Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy

[Aegix Drakan]

Honestly, I don't care if Iran gets erm...

"Taken care of". The shit that goes on in there... When the penalty for BEING raped is death (or lashes, IF you're lucky), then I think we have a problem.

[The_Amaster]

Iran has been a thorn in our side for decades now, and they still haven't done anything. Now, I am not saying they wont, but I am saying that I think we're past the point where we should jump every time they say "boo!"

[Anthus]

Seriously, if I were the President, I would just carpet nuke the fuck out of North Korea right now. Fuck that shit hole of a country and its evil dictatorship. They are evil. Their population is already the walking dead because of the tyrants who rule them. Just solve the whole problem at once.

No seriously, I totally agree. I think we need to wipe out that whole fucking middle east area too. All in all, these places are gonna fuck us up, with there imaginary friends and big bombs.

Call it naive, and say I have a lack of understanding, but fuck it, it is how I feel. Wipe. Them. Out.

[rock_nog]

You know, Iran has some good people, I think, but their government is totally FUBAR. I still hold out hope that one day, the youth movement will rise up and put those assholes in their place. God I hate political conflicts. Do you really think your average Joe Blow Persian on the street really cares all that much about the Iran/US conflict? No, they just wanna live their lives, but government assholes go around brainwashing them to believe that America is the root of all their problems. Ever since the revolution, they've been blaming us for every single goddamn problem in their country, so of course they hate us. I will admit, it doesn't help that we openly supported the Shah, and we supported Iraq in the Iraq-Iran War, but dammit, they might as well blame allergies and ED on us.

North Korea is even more astounding - not only is religion not the factor that it is in Iran, but Kim Jong Il's complete incompetence and I'd argue utter insanity has resulted in untold suffering in his own people. How the hell does he do it? Jesus, he's gotta be running the anti-US propaganda machine 24/7 to keep the people from rising up and hanging his ass with piano wire.

[Nicholas Steel]

the best defense is a good offense.

Isn't that because everything worth defending is a part of the offensive?

[rock_nog]

Isn't that because everything worth defending is a part of the offensive?

Consider the first Death Star. It would've been impossible for the Rebels to devise some kind of shield to repel the Death Star's primary attack, but by attacking first, they were able to destroy the Death Star and thus neatly avoid the whole problem.

[biggiy05]

Iran has been a thorn in our side for decades now, and they still haven't done anything. Now, I am not saying they wont, but I am saying that I think we're past the point where we should jump every time they say "boo!"

The problem is that the threat is becoming more serious. The day we don't jump when they say "boo" is the day we have a nuke pointing at us. We are the "top dog" when it comes to waging war. Everyone looks at us to come bail them out or make the first move when someone gets bullied.

Consider the first Death Star. It would've been impossible for the Rebels to devise some kind of shield to repel the Death Star's primary attack, but by attacking first, they were able to destroy the Death Star and thus neatly avoid the whole problem.

Nice analogy.

[Nicholas Steel]

Yes, nice analogy lawl.

[AlphaDawg]

Be afraid, linguine-spined libs, be very afraid... if the US doesn't strike Iran, Israel has made it no secret that they will. Because unlike a majority of us Americans (proof is in our President) Israel puts their self-preservation above all else.

I only agree with Bill O'Reilly about 85% of the time, but he was 100% right last night... how in the hell can this massive ship get overtaken by FOUR pirates in dinghies? By sailing totally unarmed and without any form of security detail, that's how. As the Angry Video Game Nerd might say, what were they thinking?

[AtmaWeapon]

Nice analogy.

Actually, bad analogy. It seems nice because it agrees with your point. But the problem is you, like many people, are looking at the problem from the eyes of someone who either isn't aware of or willfully ignores the complexity of the situation.

In Star Wars, there was good and there was evil: the Rebel Alliance and the Empire. Everyone else was a bystander not interested in the fight. If the Empire had succeeded in destroying the Yavin base, we were led to believe that there was no one else that would threaten the Empire. The rebels were a small, underpowered group against a larger force with infinite money, infinite manpower, superior weaponry, and superior tactics due to magical future-seeing Sith. Darth Vader is the only counterpoint to the statement that there was no one in the Star Wars universe that acted on some motivation other than "Is this good?" or "Is this evil?" and would choose an action counter to their alignment. The novels don't count, they were intended to explore these issues and even the novels for the films don't go into the depth that the others do.

In the real world, good is on positive infinity and evil is on negative infinity, and every entity in the world is somewhere on the line between the two. An entity doesn't even have a concrete place on the line, as to one person a great man could be evil incarnate (consider how we felt about Great Britain during the American Revolution vs. how the average British citizen felt about them; who was right?) If Iran is the Galactic Empire and blows up Yavin 4 (America) with their Death Star (nukes), there are a large number of other, larger entities (Russia, China, all of Europe) that would suddenly feel threatened; it's not like Iran plays nice with many people.

It's not even like we're the idealist and underpowered rebellion against the powerful Empire of Iran; they've got one Death Star, a Corellian Cruiser, and a squadron of X-Wings. We've got 100 Death Stars, two fleets of Super Star Destroyers, and hundreds of squadrons of TIE fighters, TIE defenders, and TIE bombers. On top of that, in a nukeseath Star destructive power comparison we have the equivalent of four planets worth of land while they occupy a satellite base orbiting a barren moon; the entirety of their arsenal would only damage a percentage of our resources before they die off from attrition. If you asked the average citizen of the world how accurate this analogy is, they'd tell you that you have it backwards: the US is the Galactic Empire with limitless power, forcing its will upon the masses while Iran is the Rebel Alliance, a ragtag group of perky kids that are out to prevent the Empire from oppressing one more person.

On top of that, you have the rest of the world, which is like a Galactic Council that didn't exist in Star Wars. Russia's got 50 death stars and a few fleets of fighters. The U.K. can field a dozen death stars and a handful of capital ships. Spain's got death stars. China's got millions of clone troopers, several planets of their own, (possibly) death stars, capital ships and cruisers. India's similar to China. North Korea's got a death star. All of these people have interests and worries of their own; if either Iran or the US starts slinging nukes at each other, all of these countries are going to feel threatened and respond in unpredictable, possibly irrational ways.

Think about it, seriously. If Iran shoots first, the rest of the world feels like they're an unstable threat and there'd probably be a group of countries that would obliterate them in self-defense. If we shoot first, to the world we're the evil Empire who is saying, "You do not have a culture or lifestyle compatible with our goals, we have decided to destroy you and your culture and take your land for ours." This would destabilize the political climate even more and probably lead to someone like Russia or China declaring open hostility on us; after all, how do they know they aren't next? Why do you think Iran wants us to shoot first so bad? They want us to be destroyed, and don't care if they have to die in the process.

The Empire made the attack on Yavin not because they liked blowing up planets but because the Rebel Alliance was a threat and victory would have silenced rebellion for an entire era. The Rebels were a thorn in the Empire's side and the Empire was tired of jumping every time an X-Wing said "boo!" The Rebel Alliance fought back because they had no way to move in time to avoid destruction; they were backed into a corner and it was a suicide battle because they had no choice. Looking at it from this direction, do you think it would be wise for America, with near-infinite resources, to attack Iran, a small country with no allies and nowhere to run?

There's not a good answer to the question, "What do we do about Iran?" Any choice we make leads to bad circumstances. We can't pick the "best" choice because all of the circumstances depend on how the world interprets our actions. We want to be safe and we don't want anyone to die; the goals are mutually exclusive. If we leave them be, eventually they may attack us; we'll destroy them but we'll take damage. If we attack them without provocation, we'll destroy them but risk making enemies of more powerful people; what if Russia or China with all of their resources became the new Iran? I'm going to die either way, and I'd rather be remembered as the guy who shot back while bleeding than for starting a fight I couldn't finish.

Simplifying the problem to "it's them or us" is how we got here in the first place. Don't be so ignorant as to ignore complexity again and make it worse.