[5th quest entry] Travster

[Coyotek4]

Not wanting to leave any quest unfinished ... even this one ... I decided to 'cheat': I accessed the quest through the editor to find (a) the white & magic swords, (b) the magic shield, (c) the blue ring, and (d) the blue candle.

Once I found where they were, I went for those items. The candle won't come up during the first three Levels. Without that, there's no blue ring or magic shield, and without those, there's no frikkin' chance in hell.

FYI: it's not easy finding the white sword. My personal opinion is: make the white sword relatively easy, and the magic sword relatively hard (but still fair).

Fortunately, it wasn't hard to get to the candle; once I had that, and saved enough money (I did NOT look up where any hidden money stashes were), I got the two items I feel necessary for completion, and finished Levels 3 and (an easier) 4. As I also got all 5 HCs (4 of which are way too close to each other, I should add), I was able to upgrade to the magic sword.

Even with the blue ring, magic sword, and magic shield, Levels 5 through 8 are no walk in the park (which, to be fair, is probably a good thing). I think Level 8 is missing a map, but otherwise, no 'unfairness' issues.

I think too much of Level 9 dumps you back to start, though again, this is personal taste.


I did finish this quest this morning, but I never would have done so without looking up stuff; as such, I have no guilty conscience about marking 'could not complete'. Whatever the quest was that others completed before me, it wasn't this one.

I'm looking forward to seeing red and blue octoroks again; it'll be like when George Bailey realized he wasn't in Pottersville anymore.

If the overworld (and certain early dungeon rooms) were toned down, or if 'necessary' items were accessible earlier, I could give this quest a chance. As I played it, I cannot do so.

Sorry.

[Travster]

Indeed I updated the quest.
I was told it was way too easy so I revamped the whole thing and tried to make it harder, MUCH harder.
I updated before the deadline so I thought I was alright.

The alternate music is nice given how many other quests are in this competition (though the music isn't really a plus or minus, since I anticipate the winning entry having the original music for NES-authenticity's sake).

What alternate music? I thought I used the zelda 1 dungeon music.

[justin1]

i never played the first version, but this is certainly hard. the problem is that it isn't FUN hard, its just tedious hard. by level 4 i'd racked up 53 deaths (many of which were on the overworld just searching for ANYTHING to help me). this quest has a lot of issues.

. the colours of the overworld enemies are just horrible. i'm fine with making the enemies stronger, but either choose a better looking colour or just keep the colours the same as Z1.
. while on the topic of powered up overworld enemies, you don't need to kill the player in the 2nd screen. for example, one screen right of the start usually has 4 slow red ockorocks. you put 4 double strength ockorocks plus 2 quad strength ockrocks, all fast moving, all dealing one heart damage. the next screen right of that with the tektikes is just filled with them, and they all take 2 hits with the wooden sword.
. if you want to power up the overworld, choose to either increase the enemy stats OR increase the number of enemies, not both. and if increasing stats choose one or two stats to increase, not everything. you don't need to double the HP, plus the damage they do, plus make them move faster, plus make them shoot faster, plus, plus, plus.
. door repair charge of 100 rupees!!!! really?
. here's the issue with level 1. its not that the difficulty is really that bad (its easier than traversing 10 screens of the overworld). the first room you enter has 7 fireball stalfos, the door locks behind you, and you need to clear the room to either escape or move on. firstly, the fireball stalfos is just dumb, doesn't make sense for stalfos to throw fireballs, sprite something else if you want fireball enemies. secondly, the fireballs make the player think they need the big shield for the dungeon - i go looking for it, die a lot searching the overworld, only to read on here that it isn't available until later. so finally i clear the room and move on to a few rooms later, get killed by a sword throwing stalfos (no shield, huge damage), and have to do the whole thing over again. thanks for giving out the magic boomerang so easy, i wouldn't have cleared the dungeon without it (the wooden boomerang in the dungeon was a total waste, i could have never got to that room without already having the magic boomerang).
. almost every screen in both the overworld and dungeons is just piled high with enemies, and many require killing them all to open the shutter or push a block. its tedious and not fun.
. i had no deaths in level 4. seriously, 53 deaths up to that point, but none in level 4. and the only upgraded equipment i had was the white sword. aside from the boss, i think i could have cleared it start of game easier than level 1. and if i was playing again, knowing where the candle is in the level its really easy to break in, grab it, and go treasure hunting.
. increased numbers of peahats and increased strength.

more later.

[Travster]

That's it I have had it with this contest.
Everybody hated my quest because it was too easy.
They told me "Make this harder and it'll have a chance."
Now everybody hates it because its hard!
I quit!
You can put me down as resigned.

[Coyotek4]

That's it I have had it with this contest.
Everybody hated my quest because it was too easy.
They told me "Make this harder and it'll have a chance."
Now everybody hates it because its hard!
I quit!
You can put me down as resigned.

Please don't take any of these comments as insults. It's all constructive criticism.

The problem is one of moderation.

I never played the first version. Perhaps it was too easy, but that was after a couple players (perhaps expert players). There wasn't a large enough sample size.

Make it harder? Not a big deal. But you threw too much in, all at once. One analogy that comes to mind: going from an ice-cold shower to one that burns your skin right off.

You need to find the proper middle ground. And, more importantly, playtest the changes you make.

I think if some aspects are toned down, if some objects are more readily available, if other objects (spec. the Magic Boomerang) are less readily available, this could be a good quest.

Don't be so quick to give up.

[Travster]

The contest has already started so doesn't that mean its too late to fix it?

[CJC]

It's fine to make corrections. In fact, that is the goal of this first round of plays, to find what works and what doesn't and to adjust it accordingly. I think I've updated my quest file close to eight times since I submitted it in October. It's alright to make corrections.


But a more important lesson here is not to cave to peer pressure; if you feel that everyone says the quest is too easy but you were happy with the difficulty, then make a stand and say to the forums "I like the way it is, and that's the way it is going to stay". Also, before making big revisions to a quest, be sure to save a back-up somewhere so that you can back-track if necessary.

Believe in yourself and your work, and don't quit until the fat lady sings.

[Travster]

Alright then I will update the quest.
I just wanted someone to like it but pretty much everybody said it was bad.
That's why I felt so discouraged.
But after opening the game back up in zquest and looking at the layout I said
"MY GOD WHAT THE HECK WAS I THINKING"
So now I'm going to
revert overworld enemies to normal, nerf some bosses, cut back on the number of dungeon enemies and replace the fire boomerang
with the magic boomerang (and of course remove the magic boomerang from the overworld).
Hopefully then people will actually enjoy this quest.

[Nightmare]

I know I was harsh on you first time (I like 0-gamed your first one), but I'm going to second the playtest notion.

Repeating a summary of what I posted in BTJCraft:

If you're 0-gaming it or getting about the same score as the First Quest, it's too easy.
If it's taking you like 100 games, it's too hard.

It's all about balance. Playtest it, improve, get a feel.

-James

[CJC]

Alright then I will update the quest.

So now I'm going to
revert overworld enemies to normal, nerf some bosses, cut back on the number of dungeon enemies and replace the fire boomerang
with the magic boomerang (and of course remove the magic boomerang from the overworld).
Hopefully then people will actually enjoy this quest.

I look forward to trying the quest after the update. Maybe make the regular boomerang the one you find on the overworld, and move the magic boomerang into a dungeon? (I haven't tried either version of your quest yet, so I'm not sure where you placed the boomerang, but I think it's a neat idea to have it on the overworld)