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Thread: [5th Quest Entry] CJC

  1. #31
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotek4 View Post
    Phew! Just finished what I have to consider to be as 'epic' a quest as one can have using the original OVW.

    Exceptionally imaginative. And anyone who's seen "The Cube" can appreciate the tricks in a number of these dungeons.

    I feel compelled to try this again, as ...
    Spoiler: show
    I need to try it by taking the HCs over the items, both for the challenge and the chance to use the Master Sword. I don't like how the Letter is one of the 4 'give up' items, but there seems to be enough potion in the dungeons to make up for this. The other items are pure luxury, especially the 'orange ring', as it comes at the same time as the (inferior, I assume) red ring.
    Spoiler: show
    Yes, the red ring is inferior because it only quarters damage, while the orange ring cuts it to one eighth. I made it the payout for the L7 gauntlet because, unless you leave the dungeon, you'd play it with the red ring and then have the orange ring for the last two dungeons.

    In response to your earlier comment about the bombs, perhaps I'll replace some of the bomb upgrades with Blue Potion special item rooms, so that players who skip the letter still have some chance to stock up before a dungeon. It was my intent that they'd go back to old dungeons with the Lens to find the potions hidden there, but there still might not be enough for struggling players who passed on the lens. Perhaps one of the secrets will feature a VERY expensive blue potion (250 rupees) to get players by until they get the L9 boss key.




    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotek4 View Post
    For all that, though, this feels more like a beginning than an ending.

    A lot of the tricks seemed to be there more to showcase the tricks rather than improve the quality of the game. The sequence of rooms along the right-hand column in Level 9, for example, showcased a lot of new ideas ... but was particularly easy, considering that ...
    Spoiler: show
    the Lens reveals everything, at no cost. Maybe makes things too easy.
    Hmm... perhaps I can use a script to make that item less useful in the dungeon....
    Spoiler: show
    The intent was for players to think back to the dungeons they played earlier and the items that they acquired, and solve the puzzle accordingly. The lock represents level 8, the gauntlet of bubbles and enemies serves as a reminder of the amulet from level 7, and then each block in the string works its way back until the burn flag in level 1

    EDIT: Ah, I know what to do! If I make the floor black tiles and use the cave combo or a 'blank' stair combo... brilliant!


    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotek4 View Post
    Another instance:
    Spoiler: show
    The Amulet is a great item, IMHO, but once it's introduced, is there really a need to continue to have so many rooms with nothing but red sword- and item-bubbles? I think it might play better to make the Amulet one of the 'luxury' items, and use such rooms a little more sporadically.
    Hmmm... it's a thought. The rooms described were meant to deter the player until they acquired the item in question, but considering 3rd quest having required paths like that perhaps it could do with a little tweaking.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotek4 View Post
    Whether the lack of authenticity hurts its chances, I cannot say. (I am certainly reconsidering my initial thoughts on that matter.) What I really see in this quest, is a 'First Quest' all its own, upon which others can build harder, similar quests.
    I hadn't thought of that... perhaps it would be a good candidate for Brave New World (the other contest wherein we build a new foundation with a new overworld to start a new sequence of numbered quests).



    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotek4 View Post
    No matter what, this is the first quest that truly 'blew me away', particularly the later portions of Level 9. Not just the Ganon battle, but the battles before that one. Very well done.

    Kudos on such an enjoyable experience.
    I'm glad you enjoyed it so much, thank you for playing!



    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotek4 View Post
    BTW, one nagging question:
    Spoiler: show
    I found a cave with an old lady, selling very cheap, very useful items. I didn't find this until after I had gotten the Letter. Could I have still used this store without the Letter?

    I suppose I can find out when I play through the quest a second time, but that will have to wait until I finish all the other entries.
    Spoiler: show
    Ah, the super discount shop! Yes, she will not talk to you without the letter, it was a reward for players who chose the letter over the Heart Container

  2. #32
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyotek4 View Post
    One 'typo' to report: the screen one down and one to the right of the NW corner has two staircases, only one of which can be accessed immediately.
    Ah, I see the typo now... it's specifically a typo related to that item in Level 5. I forgot to remove the 'stairs' flag. Sorry about that! As any classic quest, both stairs would lead to the same place anyway; the one is just completely unaccessable.



    EDIT: I've planned some moderate fixes that I need to test before I can roll them out. It is important to note that these fixes are a response to skips in the gameplay and not to actual bugs (which seem to all be handled). Since the changes are dramatic and would require players in progress to restart the game, I'm going to inform in spoiler what they will be so that players in progress can decide whether or not they want to switch to the new version.

    Items
    Spoiler: show
    The first item in dungeon 7 will be changed from the Amulet (A whisp ring) to the Floor Tile (A level 2 ladder). As such, several rooms are having their floorplans changed and the number of red and yellow perma-bubbles has been reduced to compensate for the lack of protection. This affects the last three dungeons and the last HC Guantlet.
    The Amulet has been moved to a hidden location on the overworld, where it can be purchased for 255 rupees (technically it can be purchased again and again like the Blue Ring; this is a shortcoming of the engine and cannot be avoided.

    The Amulet feels like a 'reward' item for one of the money-or-life choices. Since I did not want to eliminate one of the other rewards, I decided to pair the Amulet with the HC on the overworld beach (it was stolen by a moblin). This makes it the only reward item the player can acquire without sacrificing a HC.


    Also, the Fire Boomerang will be removed from the game and replaced with the Power Wand. The loss of stunning capability will be replaced with a massive boost of ranged firepower (4 damage before level 6) and the ability to harm Wizzrobes with this wand. In order to make the mechanic function, the Magic Book's damage boost will have to be reduced from 2 to 1 (is it really that noticeable?). With magic book, the wand will be more powerful than the Magic Sword for combat against enemies that do not block magic.


    Finally, The Master Sword will be able to 'purify' negative bubbles, turning them into blue bubbles.



    Overworld
    Spoiler: show
    Three bomb upgrade spots will be removed from the overworld, as I did not realize how copiously I had sprinkled them across the map. In their place you will find a potion shop (Near to start on the way to Death Mountain), a cryptic hint, and a Goriya Restaurant that sells potions without the letter (albeit at incredibly high prices) and bait (at a moderate price).



    Level 9
    Spoiler: show
    The Ganon fight script will be updated to be more efficient, and the fight itself may or may not gain another phase.

    Also, depending on how well I'm able to get it to work, the puzzle rooms will no longer be quickly solved with the lens and will... well, I'll keep that a surprise. for now




    As I said, I need to implement and test these changes before an update. The changes described are intended to smooth some of the end-game flow and make the closing of the quest more enjoyable. As such there is nothing game-breaking that would require you to wait for an update. If you are currently playing the quest, I recommend continuing as you were and then downloading the update for your (hopefully) second playthrough (because of my greedy tricky mechanic).


    As always, a big thanks to everyone who has been playing and supplying feedback.


    EDIT EDIT: The quest file has been updated. You may use the same save file if you have not started Level 7.

  3. #33
    Gel
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    What can I say? I agree with most of the above comments. This is a very good map in almost every respect. A good amount of challenge, nice puzzles and layout, nothing overdone.
    One thing I really liked about this quest is that it did something that I would have done if I made a quest, and that was make the decisions for the "free" heart containers real decisions. Normally, choosing between a heart container and a red potion is an easy choice- why would anyone ever choose the potion, except to add to the challenge?
    There are a total of 3 problems that I noted in the map. In order of increasing severity:
    1) In the overworld, on the 2nd row down, 15th screen right (one south of the letter in 1st quest), the lens revealed a cave, but I couldn't get to it. Unlike the other hidden paths, I couldn't walk this one. Unfortunately, I am not versed enough in the quest editor to determine what the problem was (I don't know how the flags and such work)

    2) In dungeon 7, I couldn't find the way into the the room which the editor shows has the red ring. Again, even using the editor to check, I couldn't find the way in (no warps to that screen, so paths leading in- there is a shutter door blocking the only connection to the main dungeon, and it didn't open when I cleared the room while playing) Since noone else commented on this, I think I
    may have missed something obvious, but I couldn't find it.

    3) And this is what many others have said- it really added too much stuff to be a good "5th quest." Just looking at the new items, there are powered-up versions of 5 standard items, and 4 new items. Multiple entrances per dungeon.Powered up versions (multiple levels) of most creatures. at least 7 or 8 new dungeon features. Probably a bunch more categories that I missed here. I could have seen introducing a few of these in each of a 5th, 6th, and 7th quest, but all at once is too much of a jump. As stated by others before me, this would be a great starting point for a new sequence of quests.

    That last point is the only real negative I can give this quest- and that is only because of the contest requirements! This quest earns an overall 4.07 / 5 from me, easily putting it as the best of the 8 contest quests I've played, but I cannot recommend it for the actual 5th quest.

    So, CJC, you did too good with this.

  4. #34
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zweldron View Post
    There are a total of 3 problems that I noted in the map. In order of increasing severity:
    1) In the overworld, on the 2nd row down, 15th screen right (one south of the letter in 1st quest), the lens revealed a cave, but I couldn't get to it. Unlike the other hidden paths, I couldn't walk this one. Unfortunately, I am not versed enough in the quest editor to determine what the problem was (I don't know how the flags and such work)
    That was an oops on my part. I made the walking mountains by creating a combo that uses the same tile but has clear walkability. If you press 'W' on that screen the solid spots will turn pink. If you press 'f' it will reveal the flags. The flags below the bomb are hookshot flags I used to demark where the ground was walkable, but I forgot to make that ground non-solid on that screen!
    With the 'w' key pressed, the combos will also show solidity. You'll see one mountain tile near the six that is non-solid, if you switch to CSet 3 (press the + key while in the editor) and select that combo you can correct the error.
    If I get to the finals I will release an update, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen!


    Quote Originally Posted by Zweldron View Post
    2) In dungeon 7, I couldn't find the way into the the room which the editor shows has the red ring. Again, even using the editor to check, I couldn't find the way in (no warps to that screen, so paths leading in- there is a shutter door blocking the only connection to the main dungeon, and it didn't open when I cleared the room while playing) Since noone else commented on this, I think I
    may have missed something obvious, but I couldn't find it.
    You have to push one of the key's eyes. It's tricky because the only way you can push the block is onto another block.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zweldron View Post
    3) And this is what many others have said- it really added too much stuff to be a good "5th quest." Just looking at the new items, there are powered-up versions of 5 standard items, and 4 new items. Multiple entrances per dungeon.Powered up versions (multiple levels) of most creatures. at least 7 or 8 new dungeon features. Probably a bunch more categories that I missed here. I could have seen introducing a few of these in each of a 5th, 6th, and 7th quest, but all at once is too much of a jump. As stated by others before me, this would be a great starting point for a new sequence of quests.

    That last point is the only real negative I can give this quest- and that is only because of the contest requirements! This quest earns an overall 4.07 / 5 from me, easily putting it as the best of the 8 contest quests I've played, but I cannot recommend it for the actual 5th quest.

    So, CJC, you did too good with this.
    Yeah, I think I got so excited about the contest that I just went overboard. I'm ecstatic that everybody has enjoyed the quest so far, but disappointed that I'm going to lose.
    Thanks for playing, Zweldron!

  5. #35
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zweldron View Post
    That last point is the only real negative I can give this quest- and that is only because of the contest requirements! This quest earns an overall 4.07 / 5 from me, easily putting it as the best of the 8 contest quests I've played, but I cannot recommend it for the actual 5th quest.

    So, CJC, you did too good with this.
    Glad I'm not the only person to say this! I think the hardest part of this contest (at least determining the winner) is not only finding a quest that's fun, but one that would fit in with the NES specs and requirements as well. As a result, I don't think the "most fun" quest will win this contest, mostly because of that. There are technical and specs that you need to follow in order to make it authentic, and you have to rate it with that in mind.

    So CJC, going to say this to you once, and once only: FIX YOUR GOD DAMN BUGS IN RESKINNED! MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE AND NOT BUGGY! (do I make myself clear? lol)

    -James

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