit clearer in the JP version.

    Perhaps you can pester Jeremy for the 1.xx source so that we can work on a load_quest() function for those.

    I could still use your purview of all of these things.
    @War Lord : Do you have the 1.x sources somewhere? If I could see the loading code in those, at least 1.84, I could possibly fix this inability to load the older quests in modern ZC.

  9. #19
    Administrator War Lord's Avatar
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    If I do, it's on a CD or hard drive buried somewhere in my basement.
    I'm not particularly keen on a needle in a haystack romp down there looking for it...

  10. #20
    Here lies mero. Died by his own dumbassitude.
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    To be honest I think we should allow nes consisten dropGroups to be available to custom quest.
    Perhaps consider that once Enemy Scripting is implementing?

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