almost bug free?

[Freedom]

I've been playing around with 1099 the last few days and find it to be far from anywhere close to bug free.
Why the 1099 you ask, because the 1121 crashes every 5 minutes.

Jman said the new betas were close to bug free...
which versions would those be?

It's a bug infested piece of....
well you know the rest, it ain't bug free, it's just not getting tested anymore because you ran all the testers off when they realized they weren't going to get rewarded for their hard work with a stable release.

been what.... 3 years now?

there's my rant.... I'll check back again in another 50 versions or so, good luck.

[XMuppetSB]

Yeah, I too have been experiencing random crashes in both ZC and ZQuest for the last several builds.
If the developers don't find a way to fix these random crashes, they would be admitting defeat, just like they did when 2.10 was infamously released with still so many (old and new) bugs in it, and I seriously don't want to see the developers admit defeat again. In other words, we would not want to see an unstable final 2.5.
Besides, I think that all the random crashes that have been happening in both ZC and Zquest for no reason are due to none other than a memory leak.

[Anthus]

I think it might be your computer then. Build 1089 runs just fine for me (on my laptop). It has not crashed once on my laptop, and I actually use it quiet a bit (contrary to quest progress). The only issue I have is if I run ZQ in big mode in full screen, it botches some of the colors. However, this is a Windows issue, not a ZC issue, and it can be fixed by Right clicking ZQ-> Compatibility-> 'Run in 256 colors'. That works for the player as well, which runs in full screen just fine too. So seriously, instead of whining about how many bugs you have encountered, see what you can do on your end first. The devs work hard enough, and they don't need to be told that their product is a "Bug infested piece of.."

I made a topic expressing my thanks to the devs. This is a free program. You get what you pay for, for better or for worse.

I don't see why you make these posts when you know how they'll be received. It would be different if you actually, I dunno, maybe tried to report some of these issues instead of throwing a temper tantrum every time. To be frank, why don't take some wisdom from the proverb, "If you can't say something nice (or in this case, constructive) then why say anything at all?"

[Freedom]

Nothing wrong with my computer, and I've spent years of my life testing and reporting bugs.
Have you?
The problem remains the same, instead of trying to fix what is there, more things get added and existing things get changed, and the program remains the same, no more than a graphics play toy.
My posts, as you say, may not be well received, but they've turned out to be prophetic, exactly what I said would happen almost 3 years ago, has happened.

Let me put it this way for you Anthus...
I have 2 quests in my computer here, with over 2 years of hard work combined in the two.
One of them was close to release with the 211-10b, and moving it to the b12 corrupted it beyond repair, so I started another which meant going back to an older version of my tileset and then having to update it to where I now was.
The nature of the corruption was such that it also got my back ups, because it was in the combos and wasn't noticed right away.
Just last night with the 1099 it almost happened again, to the newer of the two quests.
The program may be free, but if it continues to destroy years of work, then it is overpriced at that.
I give my quests away for free too.
If I decide to adopt your attitude, then that tells me that it's ok for me to release them buggy as hell, so instead of people enjoying them, they just end up frustrated beyond belief, and then when they get frustrated my reply can be... "hey, what the fuck did you expect... it's free"
I guess you haven't noticed the growing lack of interest, the bug forums get less posts in a week then they used to get in a day, and there hasn't been any notable quests released in a long while.

I really would like to release this quest one day, but I guess you're right, bitching hasn't worked, helping hasn't worked, and being silent hasn't worked, so I guess that only leaves acceptance that it's just never going to happen.

[Anthus]

I can't say I entirely disagree with you, its just your way of insulting the developers. As for back-ups, I actually tend to duplicate the quest file manually, and give it a new name. This completely separates it from the whole thing. The only problem is if the corrupting factor exists before hand, and it triggered by something, then it is always there. Either way, backing up is kinda like a bullet proof vest. Bad shit still happens, so don't get a false sense of security.

But seriously, I can understand your frustration. As I already, I just think it is rude to say things in such a way about the program, even if it is what you feel is true. Also, I don't think they are adding any more new features, and I don't think they have for quite sometime. The last big thing added was probably Big Mode, but I actually don't follow updates as much as I used to, so I could be wrong.

[Freedom]

you're right, what's the point in complaining, all been said before, and didn't matter then either.

[Nicholas Steel]

The backup system should have no limit on the number of backups that can be created at any time. Instead of having say a total of 10 backups, the limit should be set to 9,999,999,999 backups. Aside from being able to create backups it shouldn't be able to interact with backup files until the user requests it to do so.

Maybe create backups as read only? that way after they are made, they can't be changed at a later point making them a truer backup?

[rocksfan13]

I side with Freedom on this one.
I too was a victim of Quest corruption and was very pissed that I had to redo everything over again. The total lack of quest admissions, at least in the betas, in disconcerting. They still come in 2.10 and lower. But I haven't seen anything in a beta for about 2 years now.
It's about time we stop trying to add things and get down and clean up whats already there. Stabilize it there first then add if need be.
I do believe the testers are very frustrated and have "run away". Which gives the effect of what Freedom implies. Total lack of posting issues. Only the hope and prospect of a stable release may bring them back. Maybe a hypothetical date would work. But we've been down that road too.
I appreciate what the devs do. I really do. It's hard work and there's no profit in it for them. Only the joy of creation.
I salute them for it. But people are growing impatient. Empty promises fuel the fire of discord.
Make a promise and stick to it. It may bring people back to it again.

[Anthus]

I pretty much agree here. it's just the way of wording it. As I said, I do think they are working on hammering out the new features as opposed to adding more new features.

[pkmnfrk]

The backup system should have no limit on the number of backups that can be created at any time. Instead of having say a total of 10 backups, the limit should be set to 9,999,999,999 backups.

That would be the worst thing ever. Imagine when people start complaining that they have 200 Gigs of backups, and now they don't have any room for other stuff!

Anyway. Let me tell you this. It's been a long long time since I needed to use one of the backups, and I've had timed backups turned off for a long time (since they're so obtrusive). I'm far more worried about corruption in my ZC.sav file than in my quests.

Obviously, it's still a concern down the road, so perhaps a better proposal tuned to the way I suspect most people work (Open ZQuest, modify quest, save, open ZC, test, F6 quit, modify quest, save, test, etc.) is in order:

Create a "special" backup when the quest is opened or saved the first time in a session, and set it aside. Then, each time you save, create a normal backup. If you notice corruption, you can roll back to the speical backup which will be there forever, if you never close ZQuest.

I've been playing around with 1099 the last few days and find it to be far from anywhere close to bug free.
Why the 1099 you ask, because the 1121 crashes every 5 minutes.

Jman said the new betas were close to bug free...
which versions would those be?

It's a bug infested piece of....
well you know the rest, it ain't bug free, it's just not getting tested anymore because you ran all the testers off when they realized they weren't going to get rewarded for their hard work with a stable release.

been what.... 3 years now?

there's my rant.... I'll check back again in another 50 versions or so, good luck.

As for bugs in the engine, I agree that it's not bugfree. And, more than the "it will never be bug free, stop bitching" level, too. And, more than it was the last time you posted this thread. However, I trust they will stop making large sweeping changes, and focus on fixing bugs soon, right?

Anyway, I always run the latest beta, so that I can find bugs and report them. Anyone running an old beta is not doing anyone a favour by doing so. Bugs get fixed, new ones get introduced, it's the cycle of software development! *cue lion king music*

I don't find this extended period between releases particularly bad for two reasons:

1. We're getting interim builds to test stuff and report bugs, because...
2. Previous releases have not exactly been bug-free. Everyone of them has had show-stopping bugs (the crash-the-second-time-you-look-at-the-map bug, the DMap continue bug, the midi-instruments-are-fucked bug) which I don't want to see in an eventual 2.5 release.

Okay, random stream of thoughts, over.