almost bug free?

[Freedom]

To be honest I just can't understand the direction ZC has taken for the life of me.

If you really think about it, it doesn't make any sense at all.

I understand and appreciate all the features that have been added, it's a much better program today then it was with the 210
BUT it isn't getting a finalized version that can actually be used for it's intended use.

PureZC won't even allow quests to be added to the data base when they are built in one of these betas, so even if I decide to stick with one beta and build a quest, then I'd have to host it on my own for the most part, and release that beta with it.

IF there was a release, then quests could be built and released again for ONE common version and additions to the betas could continue as before.

ALL the major quest builders of old are waiting for that release
Players are waiting for the quest builders.

If it was a business then think of it like this...
It's 100 times harder to get back a customer you've lost, than it is to get a new customer, and if you've ever run a business, then you know how hard it is to get new customers.

It's said that "no new features are being added"
BUT in reality that isn't true.
With each update in the channel log you see that the scripting is being added to and improved.
That could go on forever, and each time a release comes out there are new bugs as a result of that.
So because of that, I have no hopes any longer that a stable release will ever come, and that "some" developers are bullshiting people by saying otherwise, and that adds to hard feelings

When I make posts I'm attacked for coming down on the developers.
well... there are some developers that have blown smoke, and brought that on themselves.
I don't bullshit them.

I'm not the only one, there are fewer posts here now in a week than there used to be in a day, across the board in all areas.
I'd like to see ZC come back, but that isn't up to me.

[Shoelace]

Well, of course, you guys know where I stand but, I have to at least put something on this thread.

So 2.10 was released in I forget... 2004 I think. Okay, so me, I want to make games, that are accessible and will be for all crowds to enjoy. When I made HoD, I got 2.10 and I designed my game. Now 2.10 had bugs. It had the music bug, the Din's fire bug, sometimes crashed, Link Tile Mods, etc. But that was an official release. 2.10 was official. So I made my game, and I worked around the bugs. I worked my damnest to make the game with as few bugs as possible, and I think I made a pretty damn good game.

I am now making EotM. I still haven't really dove into production because the final release hasn't came out yet. Things were changing all of the time in the production that I had to keep forcing myself to update my game. Update bugs, new version, update bugs, etc. I am actually not mad about that, whatever, that is how betas are. So I wait for a release. There hasn't been a release since 2004, and I waiting for the next one. Then I will make my game on the official release and I will work around the bugs (as I know we can't get rid of them all), just like I did with 2.10. But, I just need an official release.

So, every year was going by, and we keep on hearing different things from the developers. Official release is 3 months (2006), after this addition we will focus to the official release, etc. etc. It is now 2010, 6 years after an official release, and we are still waiting. Yes, I am sorry, that we are impatient. But can you really blame us. Especially because we seem to be getting lied to. I just want someone to say, this is what we still need to add, and this is the estimated time. Instead of just ignoring us.

What I put together to create a timeline myself is this. Large Mode still has some additions needed to be added (old topic), and after that then they would go to the official release. That was more than a year ago. So, I check the ZC log every day, to see if those additions were put in. Still no, so I am thinking, that whenever that is done, probably 6 months of testing after that and then a release.

But I still want to hear some sort of plan, a timeline if you will, on 2.5. When do you think it will be done? What do you still need to add? How much time do you think that will take?

And those are just serious questions. I think we deserve to know, then rather being left in the dark and brushed off by: "Soon". I like to work with deadlines and timelines, I will help test if there was one, but honestly, I actually don't think there is a official release in my lifetime because that is how in the dark I feel, so I don't want put my time and effort if I don't think it will mean anything. I just need some sort of feedback, but I probably will still get the cold shoulder.

[Joe123]

ALL the major quest builders of old are waiting for that release
Players are waiting for the quest builders.

Some of us newer members know what we're doing too.

[Pineconn]

I'd be ultra-willing to test rigorously if a timeline were set, or a plan initiated. Right now everything is in limbo (as it's been for 4 years), but if an honest effort were initiated to get this done, we could do it quickly. Hopefully there are enough devs...

[pkmnfrk]

I'd be ultra-willing to test rigorously if a timeline were set, or a plan initiated. Right now everything is in limbo (as it's been for 4 years), but if an honest effort were initiated to get this done, we could do it quickly. Hopefully there are enough devs...

Why not test now, like I am, and like others are?

Pineconn, I've filed several bugs based on playing through your quests. You could do a world of good just by playing through them in 2.5 and filing bugs!

[Freedom]

Why not test now, like I am, and like others are?

Pineconn, I've filed several bugs based on playing through your quests. You could do a world of good just by playing through them in 2.5 and filing bugs!

been there done that, and then more is added or changed and those very same bugs are reintroduced.
How many times do you plug a tire before you say this is BS and go get another one less troublesome?

Until a concerted effort is made to fix bugs and ONLY bugs and add no more and make no more changes, then what is the point?

[pkmnfrk]

Believe me, I want this release to happen too. I do wish they'd do a feature freeze as well, but there are certain things that are left half-implemented, which would arguably be worse! If people work around a half-baked feature, then suddenly it becomes difficult to fully implement it, because it would break every quest that worked around it.

Or, they could drop those features, but that's not possible in some cases, and would provoke responses like "They killed a feature I relied on, how the fuck am I supposed to build a quest if everything keeps changing?!"

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

But, rest assured, I want a stable release as much as anyone else.

[Freedom]

Believe me, I want this release to happen too. I do wish they'd do a feature freeze as well, but there are certain things that are left half-implemented, which would arguably be worse! If people work around a half-baked feature, then suddenly it becomes difficult to fully implement it, because it would break every quest that worked around it.

Or, they could drop those features, but that's not possible in some cases, and would provoke responses like "They killed a feature I relied on, how the fuck am I supposed to build a quest if everything keeps changing?!"

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

But, rest assured, I want a stable release as much as anyone else.

Thanks for making my point.
We were told we were within 2 weeks of a stable release back with the 211b10b
I just checked, that was in 2005.
The half implemented things you speak of didn't even exist then, now because they do, I guess another 5 years is in order to get it up and running.

[Pineconn]

Why not test now, like I am, and like others are?

Pineconn, I've filed several bugs based on playing through your quests. You could do a world of good just by playing through them in 2.5 and filing bugs!

Trust me, this is how I tested for bugs, too. Half of them are so complicated that the devs just let them rot. My latest slew of bugs was deleted in the forum's lastest hack, also, and I don't remember what was fixed or not.

[Anthus]

After reading through this thread, I've come to realize people are right. At the rate it is going, it's likely ZC will never be finished. I really wish they would stop adding features, and to be honest, scripting has to to be the worst thing added. It is a mess, and will constantly need updating, and checking for consistency with older versions, which when certain outstanding bugs get fixed, this would break some quests relying on older scripting mechanics. People would bitch about broken scripts and quests, and as long as there are always updates, this will always happen. As far as features go, it's the same thing. If something that an older version relies on is changed, then bam, quest broken. This happened with one of my projects, when I realized that for some reason, permanent triggers aren't actually permanent in dungeons, or whatever it was. This was a game stopping bug that prevented me from completing a dungeon in Zelda TD. I did find a work around, but still, I'm sure it will be undone.

As much as I like the new stuff (except scripting) it is making alienating the user base, and slowing the progress of something we were supposed to get four years ago.