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Thread: [5th Quest Entry] CJC

  1. #1
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    [5th Quest Entry] CJC

    Spoiler: show

    A few significant changes have been made to the quest as of 1-25-2014, mostly regarding the overworld and late dungeons. If you have not played Level 7 this version should be (mostly) compatible with your save; otherwise stick to the older version to complete the quest.

    EDIT: Fixed a few whoops errors... Ama is supposed to be the bribe subject below the White Sword and there was a whistle trigger in Dungeon 7 that should not have been there.
    CJC5th_02-08-14.zip

    Changes in this version:
    Spoiler: show
    1.) The Lens will not help you in the puzzles of Level 9 anymore. Or rather, it will but it will be a troll about it. Prepare to have your brain teased.
    2.) The item in Level 7 is now the Dungeon Tile (4-way ladder). The Amulet has been moved to a shop in the overworld and certain rooms have had their layouts changed accordingly. The Amulet is not necessary to beat the game but will make things much easier.
    3.) The Ganon fight has another feature now! Bring rupees and use your bow, but be sure to save one for the final blow or you are doomed!
    4.) There is now a shop in the overworld SOMEWHERE that sells potions without the letter. The prices are atrocious, though, so make your decision accordingly.



    CJC5th.qst (Google Docs Zip, in the menu select File->Download. File Size 290 KB)
    EDIT [8-30-2013 19:53 GMT -6]: File has been updated to make Dungeon 2 easier to find and a little less hare-pulling horrible.
    EDIT [8-31-2013 13:46 GMT -6]: Fixed a finicky flag in Dungeon 5. Pre-emptive warning to players about Boomerang blocks... try them a couple times as sometimes they do not react to the first strike. The problem seems to be the worst when throwing from the north.
    EDIT [9-01-2013 1:50 GMT -6]: Replaced combos in certain rooms of Dungeons 5, 6, and 7 to prevent a hold-up if the player goes out on the ladder before using the Whistle.
    EDIT [9-01-2013 5:32 GMT -6]: Made some minor adjustments to Dungeon 5 to make finding the lens less of a snot-fest.
    EDIT [9-14-2013 23:37 GMT -6]: Made some difficulty adjustments to the three unique enemies before Ganon in Dungeon 9. Their fights will be much more engaging now, but hopefully not too tedious. Hint: Pay attention to strings, there are hints to defeat these enemies easily (well, easier) somewhere in the quest.
    EDIT [10-31-2013 22:33 GMT -6]: Did a once-over on Level 2 to make it less of a murderbox. There are now three entrances to the room with the Bow and the room with the Arrow. The third is blatantly obvious if you happen to go down the center of Gohma's brow before you have the bow (and you somehow defeat the Pols with your sword).
    EDIT [12-26-2013 14:06 GMT -6]: Made some difficulty adjustments to the final hallway in the quest. The Silver Arrow is also much more effective in the final confrontation.

    The quest is in the Classic-style (as dictated by the contest rules). It features two minor scripts, both of which can be found in the ZScript buffer. The quest is unpassworded, so feel free to open it up and take a look around. But don't look in Enemies unless you want spoilers.


    Gameplay is very difficult, intended to fall roughly between the intensity of 4th and 3rd. You will want to enter every dungeon with full health, and preferably a few bombs as well.

    Here are some hints if you're having trouble:
    Spoiler: show

    You won't be able to find extra Heart Containers in the wilderness (well, the one on the Beach is still there), but you can find bomb bag upgrades. Bombs are very important in this quest, especially when your health is low in the first few dungeons. They're a very effective way to defeat certain difficult enemies.

    Dungeons have multiple entrances. If you cannot find a way forward, try leaving the dungeon and looking for another way in.

    Bribery can be helpful more than once. Try each of the guy's prices if you are stuck

    When you get an item that does not deplete resources, that means you should be using it constantly. This goes double for the Whistle. If you're stuck, try using the whistle.

    Keep your distance from Lizalfos. As bad as their swords may be, their touch damage is much worse.

    Blue Like Likes will charge at you. Try to avoid getting into positions where they line up with you.

    Always kill Bombchus at a distance.

    You are going to have to choose between Heart Containers and really good equipment. The game can be completed regardless of what choices you make, but I recommend being consistent (if you take equipment, ALWAYS take equipment. If you take hearts, ALWAYS take hearts).

    The Lens is your friend. Do not leave it neglected in your inventory.

    If you enter a dungeon and there are no doorways, it is a Gauntlet that you are supposed to return to later. These rooms have a single walk-through wall and Ama with a warning about which item will be needed to proceed. Attempting to proceed regardless of the warning will not bode well.


    Other than that, enjoy! Hopefully the gameplay is gripping enough to keep you hooked. Knowing what I was doing, it took me 7:24 to beat it with all Hearts and 5:32 to beat it with all items (32 deaths on the former, 27 on the latter... though those are inflated by testing).


    EDIT: Whoops, word confusion with Entrant and Entry. Just pretend it says Entry from this point out.
    Last edited by CJC; 11-03-2013 at 05:39 PM.

  2. #2
    OBEY GOVERNMENT GOD ZC Developer
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  3. #3
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    I kinda don't like this quest's overall presentation.

    Is it fun? Yes
    Is it good? Yes
    Does it fit the requirement specs: Not at all. The subscreen's changed, there are like 3 entrances per level, and lock blocks (ugh). And this is only Level 1. (and kinda marching around without a key after using the boss key on a block, which I absolutely loathe, but that's not an authenticity error). I feel this has more of a "custom quest with the Z1 Overworld" type of feel and not enough in the NES authenticity area. You might want to rethink this one and fix some of these things.

    -James

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  4. #4
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    I'm glad you think that it's fun. That was more important to me than NES consistency.
    The subscreen is actually identical to the one that was present in 4th quest (which was altered to make room for the Boss Key), with only one change: I widened the B item box to make room for two new items. Since 5th is supposed to follow 4th it will be a less jarring change than say, jumping from 1st to this quest.

    There are multiple entrances to every level but Ganon's. There's a pay-for-info room that details this; I should probably move it to a more obvious place than 'the tree on the corner'.
    3 (+1), 3 (+1), 3 (+1), 3 (+1), 2, 2, 2, 3, 1.
    While I could probably just connect them with passageways instead, the multiple entrances DO grant two advantages: one as a quest maker and the other as a player.
    As a quest maker it lets me fill up more overworld space with meaningful content, rather than sprinkling additional 'pay for the door' and 'secret money' caves. As a player, it presents a shorter backslide when subjected to Wall Masters and Wind attacks, as well as breaks the dungeon up into clearly digestible segments (Okay, I'm going to play until I reach the end of this entrance, then I'll save and quit).

    and lock blocks (ugh).
    The lock blocks are used just like any other flag trigger. I make sure to only use one per screen, and if I do then I do not place any other secrets on that screen (because if the Lock Block WERE a flag, it would trigger those secrets). Lock Blocks only make appearances in Dungeon 1 and Dungeon 8, where they are used to inflate the number of keys to travel in another direction. That said, I DO use locks, burn triggers, hammer triggers, boomerang triggers, magic triggers, and arrow triggers in the dungeons; that could be construed as 'un-NES'.
    EDIT: Oh, and whistle triggers.
    I've used these in the more modern Zelda sense: the triggers exist to serve as 'gates' that only an equipment 'key' can unlock.

    (and kinda marching around without a key after using the boss key on a block, which I absolutely loathe, but that's not an authenticity error).
    You need to bomb a wall in the entrance with the locks; a Goriya will explain that there are only eight keys in the dungeon and you need to purchase the ninth (he'll also tell you there's a moblin with the money to do so if you pay enough for the info)
    EDIT: I should probably make that an open doorway... just until players get used to the pace of the quest.

    I feel this has more of a "custom quest with the Z1 Overworld" type of feel and not enough in the NES authenticity area. You might want to rethink this one and fix some of these things.
    Thank you for the input. Much of the game's flow is dependent on the changes I made... so I don't think I'll be able to 'reel it in' (My schedule is about to clog up, which is why I pushed to finish it now). At this stage the only changes I can really make are triage to fix oversights (like access to important hints).

    If you DO enjoy the gameplay, I urge you to try to make it through the quest. The end has a few... surprises.
    Last edited by CJC; 08-30-2013 at 02:43 AM.

  5. #5
    AGN's resident fox. Orithan's Avatar
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    God darn it. This tells me that I need to get working and step on it for my entrant. The all I have done are some of the overworld secrets and the layout of the first five dungeons (with the first fully furnished).
    While my entrant will be quite NES-like in terms of design and authenticity (as dictated by the rules), I have a few new nasty enemies at my disposal... Just wait until you go to Level 4 to experience the true ingenuity taste of these enemies.
    The Legend of Zelda: Zelda's Last Wish.
    Progress: 99% complete. (Overworld: 100%, Dungeons: 99% overall).
    ETA: Pending.
    Beta/Demo: Out now!


  6. #6
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    BTW CJC, fuck you and your invisible 4-heart damaging enemy in Level 2! What are you doing, playing Green Ninja too much? lol

    -James

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  7. #7
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    BTW CJC, fuck you and your invisible 4-heart damaging enemy in Level 2! What are you doing, playing Green Ninja too much? lol

    -James
    Ama warned ye! An ye dinnae listen, didje?


    I've nerfed Dungeon 2 a little bit so that it is a more bearable early-game endeavor. Abei no longer forces a Negafairy down your throat each time you enter, he'll make you suffer the once and then he'll bugger off (free shop changed to Special Item). I also reduced the number of enemies in the dungeon and blasted open the two main entrances so that it has the same number of 'apparent' entrances as the other three starter dungeons.
    The new file can be found at the link in the first post; I have removed the older version and stashed it on my PC to be kept on record.

  8. #8
    OBEY GOVERNMENT GOD ZC Developer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    BTW CJC, fuck you and your invisible 4-heart damaging enemy in Level 2! What are you doing, playing Green Ninja too much? lol

    -James
    Oh hey, that's pretty funny considering Green Ninja wasn't even hard at all. Maybe I should make a special version with no enemies where you go around and collect barbie dolls and accessorize them instead. Would you like that better?


    For the quest: I played a bit of LV 1 and have to say that this is a really, really, REALLY big stretch from the 4th quest and the NES quests in general. Other than that, no comment since I haven't gotten very far at all.
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    Bloodlines Of The Illuminati -Fritz Springmeier
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    The World Order, A Study in the Hegemony of Parasitism -Eustace Mullins
    The Most Dangerous Superstition -Larken Rose
    "War is a Racket" �Major General Smedley Butler

    The WWI Conspiracy: Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 "A New World Order"

    �The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating.� �Thomas Jefferson
    �It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system for, if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.� �Henry Ford
    �Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.� �Benjamin Franklin

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  9. #9
    Wizrobe Nightmare's Avatar
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    Am I missing a Lv. 2 Bracelet, or did someone forget to put a flag in the room west of the Triforce in Lv. 5? Is this a bad me, or a whoops?

    -James

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  10. #10
    Cor Blimey! CJC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Am I missing a Lv. 2 Bracelet, or did someone forget to put a flag in the room west of the Triforce in Lv. 5? Is this a bad me, or a whoops?

    -James
    It's a whoops, but not as severe as you think. I accidentally used a Vertical push flag instead of a four-way. You need to push up on a certain stone to get it to move. I'll fix it as soon as I can.

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