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Thread: Eternal Zunder

  1. #11
    IPN User Tamamo's Avatar
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    Just to let everyone know ZC is approaching Open Source just a few minor issues to hash out and we're done. Also using a password by pass build is dumb. Report the quest bug and if that doesn't work find a new quest to play cause the quest maker is either long gone or is a jerk. It's not your responsibility to fix another quest authors bugs. It's theirs.

  2. #12
    Underwhelming Penguin Isana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctrl-alt-delete View Post
    I sure hope all of these talented dev haxxors decide to help develop for ZC when it's open source.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mero View Post
    Just to let everyone know ZC is approaching Open Source just a few minor issues to hash out and we're done. Also using a password by pass build is dumb. Report the quest bug and if that doesn't work find a new quest to play cause the quest maker is either long gone or is a jerk. It's not your responsibility to fix another quest authors bugs. It's theirs.
    I do recall reading somewhere that it was planned to release Zelda Classic as open source with some minor changes, but that was a while back and I hadn't seen any recent updates on that so I kind of assumed that this idea had been scrapped haha. Good to know that it's still in the works. There are a number of things that I'd love to contribute to Zelda Classic if given the opportunity so I'm looking forward to it. n_n

    Yeah, perhaps it is dumb to have modified ZQuest to bypass the password hash comparison, but I personally find it to be useful and it was fun so, meh. As for bugs, of course I'd report them, but there's no real reason to simply drop a quest due to a bug that could be fixed if one has the ability to do so. It's not like I'd be distributing unofficial updates to quests or anything haha.

  3. #13
    IPN User Tamamo's Avatar
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    It's always been the plan to open source it eventually. Then the 2.11 Decade happen and that came to a halt.

  4. #14
    meh
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    Hah, the coincidence gave me a well needed laugh. I actually thought about doing the same thing, but I decided not to for a few reasons:

    For one, I read somewhere that steps were taken to prevent people from doing exactly that.
    I wanted to distribute it after I was done and I didn't want to distribute someone elses work.
    I also wanted it to be a single file python script since it's more portable and people can see the source code so they can verify that it's legit.
    And I was invested in the challenge of deciphering the assembly by that point.

    Also, CAD, I'm more of a python guy. I tried C++ a bit as a college requirement in mechanical engineering, but I still love my python more.
    Btw, if this is the same CAD that wrote the Halo CE: Animation Exporter for 3DS Max, thanks man, love that shit.

  5. #15
    Underwhelming Penguin Isana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eternal_Zunder View Post
    Hah, the coincidence gave me a well needed laugh. I actually thought about doing the same thing, but I decided not to for a few reasons:

    For one, I read somewhere that steps were taken to prevent people from doing exactly that.
    I wanted to distribute it after I was done and I didn't want to distribute someone elses work.
    I also wanted it to be a single file python script since it's more portable and people can see the source code so they can verify that it's legit.
    And I was invested in the challenge of deciphering the assembly by that point.
    Yeah, it's definitely more fun to reverse the code itself and re-implement it to achieve whatever you've set out to do, but in this particular
    case I just wanted something that worked. I actually looked around for a bit to see if anyone else had done this yet and didn't find anything
    so last night I decided to do it myself.

    Your script is pretty nice though and portability is always great. n_n

    C++, Vala, and C# are the languages I've spent the most time with. I've tried Python, but I'm not really a fan of the syntax. I prefer when the syntax is similar to that of C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mero View Post
    It's always been the plan to open source it eventually. Then the 2.11 Decade happen and that came to a halt.
    Thank you for the clarification. n_n
    Last edited by Isana; 03-12-2015 at 12:25 AM.

  6. #16
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    I see a lot of arguments over the risks as well as the uses but it really just boils down to the fact that this is a community. If the majority of the community really feels strongly about something then decisions will likely follow. It is looking like we will probably not be allowing software that bypasses or removes passwords on these forums. Nothing official has been decided yet that is just my guess. As Gleeok has said we can expect a lot more of this stuff when the source is out so we might as well reach a decision now. Obviously no one can stop you from distributing but links to it probably won't be allowed here at AGN. Of course we aren't going to stop you from talking about it. That's not how we do.

    A reminder for the millionth time: Even though these examples don't pull passwords, your passwords on quests are not safe. Do not use account passwords to lock your quest.

  7. #17
    They Live We Sleep ZC Developer
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    Actually, I think the community has lightened up a bit the last few years. Who knows, maybe in a few more years no one will really care anymore.
    "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" (British Royal Institute, 1906)
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    This post contains the official Gleeok™ seal of approval. Look for these and other posts in an area near you.

  8. #18
    Underwhelming Penguin Isana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleeok View Post
    Actually, I think the community has lightened up a bit the last few years. Who knows, maybe in a few more years no one will really care anymore.
    There will always be someone who cares, but yes perhaps we will see more people grow to simply not care whether or not someone can edit their quests in the near future. The option to protect one's quest should definitely always be available though. If Zelda Classic were re-written perhaps a more viable solution for securing quests could be implemented.

    As it is now, there's not really much else you can do since Zelda Classic itself needs to be able to read quests. I'd like to see quests compiled down to some form of bytecode which could be embedded in a 'runner' of sorts, producing an executable (possibly along with some necessary libraries) which could then be distributed as opposed to quest files. This would be possible with a complete rewrite of Zelda Classic. Something along those lines would be quite a bit more secure.

    Anyway, I patched the latest build of ZQuest for Linux... I'm done now, I promise. xD


    Quote Originally Posted by SUCCESSOR View Post
    I see a lot of arguments over the risks as well as the uses but it really just boils down to the fact that this is a community. If the majority of the community really feels strongly about something then decisions will likely follow. It is looking like we will probably not be allowing software that bypasses or removes passwords on these forums. Nothing official has been decided yet that is just my guess. As Gleeok has said we can expect a lot more of this stuff when the source is out so we might as well reach a decision now. Obviously no one can stop you from distributing but links to it probably won't be allowed here at AGN. Of course we aren't going to stop you from talking about it. That's not how we do.

    A reminder for the millionth time: Even though these examples don't pull passwords, your passwords on quests are not safe. Do not use account passwords to lock your quest.
    Nothing wrong with prohibiting users from distributing such tools here. Glad to see that you're not simply going to censor discussions of this type, but I personally feel that there are cases in which it would be perfectly reasonable to take action. Example: Someone describes, in detail, how to bypass or remove passwords.

    Are the password hashes not salted? Shouldn't be too big of a concern as long as they're not straight MD5 hashes, but SHA-1 hashes are still arguably more secure. n_n
    Last edited by Isana; 03-12-2015 at 06:06 AM.

  9. #19
    Username Kaiser SUCCESSOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isana View Post
    As it is now, there's not really much else you can do since Zelda Classic itself needs to be able to read quests. I'd like to see quests compiled down to some form of bytecode which could be embedded in a 'runner' of sorts, producing an executable (possibly along with some necessary libraries) which could then be distributed as opposed to quest files. This would be possible with a complete rewrite of Zelda Classic. Something along those lines would be quite a bit more secure.

    Nothing wrong with prohibiting users from distributing such tools here. Glad to see that you're not simply going to censor discussions of this type, but I personally feel that there are cases in which it would be perfectly reasonable to take action. Example: Someone describes, in detail, how to bypass or remove passwords.

    Are the password hashes not salted? Shouldn't be too big of a concern as long as they're not straight MD5 hashes, but SHA-1 hashes are still arguably more secure. n_n
    It would be a more secure and portable option to have quests as stand alone games. I imagine Phantom Menace never imagined his little program to have such reach or longevity. Obviously we have the benefit of seeing how things could work better.

    Censorship of freedom of speech will be discussed on a case by case basis taking into acount the content and the drama it may cause. Obviously the ones specifically forbidden in the rules are exceptions.

    Even if there were a more secure way to store the passwords would it really matter? We have no way of preventing a dictionary attack which might be more effective on most people's passwords than trying to reverse the hash. Is any hash truly secure? Simple solution: use a unique password for your quest.

  10. #20
    Underwhelming Penguin Isana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUCCESSOR View Post
    It would be a more secure and portable option to have quests as stand alone games. I imagine Phantom Menace never imagined his little program to have such reach or longevity. Obviously we have the benefit of seeing how things could work better.

    Censorship of freedom of speech will be discussed on a case by case basis taking into acount the content and the drama it may cause. Obviously the ones specifically forbidden in the rules are exceptions.

    Even if there were a more secure way to store the passwords would it really matter? We have no way of preventing a dictionary attack which might be more effective on most people's passwords than trying to reverse the hash. Is any hash truly secure? Simple solution: use a unique password for your quest.
    Of course. I don't think anyone foresees anything they've created becoming popular to any considerable extent. I only just re-discovered Zelda Classic this year; the last I did anything with it was probably sometime in 2004-2005 so even I was surprised to see how far along things have come.

    Not disagreeing with you there haha, but when I typed that I was just thinking about someone simply taking a hash and comparing it against a large collection of other hashes generated from common passwords, words, etc. since that's generally the first thing most people would do with a hash.
    Last edited by Isana; 03-12-2015 at 06:53 AM.

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