User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: Zelda classic source code- Please read.

  1. #11
    Quest Builder Anarchy_Balsac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    751
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    2,442
    Level
    16
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    21.28%
    Well, if you want to contribute, I imagine that, like in most communities, your have to become a well respected member whom the staff feels they can trust first, but I hear ya.

  2. #12
    OBEY GOVERNMENT GOD ZC Developer
    Gleeok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,780
    Mentioned
    258 Post(s)
    Tagged
    10 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    12,701
    Level
    32
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    98.77%
    I totally agree. The source code needs to be hosted publicly; indeed, we we are way overdue for that. To be completely honest (in all fairness to the community), the only reason it's not done yet is because of the notion of keeping password protection on password-protected quests, and being open source at the same time. Those are two very different things, and to be even more honest about it: I sort of don't work on trying to make these two things possible because in the back of my mind I know that someone's just going to fork the repository and put in all the encryption stuff anyway, so it would be like painting my house during a sandstorm (or some other analogy, you get my point)... I guess you could say that motivation for it does not exceed the minimum requirements to overcome laziness.

    But it really does need to get done.

    [edit] Also, there's nothing really stopping it from being released I guess, minus the fact that ZC cannot load quests, and the license is basically GPL.
    Last edited by Gleeok; 07-29-2015 at 10:47 PM.
    Join the Gleeok Book Club - It's easy, all you have to do is read...

    "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" (British Royal Institute, 1906)
    None Dare Call It Conspiracy -Gary Allen
    Deliberate Dumbing Down of America -Charlotte Iserbyt
    Morals and Dogma -Albert Pike
    Bloodlines Of The Illuminati -Fritz Springmeier
    The Rape Of Justice -Eustace Mullins
    The World Order, A Study in the Hegemony of Parasitism -Eustace Mullins
    The Most Dangerous Superstition -Larken Rose
    "War is a Racket" �Major General Smedley Butler

    The WWI Conspiracy: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 "A New World Order"

    �The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating.� �Thomas Jefferson
    �It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system for, if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.� �Henry Ford
    �Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.� �Benjamin Franklin

    This post contains the official Gleeok� seal of approval. Look for these and other posts in an area near you.

  3. #13
    Gel
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    288
    Level
    6
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    23.94%
    Nice to meet you Gleeok, I've heard a lot about you.

    Wow, I didn't expect to get so many replies, thanks.
    I realise nobody should trust me, that's why I don't expect to get access to the source before release.

    Ah, I know the password thing is a big hurdle; you want the old quests to work, and their security to still matter.
    Perhaps you could just remove support for passworded quests, and their authors can would have to open them up for other people to use?

    Was there ever a contract that said "armageddon games reserves the right to remove your password with future versions of ZC/ZQ"?
    That would have been great, then it could just disregard the passwords which will be labeled "deprecated" (although that may offend some).

    Unfortunately that really does sound hard to fix. It's either everyone's quests become editable, or are not available any more (unless converted).

    [EDIT]
    It's just that these days nobody has much free time to spend on these projects. Free projects like these need the community to survive and thrive.
    So the faster it gets opened up, the sooner everyone can benefit from it! I'm sure that once it's opened more quest makers will pile up and start making levels!
    Even if it means losing compatibility with the old quests, it'll get more over time. Besides open source projects get a lot more publicity.

    And perhaps a closed-source app can be made that you input a password and outputs a converted quest?
    Still an application like that needs special security measures, because the hacking community would probably be lurking.
    Last edited by _Mitch; 07-29-2015 at 11:21 PM.

  4. #14
    The Timelord
    QDB Manager
    ZC Developer
    ZoriaRPG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Prydon Academy
    Posts
    1,364
    Mentioned
    110 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    4,535
    Level
    21
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    23.76%
    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    I totally agree. The source code needs to be hosted publicly; indeed, we we are way overdue for that. To be completely honest (in all fairness to the community), the only reason it's not done yet is because of the notion of keeping password protection on password-protected quests, and being open source at the same time. Those are two very different things, and to be even more honest about it: I sort of don't work on trying to make these two things possible because in the back of my mind I know that someone's just going to fork the repository and put in all the encryption stuff anyway, so it would be like painting my house during a sandstorm (or some other analogy, you get my point)... I guess you could say that motivation for it does not exceed the minimum requirements to overcome laziness.

    But it really does need to get done.

    [edit] Also, there's nothing really stopping it from being released I guess, minus the fact that ZC cannot load quests, and the license is basically GPL.
    I hadn't mentioned this in the past, but how about supplying a pre-compiled password library file, as a separate download, for compatibility concerns?

    Using that, a person could compile ZC, drop in the lib, and load quests; or write their own encryption protocol; or use no encryption, all at their discretion. The library would be user-end, so if it exists, ZC uses it. if it isn't in the path, ZC uses either (A) no encryption, or (B) user-defined encryption.

    Forking will happen, no-matter what you do. It's an inevitable fact of open-source projects, and often, vital to their evolution.

  5. #15
    Gel
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    288
    Level
    6
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    23.94%
    @ZoriaRPG That actually sounds like a great solution. Good idea actually.
    But I bet someone would reverse engineer it eventually (the lib).
    Perhaps if it's designed cleverly enough though, that could pose a challenge.

  6. #16
    Here lies mero. Died by his own dumbassitude.
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    929
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    5,527
    Level
    23
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    13.96%
    rewrite the encryption complety again and write a password updater that opens with the ol and saves with the new

  7. #17
    Quest Builder Anarchy_Balsac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    751
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    2,442
    Level
    16
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    21.28%
    That also wouldn't work if it were open source. It might make it a llittle harder for people to dig through the code and figure things out, but they could still do it.

    The best approach is to bury the encryption deep within some random place of the source code, with no comments dictating what it is or how it works, but it could still be found even then.

  8. #18
    Gel
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    288
    Level
    6
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    23.94%
    Actually Anarchy_Balsac, if you are talking about ZoriaRPG's post, it could work -but you are probably talking to Tamamo.

    ZoriaRPG is saying that you could compile the password code into a static library that gets linked into the main program.
    Also, an dynamic link library would work. But still, this could be reverse engineered, but pretty much anything can be so.

    Burying the encryption in the code and releasing it online would most definitely get found eventually.
    If the encryption is ever changed a closed source tool could be useful in converting maps, but that could just be implemented in an external compiled library for ZQ as well.
    Last edited by _Mitch; 07-30-2015 at 02:50 PM.

  9. #19
    Underwhelming Penguin Isana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Age
    26
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    252
    Level
    5
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    87.07%
    Quote Originally Posted by _Mitch View Post
    @ZoriaRPG That actually sounds like a great solution. Good idea actually.
    But I bet someone would reverse engineer it eventually (the lib).
    Perhaps if it's designed cleverly enough though, that could pose a challenge.
    The only difference between reversing ZC as it is now and reversing a library is that, assuming the library's sole purpose is encryption, there would be a lot less code to look through.
    You could throw a bunch of junk code in there with it and use a few other tricks to change that though.

    I think the external library is a fine idea.

    To be honest, though, all these arguments about someone still being able to screw around with the code to do something like open password protected
    quests are pointless. If everyone thought like this literally nothing would ever get released...
    Aside from that, as you're all already aware, it's already possible to open password protected quests.

    These are useless without knowing where to apply the patches, but this is all it takes to make ZQuest disregard passwords in the latest release of Zelda Classic...
    E9 58 FF FF FF - Linux
    E9 57 FF FF FF - Windows

  10. #20
    Gel
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    vBActivity - Stats
    Points
    288
    Level
    6
    vBActivity - Bars
    Lv. Percent
    23.94%
    That's why I said someone would probably reverse engineer it, simply because it has less code and would be easier to do.
    Yeah, but voiding or disregarding the passwords would be disregarding the user that created the quest some might say.

    Are you saying all it takes is overwriting a few bytes in the quest file to open a passworded quest?
    If so, that's kinda sad, and poor design- and that is only 5 bytes! But why is it different in the windows and linux version?

    By posting those 5 bytes, could anyone with basic knowledge on file comparison and a hex editor could search for that string in a non-passworded quest,
    overwriting it at the same location in a passworded quest- likely opening it right up (assuming the offsets are the same)?
    It sounds like there was not much security to begin with really.
    Last edited by _Mitch; 07-30-2015 at 08:33 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Armageddon Games is a game development group founded in 1997. We are extremely passionate about our work and our inspirations are mostly drawn from games of the 8-bit and 16-bit era.
Social