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Thread: Babies and sexism

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    Wizrobe rock_nog's Avatar
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    Babies and sexism

    Oh man, I just had... well, a series of really weird dreams, but I also had a semi-normal dream where for some reason I found myself having to take care of a baby. Nothing too horrible, it wasn't like, "OMG there's this crying thing and I have no idea how to take care of it," because after all, growing up the oldest of eight, whether you want to or not, you inevitably end up learning at least a thing or two about taking care of babies. I will say, though, calll me a cynic, but I remember in my dream thinking, "Geez, it's gonna be forever before this thing learns how to talk." I woke up thankful I didn't have to change any diapers or anything, but it made me think of something that I guess had kinda been in the back of my mind for a while - that, as a guy, I basically get a free pass on the whole "baby-shaming" issue, as I think I'll call it. What I mean is, and I've seen this firsthand, is how women are basically expected to start having children at some point, and women who choose not to have children are practically harassed by society for making the wrong choice. It's not always taken from a negative angle, in fact, people who do it often think they're being quite positive, but it's still there.

    It's just like, it seems like all women are expected to have children, and women who don't have children may not be exactly straight out told that they're wrong, but certainly there seems to be the implication. As in, a woman without children may be asked when she plans to have kids, rather than if. Or, if she expresses a desire to not have children, "Oh just wait, you'll change your mind!" And just in general, there seems to be this whole notion that a woman's life is pointless and empty unless she chooses to have children. At the same time, though, there doesn't seem to be that kind of pressure on men. I've never had anyone tell me I'm wrong for not wanting children, and no other guys I've known have been subject to that pressure. Which actually, that seems kind of odd to me - having a baby is a two-person process, generally speaking. If it were really about how babies are so great, you'd expect men and women to be pressured equally, but to me, that almost kind of proves that it's more about putting women in their place (yeah, I know it's mostly women who do this kind of thing, but that doesn't change the fact - it's still someone else deciding for you based on your gender what your role in society should be ).

    Anyway, just wanted to rant, because this has been on my mind for a while, and it really irks me, and that dream just kinda reminded me of the whole issue.
    The artist formally known as macweirdo42, formally known as weirdguy (it's a long, uninteresting story).

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    A is A Mercy's Avatar
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    It is because women are the child bearers. Different cultures look at the male role in procreation differently. In some, it is all about raising one family with one or more partners in one family group. While there are those cultures where the men's role is to spread their seed amongst as many different females in various family units as possible. And let's face it, men will spread their seed as often as opportunity allows, whether procreation is the intention or not. As it is usually the women who are hands-on about rearing the children, the physical presence of the fathers is not always expected or even practical beyond conception. Women, on the other hand, are expected, barring incident, to raise their brood, themselves, with or without daddy(s)' s presence. We do the gestating, the birthing, the suckling, and most of the physical rearing. Even in those cultures where it is still the norm for a parent to work away from the family home for weeks/months/years at a time to support them (Philippines is a prime example), it is usually the fathers who go abroad, if only one parent is away. Throw in a little Darwinism and natural selection and there is the answer for why, as a species, we may not want "all" the men to breed while nature tends to weed out some of the less desirable female candidates via aggressive infertility and the like.

    The short answer is really, women have a limited window, physical inconvenience (pregnancy reduces one's options at least temporarily), social obstacles, and an arguably lesser inclination to risk random procreation so we may need to be "reminded" now and then of our duty to the species. Men like spewing their baby batter around for kicks and giggles and egos with little to no provocation and will do their duty whether they intend to or not. In other words, men do not get the, "You will change your mind," spiel because they will most likely get sloppy eventually and knock someone up anyway.
    "The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."

    Glenn the Great: I just think I'd be happier as a pretty lesbian girl.

    "Live and Let Live" is an excellent, tree-hugging philosophy, but it doesn't do much when the ones you refuse to kill are dragging you down with them.

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    Wizrobe rock_nog's Avatar
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    From a biological basis, sure, I understand those attitudes and their causes. However, we are capable of doing more with our lives than simply fulfilling our biological imperatives, and I think it's rather insulting to demand people conform to their assigned gender expectations. I mean yeah, if everyone suddenly decided "No more babies," or whatever, there might be a problem for the species on down the line, but to tell women, "Hey, shut up, your job is squeezing out babies first and everything else is an afterthought," regardless of what the woman wants for herself, is just friggin' insulting and degrading, reducing all of human experience to merely fulfilling biological imperatives. And yeah, I know there are those cynics out there who say that's all there is to the human experience, but I, for one, don't subscribe to that philosophy.

    And I want to make it absolutely clear - there's nothing wrong if that's what you choose to do with your life - so long as it is your choice to make. What I find utterly appalling is the desire to strip others of their free will and degrade them to nothing but biological factories based solely on what equipment they've got. To deny someone their free will, the ability to choose their own lives, to me, is one of the worst things you can do.
    The artist formally known as macweirdo42, formally known as weirdguy (it's a long, uninteresting story).

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    A is A Mercy's Avatar
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    Meh, it is what it is. Try being a woman who thinks child-rearing (and homemaker) is its own valid profession choice yet thinks women (and men) should not be able to "have it all" if they want children and certain (outside the home) careers. I get to be a traitor to my sex from both the stay at home mum and feminist career woman perspectives yet I fully support both as valid life-choices. Woe be to the person who has to point out that while the company and employees may be more than happy to make concessions so Ms. Breeder can work 35 hours a week rather than 40 to tend her sprog, it would be wrong to promote her to a new position that normally requires 50 hours a week to properly perform, if she cannot meet the hours.

    There is some physiological weirdness that goes along with having children. Hormones, pheromones, and endorphins all work on an unconscious level to make birthing babies seem like the bees knees of human endeavors. Most cultures further reinforce the notion. I like to think that most people who question the choice of others not to procreate are well-intentioned. It is that film you saw or book you read that you found profoundly mind-blowing and entertaining and that person you really think would enjoy it is simply not interested. Kahlil Gibran's The Madman should be required reading for everyone as far as I am concerned, but I try not to take it personally when people tell me they do not like to read. I also do not take it personally when various religious persons attempt to convert me to their mythology. We all have our own views on the purpose of human existence. Now offense gets passed around the moment someone presses the issue beyond polite conversation but that is more about social mores being less these days and should not be tolerated without rebuke no matter what the topic.

    I suggest that the crux of the matter has more to do with gender definitions being less succinct these days and the amalgam of cultures that make up the world not yet prepared to redefine them. Men are men, unless they're women (the tip of the iceberg we have only just started exploring in modern society) and women are mothers. When we are enlightened enough to really accept that some men are mothers and some women are warriors, we may stop expecting everyone to conform to their genital-ly assigned roles.
    "The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."

    Glenn the Great: I just think I'd be happier as a pretty lesbian girl.

    "Live and Let Live" is an excellent, tree-hugging philosophy, but it doesn't do much when the ones you refuse to kill are dragging you down with them.

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